Decoded (OP)
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give me your cryptos
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November 24, 2016, 09:43:40 AM |
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Hey guys, I was trying to sell my Karambit Doppler (Just a CSGO thing you guys), and someone approached me, offering to purchase it in bitcoin. Being the crypto-lover I am, I went through with it. He without hesitation sent first, which impressed me. The problem was, straight away, he demanded for my knife. I told him to wait for a confirmation. Not a few seconds later, he double-spent the transaction. Knew it. Here's my chat logs: Never tell your password to anyone. യRagnar★Walzerയ: hi man Whyte: Hi യRagnar★Walzerയ: kara യRagnar★Walzerയ: you sell him? Whyte: yes യRagnar★Walzerയ: how cost? Whyte: 140 keys യRagnar★Walzerയ: i pay 0.43 bitcoin യRagnar★Walzerയ: now it 316$ യRagnar★Walzerയ: I send money first, so that you are not worried! Whyte: 0.45 and deal യRagnar★Walzerയ: hmm യRagnar★Walzerയ: i sec യRagnar★Walzerയ: i check again യRagnar★Walzerയ: ok man Whyte: yeah Whyte: So send 0.45 BTC to 1fdFgrw59gczh96esrpJST6MVHyQm4VJK യRagnar★Walzerയ: As soon as I send the money, you'll send me a knife? യRagnar★Walzerയ: You won't leave me? യRagnar★Walzerയ is now Online. യRagnar★Walzerയ: I'm waiting Whyte: oh sorry Whyte: yeah deal യRagnar★Walzerയ: i send money Whyte: ok യRagnar★Walzerയ: man യRagnar★Walzerയ: you see money? Whyte: yes Whyte: you see fee? യRagnar★Walzerയ: send me knife man Whyte: 373 satoshi Whyte: let it confirm first :) Whyte: Im not a bitcoin newbie you know Whyte has changed their name to FROSTWOLF YOUVE RDMED ME TWICE. യRagnar★Walzerയ: ok man FROSTWOLF YOUVE RDMED ME TWICE has changed their name to WhyteWhyte. യRagnar★Walzerയ: i wate my knife WhyteWhyte: I'll keep rebroadcasting it anyways and ill send you a trade offer when it goes through യRagnar★Walzerയ: ok man. i wate.and I hope you did not throw WhyteWhyte: If I was I would have already unfriended you WhyteWhyte: ooh nice double spend WhyteWhyte: you're good യRagnar★Walzerയ is now Online. യRagnar★Walzerയ: Thanks man! Success യRagnar★Walzerയ: %) യRagnar★Walzerയ is now Offline. WhyteWhyte has changed their name to Whyte. Here's the transaction, it will probably disappear, we'll see. https://blockchain.info/tx-index/192361503Take care guys.
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looking for a signature campaign, dm me for that
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superiorus
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Bitcoiner since start, and continue to love it!
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November 24, 2016, 10:00:26 AM |
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Warning! this transaction is a double spend. You should be extremely careful when trusting any transactions to/from this sender. Well, that's why we always wait for minimum 1 confirmation ... or use a escrow. There are over 60k unconfirmed transactions in blockchain now. Stay safe!
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X-ray
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November 24, 2016, 10:26:05 AM |
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This is the strong reason for waiting 1 confirmation and if you had see almost all of webshop around the world which accepts bitcoin always requiring to wait until atleast 1 confirmation or even more for a transaction to be considered finish or done. and by the way see that fees sending 0.45 bitcoin with only 373 satoshi as a fee would potentially rejected by the network
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
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MadGamer
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November 24, 2016, 10:28:16 AM |
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At least you didn't fall for the scam. If the user you was going to trade with is on the forums then you should post his profile , that way some DefaultTrust members will give him a negative trust and you should move this to scam accusation too.
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iamTom123
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November 24, 2016, 10:33:47 AM |
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This is the strong reason for waiting 1 confirmation and if you had see almost all of webshop around the world which accepts bitcoin always requiring to wait until atleast 1 confirmation or even more for a transaction to be considered finish or done. and by the way see that fees sending 0.45 bitcoin with only 373 satoshi as a fee would potentially rejected by the network
Indeed, we have to wait for at least one confirmation. The system is there so there is no reason not to take advantage of that. We should always be careful when dealing with online transaction as we can not be sure if the other guy is a good customer or someone just pretending to be.
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neochiny
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November 26, 2016, 06:39:53 AM |
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Heh. Nice. Guess he thought it was worth a try. He must think people are idiots. Who would ever fall for such a thing. lol.
And yep, always wait for confirmation, I personally require at least 4 - 6 confirms when dealing with someone and as far as I know, only online casino can afford to accept zero confirm (for deposits since they control the withdrawals anyway).
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ranochigo
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November 26, 2016, 07:02:04 AM Last edit: November 26, 2016, 07:56:43 AM by ranochigo |
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Just inspected the raw transaction and I can see why this happened.
By right, it isn't this easy for someone to just send a transaction that conflicts with another transaction in the mempool and have it propagated through the network. However, the original transaction in question have a sequence that is less than 0xfffffffd and thus it flags for opt-in RBF. Bitcoin Core will not propagate transactions that have inputs listed as spent but will replace transactions that has Opt-IN RBF enabled.
Always check for fees, propagation and whether Opt-in RBF is enabled. If the transaction is of an significant amount, PLEASE wait for at least a confirmation.
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Qartersa
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November 26, 2016, 07:54:06 AM |
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Good thing you waited before you sent the item to him, OP. Thank you for putting this out too, this is a good warning to people dealing with this kind of deals. Bitcoin is such a complicated thing, and I never knew that sending a transaction can be canceled. All this time, I thought once you send the Bitcoins it's done and nothing we can do about it anymore.
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Invulner
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Invulner
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November 26, 2016, 08:24:40 AM |
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Good that you checked the fee. 0.45 BTC would have been a heck of a loss for you or for anyone, especially when you are dealing with someone that you don't know well from a scammer-rich platform like Steam.
Anyways the safest way is to just wait for 1 conf... Stay safe.
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Pursuer
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Where is my ring of blades...
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November 28, 2016, 08:35:28 AM |
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this is the way to teach a lesson to scammers who double spend. as soon as you made sure he is a scammer and had double spent the inputs you should do these before the other tx is confirmed: 1) make a CPFP transaction 2) add a big ass fee for example for this transaction of 0.45BTC since mempool was full you could include 0.001-0.005BTC 3) contact Quickseller or macbook-air and ask them to include your CPFP transaction in a block 4) give the scammer a middle finger instead of product.
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Only Bitcoin
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audaciousbeing
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November 28, 2016, 11:40:56 AM |
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I am happy for you that you didn't fall for the scam I had learned about this when I had tried to reverse a wrong transaction but didn't understand it until now and even don't know people can be this ingenius when it comes to doing wrong thing. But now I have understand and thank you for sharing and also debunking the myth that Bitcoin is not reversible.
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ranochigo
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November 28, 2016, 12:35:42 PM Last edit: November 28, 2016, 12:56:37 PM by ranochigo |
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this is the way to teach a lesson to scammers who double spend. as soon as you made sure he is a scammer and had double spent the inputs you should do these before the other tx is confirmed: 1) make a CPFP transaction 2) add a big ass fee for example for this transaction of 0.45BTC since mempool was full you could include 0.001-0.005BTC 3) contact Quickseller or macbook-air and ask them to include your CPFP transaction in a block 4) give the scammer a middle finger instead of product.
The problem is that this isn't a normal transaction. Usually, the transaction will not be replaced as long as you rebroadcast it over and over again. However, since it has a opt-in replace-by-fee flag, nodes will be able to replace this transaction. CPFP will not work in this place since the original transaction can be replaced if it is unconfirmed. There isn't that many miners that adopts CPFP anyway.
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mace15
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November 28, 2016, 01:53:24 PM |
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Thanks for the information. This is a really big help to anyone who got scam before. We should not give an easy trust to anyone we dont know. So, this is warning to others also.
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Pursuer
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Where is my ring of blades...
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November 28, 2016, 02:43:08 PM |
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this is the way to teach a lesson to scammers who double spend. as soon as you made sure he is a scammer and had double spent the inputs you should do these before the other tx is confirmed: 1) make a CPFP transaction 2) add a big ass fee for example for this transaction of 0.45BTC since mempool was full you could include 0.001-0.005BTC 3) contact Quickseller or macbook-air and ask them to include your CPFP transaction in a block 4) give the scammer a middle finger instead of product.
The problem is that this isn't a normal transaction. Usually, the transaction will not be replaced as long as you rebroadcast it over and over again. However, since it has a opt-in replace-by-fee flag, nodes will be able to replace this transaction. CPFP will not work in this place since the original transaction can be replaced if it is unconfirmed. There isn't that many miners that adopts CPFP anyway. technically speaking (not that I am an expert ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) ) a transaction with RBF flag is just another transaction in the mempool that miners can pick up and include in the blocks and there is nothing dictating they should not include this one or the next one based on the sequence in it. besides as you said not many nodes or even miners have implemented this. double besides as I have said your transaction would be an special one because you can contact those two guys and tell them someone is trying to scam you by double spending and take your payment.
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Only Bitcoin
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ranochigo
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November 28, 2016, 03:31:59 PM |
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technically speaking (not that I am an expert ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) ) a transaction with RBF flag is just another transaction in the mempool that miners can pick up and include in the blocks and there is nothing dictating they should not include this one or the next one based on the sequence in it. Nodes will drop the one with the lower fee out of the mempool and the one with the higher fee will be in the mempool. If you send a transaction that can replace the previous transaction, most miners and nodes will drop the other transaction and include newer one. besides as you said not many nodes or even miners have implemented this. double besides as I have said your transaction would be an special one because you can contact those two guys and tell them someone is trying to scam you by double spending and take your payment.
I was talking about CPFP. Nodes who have upgraded would have opt in RBF enabled. Timing. How sure are you that the previous transaction will not be included in a block before the replacement transaction gets included by other miners? Besides, they don't have to help you.
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Deep In The Mines LLC
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November 28, 2016, 07:38:33 PM |
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Wise of you to wait for 1 confirmation at minimum, Steam has far too many scammers but am surprised he targeted you for Bitcoins, did you list in your Steam Profile that you trade in Bitcoins? how did he find out?
Hopefully while trying to scam he might end up failing his double spend and backfiring on him.
But damn, now am curious about how much CSGO knifes cost, you were trying to sell one for around 300 there, cosmetic in-game items have reached new price heights it seems.
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Deep In The Mines LLC Cryptocurrency miners, power supplies, breakout boards and accessories! Authorized Biostar and Silverstone Reseller.
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BettorChain.com
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December 01, 2016, 02:18:36 AM |
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Thank you for alerting the community of this scam attempt. We really have to pay attention to the transaction not confirmed, they can be dangerous.
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iram3130
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ITSMYNE 🚀 Talk NFTs, Trade NFTs 🚀
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December 01, 2016, 11:46:16 AM |
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Newbies to the BTC should understand the concept of confirmations. As far as I have seen new lovers of BTC think it like a paypal transaction which is not true and you need to know the system before you start using it. Thank you for sharing a good information. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Playboi
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December 01, 2016, 06:05:59 PM |
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Hey guys, I was trying to sell my Karambit Doppler (Just a CSGO thing you guys), and someone approached me, offering to purchase it in
Is there somewhere on this site to read more about 'double spends'? I have never heard about it before. What exactly is it? Unfortunately, i read through the thread and it doesn't make sense to me
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eternalgloom
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December 02, 2016, 05:37:27 PM |
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Heh. Nice. Guess he thought it was worth a try. He must think people are idiots. Who would ever fall for such a thing. lol.
And yep, always wait for confirmation, I personally require at least 4 - 6 confirms when dealing with someone and as far as I know, only online casino can afford to accept zero confirm (for deposits since they control the withdrawals anyway).
I think there are enough people who'd still fall for it. And also, even for online casinos it's better to wait for at least 1 confirmation to credit deposits, since you'd be able to try your luck and gamble for free if you're able to just double spend if you lose your deposit.
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