Anyone from ITALY want to comment on BTC and bad banks?

[OROBTC]

...

Over the past few days I have been reading about really know what's going re various Italian banks (up to eight of them) being in big trouble, and that a referendum coming up re Renzi might affect them.

I don't really know what's going on (on vacation), but it sounds perilous, even for German banks.  Which would affect everybody as Deutsche Bank is so important because it is so big.

Yet I have seen no reaction in BTC price.

Would anyone from Italy care to comment on:

1) How serious is this Italian bank problem and the consequences of the upcoming vote?

2) I see that Bitcoin price has not gone anywhere since we went on vacation.  Is BTC catching on in Italy?


Molto Grazie!

[1715336784]

1715336784

[1715336784]

1715336784

[1715336784]

1715336784

[1715336784]

1715336784

[1715336784]

1715336784

[alyssa85]

I'm interested in the answer too.

I know that Italy has 9 bitcoin ATM machines:

http://coinatmradar.com/country/105/bitcoin-atm-italy/

and that money has been flowing out of Italy:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/investors-pulling-capital-out-of-italy-ahead-of-referendum-2016-11-23

but it is not clear where the money is going.

[bitbollo]

...

Over the past few days I have been reading about really know what's going re various Italian banks (up to eight of them) being in big trouble, and that a referendum coming up re Renzi might affect them.

I don't really know what's going on (on vacation), but it sounds perilous, even for German banks.  Which would affect everybody as Deutsche Bank is so important because it is so big.

Yet I have seen no reaction in BTC price.

Would anyone from Italy care to comment on:

1) How serious is this Italian bank problem and the consequences of the upcoming vote?

2) I see that Bitcoin price has not gone anywhere since we went on vacation.  Is BTC catching on in Italy?


Molto Grazie!

Just my opinion, I have followed some news on tv and local newspapers, talk with some friends, but nothing more...

1) Local Newspapers doesn't have analyzed directly this issue, but just reported news from others reference.
Probably there isn't nobody really worried about it. Most of people see this referendum aka a "choice" for the actual prime minister (M. Renzi) and not a referendum linked with money stability.

2) I don't think people will use btc for their credits, normally people here decide to adopt other ways for "move currency" out from.

[chesatochi]

Bonjourno

I don't know what happens in Italy with the 8 banks you are talking about, but I will be happy to know more about the situation as well if the price will increase.

Sometimes the price will change or fluctuate for a simple bad news or good news, the bitcoin is very volatile.

[Kprawn]

This is not just in Italy my friend, it's all over. Since Brexit we have been seeing a downward spiral in the global economy. I spoke to a Banker

the other day and he was not very optimistic about his future in the banking sector. The elections in the USA has also sent some bad vibes out

into the financial industry, and everyone is waiting to see what is going to happen with Donald Trump. Was Italy not part of the PIGS countries

in the previous banking crisis?

[TheMinex]

...

Over the past few days I have been reading about really know what's going re various Italian banks (up to eight of them) being in big trouble, and that a referendum coming up re Renzi might affect them.

I don't really know what's going on (on vacation), but it sounds perilous, even for German banks.  Which would affect everybody as Deutsche Bank is so important because it is so big.

Yet I have seen no reaction in BTC price.

Would anyone from Italy care to comment on:

1) How serious is this Italian bank problem and the consequences of the upcoming vote?

2) I see that Bitcoin price has not gone anywhere since we went on vacation.  Is BTC catching on in Italy?


Molto Grazie!

I try to answer briefly

1) Italian bank problem is serius, MPS is now try trying to convert LT2 bonds to cover an IPO ( commanded by BCE) estimated between 5 an 6 Bln (so you can understand that this bank is no so small). If this maneuver will fail, probably bail-in rule will be applied. Bail-in will drag money from deposits over 100k, stocks, uncovered bonds. Funny thing is that the "warranty fund" for deposits under 100K exist only virtually.
Upcoming vote has been relied on banks problems on newspaper only 1 day ago, this is because the vote is (not only) about senate's election and composition ( now is democratically elected and every people over 40 can be elected, if yes wins, regional councils will have the power to choose it from mayors that composed it, which, in my eyes is an auto-election from an elitè ) so bank-vote is not very related ( only relation I can see is that if governament sability will be missed (vote NO option selected), there won't be enough time to handle such emergencies ).

2) Italy has large old aged population (devoted to family's savings, or what remains, which rapresent about 60% of overall public debt ) with ultra high unemployment rate for people aged under 24 (40%).
BTC is catching but at low rate. Some independent private bankers are starting to work with it as a solution for the incoming capital destruction (or requisition if there is some sort of slight difference).

[Meuh6879]

... because they already in BAD situation like Greek people.

[yayayo]

This is not just in Italy my friend, it's all over. Since Brexit we have been seeing a downward spiral in the global economy.
[...]

Exactly. A negative outcome of the referendum will spark panic all across the EU and maybe even on world markets. Everything is intertwined and Italy is not the only country with an excessive burden of debt.

What we are seeing in front of our eyes is the end of the EU and the recommencement of the debt crisis. It's very difficult to predict how long this process might take - the ECB already has announced to intervene - but the collapse is a certainty in my eyes. People are fed up with the arrogance of the ruling class and constant harassment by a never ending flow of arbitrary laws and regulations. The recommencement of the debt crisis will only amplify the anger.

We're living at a remarkable point in history. It's the transition from state controlled fiat trash money to the free market money Bitcoin, which will be fueled by fiat inflation.

ya.ya.yo!

[Gunthar]

You can read more on this topic in this article (the english version of one of the biggest newspaper in Italy where i live)
http://www.lastampa.it/2016/11/28/esteri/lastampa-in-english/if-no-vote-wins-on-december-eight-italian-banks-risk-failing-financial-times-warns-evFQNDMKls0vgd7zSYVY9J/pagina.html

Hopes it helps
~Gun

[chennan]

This is not just in Italy my friend, it's all over. Since Brexit we have been seeing a downward spiral in the global economy.
[...]

Exactly. A negative outcome of the referendum will spark panic all across the EU and maybe even on world markets. Everything is intertwined and Italy is not the only country with an excessive burden of debt.

What we are seeing in front of our eyes is the end of the EU and the recommencement of the debt crisis. It's very difficult to predict how long this process might take - the ECB already has announced to intervene - but the collapse is a certainty in my eyes. People are fed up with the arrogance of the ruling class and constant harassment by a never ending flow of arbitrary laws and regulations. The recommencement of the debt crisis will only amplify the anger.

We're living at a remarkable point in history. It's the transition from state controlled fiat trash money to the free market money Bitcoin, which will be fueled by fiat inflation.

ya.ya.yo!

It's important to note, that the global economy simply has to change in some form within the next 20-30 years or so in my opinion.  Whether if it becomes a pure crypto-global-capitalist economy or a Utopian future where money doesn't necessarily matter; something has got to give.

I can definitely see a world that nations that cling hard to capitalism such as the US or even the EU fighting for ways to keep their position as a dominant global force; no matter if they have to give up power of controlling the money supply either...

For some reason I keep thinking that it's going to be inevitable that there has to be a point in human history where we have to decide if we are going to radically change, or not, in order to survive as a human species.  Capitalism was a good system when we had "infinite" supply of resources and a huge need for people to work on farms and that sort of thing; but now it's proven to be extremely wasteful.  The majority of work is being done by machines and machines are progressing to be machines that "think" and have potential to take over professional jobs and can make all humans worthless in the work force.

If you can imagine a world that is a replica of the one we live on now, and all the rules were wiped clean and we needed a fresh beginning... your first thought wouldn't be to make as much money as possible... it would be to collaborate with other humans and try to live a comfortable life with little to no suffering.  We technically have all the necessary resources and knowledge to have a life of abundance with the help of machines so humans can go about doing other things and specializing even further to do stuff that they actually enjoy doing and at their own schedule.

Sorry, I know this was kind of a rant, but it's been something I've been pondering lately; and can't really shake this feeling of what a "post capitalistic" world would be like; especially in the technological advancement era that we live in now.

[Kprawn]

This is not just in Italy my friend, it's all over. Since Brexit we have been seeing a downward spiral in the global economy.
[...]

Exactly. A negative outcome of the referendum will spark panic all across the EU and maybe even on world markets. Everything is intertwined and Italy is not the only country with an excessive burden of debt.

What we are seeing in front of our eyes is the end of the EU and the recommencement of the debt crisis. It's very difficult to predict how long this process might take - the ECB already has announced to intervene - but the collapse is a certainty in my eyes. People are fed up with the arrogance of the ruling class and constant harassment by a never ending flow of arbitrary laws and regulations. The recommencement of the debt crisis will only amplify the anger.

We're living at a remarkable point in history. It's the transition from state controlled fiat trash money to the free market money Bitcoin, which will be fueled by fiat inflation.

ya.ya.yo!

The strange thing is that the developing nations are the first to crumble. We saw what happened in India {currency crisis} and also lately in

Venezuela and Zimbabwe. They are a sign of things to come, and I think Trump's presidency will trigger the global economic collapse,

because the dollar are seen as the global reserve currency.    Now that the Italian domestic VAT treatment of Bitcoin transactions has been

clarified, banks will take it more seriously. 

[countryfree]

Not in Italy right now, but I spend of a lot of my time there, I enjoy that country and its people so much. What's wrong this Italy is that when there's a problem, the government plans a new regulation to fix it. Then you wait. 6 months, then one year, and 2 years but nothing's changing. Because, the proposal to change has been lost nobody knows where, the parliament which was supposed to make it law had urgent work which prevent it from looking at it, some senator who is against the change has added one thousand minor proposals to make it better, and that will take 10 years to examine, the minister who was backing the project has been fired because his mistress has been arrested with a large suitcase full of cash, etc, etc...

The referendum this week-end will try to make things easier to change in Italy, but many are actually enjoying the country at a standstill. Tomorrow will only be worse, but tomorrow is another day...

[Milkduds]

This is very interesting, have really not been keeping up with news from Europe but always was curious why Italy did not fall right after Greece.
Hearing little news out of Greece as well, made me think something was about to happen.
We seem to be all screwed financially around the world and yet we just keep walking the plank.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Gunthar]

This is very interesting, have really not been keeping up with news from Europe but always was curious why Italy did not fall right after Greece.
Hearing little news out of Greece as well, made me think something was about to happen.
We seem to be all screwed financially around the world and yet we just keep walking the plank.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Italy didnt follow Greece becasue overall italians HAVE money in their accounts still. There is still a lot of money the government can suck out of our pockets in here...
~Gun (from Rome)

[Snorek]

It is happening Eurozone is crumbling. I knew from the start that anything more that Free Trade Act and is not an option for European people.
Europe was, is and always will be fractured. Government was blind in the United Kingdom and then Brexit happened, nobody beloved in Trump and now we will have another Euro-exit.
And I am actually quite happy, better now than later - one more argument that our only future is investing in precious metals and bitcoin.

[Yakamoto]

I'm interested in the answer too.

I know that Italy has 9 bitcoin ATM machines:

http://coinatmradar.com/country/105/bitcoin-atm-italy/

and that money has been flowing out of Italy:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/investors-pulling-capital-out-of-italy-ahead-of-referendum-2016-11-23

but it is not clear where the money is going.

The money likely isn't leaving the country, per say, chances are it is just leaving the currency due to the volatility of the Italian economy and the lack of a real economic backing for the currency. It's brutal there, and so chances are there are people sitting on things of value which will retain a majority of their value even if everything goes bad with Italy.

[WhiteSkinnedFREAK]

Whats going on with the banks in Italy? Haven't looked at the news

[OROBTC]

...

THANK YOU all above for your comments.  Renzi did not get his reforms (constitutional changes, so things will "stay the same", at least legally), yet the financial markets don't seem to care.

Agreed that Italians have a LOT to lose of there are "bail-ins", which is beginning to look likely.

Re Europe, we have seen this lately:

-- BREXIT
-- Hollande not running again in France (very unpopular Socialist)
-- Italy not changing their constitution

All three above are somewhat "Trump-like" events.  Only Austria went left (Green), but neither of the two candidates were from the tradiitional political parties.

Any investors should watch Europe closely.

[Ayers]

i read that they have exempted bitcoin from taxes if you do trading with it there in italy, but if you mean that bitcoin will begin to use mroe bitcoin because banks are in trouble i dobut it will happen, pretty much like brexit thing