The Road To World War 3

[dscotese]

The Road To World War 3
This is in legal because, amazingly, for most people it is still legal to pay zero taxes!  Educate yourself here.

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[mai77]

well first of all you must ask: is it legal to tax and how can you prove it?

[dscotese]

well first of all you must ask: is it legal to tax and how can you prove it?

Good point.  I didn't mean legal in that sense.  I meant legal according to the US government.  They have the guns, the thugs, the lack of principles, and the short-sightedness to hurt people for doing what they deem "illegal".  Most people think that includes refusing to pay taxes, but if they'd study the law closely enough, they'll see that (for most people) it doesn't.

[mai77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcdNCz_7Qo0

seems taxation law is not so clear cut

[unk]

there is no end to the scams and misinformation that 'tax protesters' or 'tax deniers' put out. it is all wrong. it doesn't even have a grain of truth. it's borderline illiterate nonsense adopted by crazies. people should read this excrement as they'd read a paper about how the illuminati are using north korea to promote a central world government that will control us all with radio waves.

[dscotese]

there is no end to the scams and misinformation that 'tax protesters' or 'tax deniers' put out. it is all wrong. it doesn't even have a grain of truth. it's borderline illiterate nonsense adopted by crazies. people should read this excrement as they'd read a paper about how the illuminati are using north korea to promote a central world government that will control us all with radio waves.

When you write "this excrement", are you talking about writing that uses hyperbole and accusations against other writers, employs ad hominem attacks, and describes the writing itself as "nonsense"?  Does "this excrement" of which you write also contain advice on how people should read the writing it attacks?  In other words, are you providing an example of what you're attacking?  The only part I can't figure is how you call yourself a 'tax protester'.

Do you protest against taxes, or do you feel that they are a good idea?

[black flag capitalist]

It doesn't matter if paying income tax is legal or not. They have all the power, guns and most of the public opinion on there side. They don't care what the law is they will get there money if you go to court. Either decide to pay your taxes because you don't want to live in fear or move your money around cleverly. If you do go to court you will be on there shit list, lose your money and probably be thrown in prison. Look at larkin rose. Trust me it doesn't always work like these people say it does.

[dscotese]

I suppose you're right about this:

It doesn't matter if paying income tax is legal or not. They have all the power, guns and most of the public opinion on there side. They don't care what the law is they will get there money if you go to court. Either decide to pay your taxes because you don't want to live in fear or move your money around cleverly. If you do go to court you will be on there shit list, lose your money and probably be thrown in prison. Look at larkin rose. Trust me it doesn't always work like these people say it does.

But I think it's only gone to court once. Here's the story from the victims keyboard, along with a few other cases which have been mistakenly assumed to follow the tax code. Here are examples in which the government didn't bother going to court (I assume because they expected to lose), and here are the examples in which it was handled properly from the get-go.

[zakoliverz]

The Road To World War 3
This is in legal because, amazingly, for most people it is still legal to pay zero taxes!  Educate yourself here.

so how does one pay zero taxes.

[dscotese]

The Road To World War 3
This is in legal because, amazingly, for most people it is still legal to pay zero taxes!  Educate yourself here.

so how does one pay zero taxes.

Did you see the link?  Unfortunately, this only applies to those whose tax burdens are created by the United States Internal Revenue Code.  If you're subject to some other taxing authority, you're probably screwed.

[Spendulus]

The Road To World War 3
This is in legal because, amazingly, for most people it is still legal to pay zero taxes!  Educate yourself here.

I looked at your link.

I wasted my time.

Now I'm off to have fun.

[dscotese]

The Road To World War 3
This is in legal because, amazingly, for most people it is still legal to pay zero taxes!  Educate yourself here.

I looked at your link.

I wasted my time.

Now I'm off to have fun.

Since you wasted your time, you might be willing to waste a bit more on this thread, where you might be able to help others (myself included!) see my folly.  I, especially and obviously, could benefit from some education.  Would you mind helping?  I could offer bitcoin...

[RodeoX]

So if we stop paying taxes who is going to repair the roads, put out fires, check the safety of food?.... well, you get it.  Or is that the sort of tyranny we want to avoid?

[Hawker]

So if we stop paying taxes who is going to repair the roads, put out fires, check the safety of food?.... well, you get it.  Or is that the sort of tyranny we want to avoid?

Brace yourself - the "invisible hand" is about to be deployed saying that mysteriously all those things will get done by private markets.  And nothing you can say will ever convince them that the magic of private markets is won't appear as soon as we fire the road repair teams, the firemen and the food standards inspectors.

[dscotese]

So if we stop paying taxes who is going to repair the roads, put out fires, check the safety of food?.... well, you get it.  Or is that the sort of tyranny we want to avoid?

Brace yourself - the "invisible hand" is about to be deployed saying that mysteriously all those things will get done by private markets.  And nothing you can say will ever convince them that the magic of private markets is won't appear as soon as we fire the road repair teams, the firemen and the food standards inspectors.

Actually, it's simpler than all that.  If you want it, you buy it, or you find a lot of people who also want it and you pool your money with them.

Who grows the food you eat?  Who makes the clothes and the cars and the computers?  Who built your house/apartment building?  Those hands are not invisible.  But they are private and don't generally force you to pay for things you don't want.  And when they try to force you to pay for things you don't want, you cry foul.  Don't you?

There's an even simpler way to view it.  You have resources that you earned.  If you don't take responsibility for deploying them to the betterment of your life (whether by extinguishing fires, building roads, performing safety checks on your food, or building/buying/renting a place to stay), then who will?  If you insist that someone else must do these things for you and take your money to do them, then go find a seller of such services, but stop insisting that everyone else use the same seller you chose.

These are the reasons that the US constitution has an apportionment requirement for direct taxes.  That people don't understand that, and don't puzzle over the tax laws to figure out why it looks like such a restriction no longer applies, is a tragedy.  If they did that research, they would learn that the appearance is deceiving.  The income tax is an excise on activities that are easily avoided, but people don't know that, so they end up paying anyway.  These payments end up covering the cost of the destructive wars our government blindly wages in order to profit the fascist corporations run by their friends - wars on plants (drug war), on countries that want to sell oil for something other than US dollars (Iran/Iraq/Lybia/...), on its own citizens in a gambit to justify increased tyranny (9/11), on the minds of young people (public education), and the list goes on and on.

[AprilShowers]

So....I want to get to work on the highway.....

So now I have to find a group of people who also want to use said hwy, and pool money to make that happen.....

Are you serious? 

I hope you get locked up for fraud.

Good day

[dscotese]

So....I want to get to work on the highway.....

So now I have to find a group of people who also want to use said hwy, and pool money to make that happen.....

Are you serious? 

I hope you get locked up for fraud.

Good day

That is how Disneyland was built.
Microsoft too.
Also most of the Internet.
You might also want to look up James J Hill, who nearly finished building a transcontinental railroad across the USA that way.

[AprilShowers]

OK, well lets get that going then.

Go get a group of people to pay to repave I70 please

[dscotese]

How much do you want to spend?  If you want to write some copy for a press release, I know a PR guy.  He could also write up a business plan, but that'll cost you.  You'll have to get public opinion on your side first, as I expect the government will try to persecute (and prosecute) you for stepping on their toes.  They think that "We the People" don't own "public lands" (including the 170), as far as I know.

[Hawker]

So if we stop paying taxes who is going to repair the roads, put out fires, check the safety of food?.... well, you get it.  Or is that the sort of tyranny we want to avoid?

Brace yourself - the "invisible hand" is about to be deployed saying that mysteriously all those things will get done by private markets.  And nothing you can say will ever convince them that the magic of private markets is won't appear as soon as we fire the road repair teams, the firemen and the food standards inspectors.

Actually, it's simpler than all that.  If you want it, you buy it, or you find a lot of people who also want it and you pool your money with them.

Who grows the food you eat?  Who makes the clothes and the cars and the computers?  Who built your house/apartment building?  Those hands are not invisible.  But they are private and don't generally force you to pay for things you don't want.  And when they try to force you to pay for things you don't want, you cry foul.  Don't you?

There's an even simpler way to view it.  You have resources that you earned.  If you don't take responsibility for deploying them to the betterment of your life (whether by extinguishing fires, building roads, performing safety checks on your food, or building/buying/renting a place to stay), then who will?  If you insist that someone else must do these things for you and take your money to do them, then go find a seller of such services, but stop insisting that everyone else use the same seller you chose.

These are the reasons that the US constitution has an apportionment requirement for direct taxes.  That people don't understand that, and don't puzzle over the tax laws to figure out why it looks like such a restriction no longer applies, is a tragedy.  If they did that research, they would learn that the appearance is deceiving.  The income tax is an excise on activities that are easily avoided, but people don't know that, so they end up paying anyway.  These payments end up covering the cost of the destructive wars our government blindly wages in order to profit the fascist corporations run by their friends - wars on plants (drug war), on countries that want to sell oil for something other than US dollars (Iran/Iraq/Lybia/...), on its own citizens in a gambit to justify increased tyranny (9/11), on the minds of young people (public education), and the list goes on and on.

As predicted.

The good news is that if you are right and able to convince a majority of your fellow countrymen you are right, then you can remove the state.

The bad news is that most people like having a state.  For example, building a road though a city requires eminent domain. If the road is private, at some point its tolls start to be considered a tax and people will insist on representation to go with that taxation.  Food regulation was introduced to combat the poisonings that characterised food production in the 19th century - who wants to go back to that? 

When Adam Smith wrote about the invisible hand, people were piss poor.  Unless we want to return to that poverty, we need a state and that means you pay income tax.

[RodeoX]

Of course taxes can be onerous, even tyrannical. But as long as people have a say in how their tax money is spent, taxes are a good idea. Something like a highway would not be built without it. As evidence, the first highway system were the Roman roads. The trade and connections they brought led to a massive increase in the standard of living and helped usher in the Pax Romana.
A private road network would require tolls at whatever rate the owner can extract. It could also require that you be a certain religion, or any other criteria. It would also not go far. In a society without government, power would be extremely localized and no one could oversee a project over hundreds of miles. Furthermore, it would be profoundly dangerous to travel.

Your life would be struggling to find enough food and medicine. Then one day the neighbors would come and take everything.  This is how all people lived until civilization, and why civilization became humanities most popular meme.   

[cointoss]

Don't fall for this garbage, folks. Lost Horizons and the book "Cracking the Code" are by Peter Hendrickson. He has been in trouble with the law for years for doing the things he does. Do not believe that you can just get away with it.

You are being told that you can safely stop paying your taxes by a man who has been convicted and served time in prison twice! for his tax schemes.

http://tpgurus.wikidot.com/peter-hendrickson

[dscotese]

Don't fall for this garbage, folks. Lost Horizons and the book "Cracking the Code" are by Peter Hendrickson. He has been in trouble with the law for years for doing the things he does. Do not believe that you can just get away with it.

You are being told that you can safely stop paying your taxes by a man who has been convicted and served time in prison twice! for his tax schemes.

http://tpgurus.wikidot.com/peter-hendrickson

I provided links earlier in the thread to better and more accurate information than what is presented at the tpgurus wiki.  The advice not to fall for garbage is good.  The reader has to decide for himself what is garbage and what isn't.  The volume of information at the tpgurus page is impressive, but it relies too much on that volume rather than sound legal arguments.

[Spendulus]

Of course taxes can be onerous, even tyrannical. But as long as people have a say in how their tax money is spent, taxes are a good idea. Something like a highway would not be built without it. As evidence, the first highway system were the Roman roads. The trade and connections they brought led to a massive increase in the standard of living and helped usher in the Pax Romana.
A private road network would require tolls at whatever rate the owner can extract. It could also require that you be a certain religion, or any other criteria. It would also not go far. In a society without government, power would be extremely localized and no one could oversee a project over hundreds of miles. .....

Actually, widespread networks and computers, coupled with micropayments, at least technically is enabling for numerous prior "government functions" to be taken over by the private sector.

The reason is that economically, what you state as the advantage of funding through taxation is actually only funding through a method that collects small amounts from everyone.  And it is impractical to place someone in a toll booth position to collect 1/10 cent every time someone uses a section of a public road, because the costs of the toll booth operators would be in excess of the monies collected.  Hence, taxes for supposed social goods.

[Hawker]

Don't fall for this garbage, folks. Lost Horizons and the book "Cracking the Code" are by Peter Hendrickson. He has been in trouble with the law for years for doing the things he does. Do not believe that you can just get away with it.

You are being told that you can safely stop paying your taxes by a man who has been convicted and served time in prison twice! for his tax schemes.

http://tpgurus.wikidot.com/peter-hendrickson

I provided links earlier in the thread to better and more accurate information than what is presented at the tpgurus wiki.  The advice not to fall for garbage is good.  The reader has to decide for himself what is garbage and what isn't.  The volume of information at the tpgurus page is impressive, but it relies too much on that volume rather than sound legal arguments.

When you say "better" or "more accurate" information, do you mean you don't believe the man was jailed twice, went bankrupt and that his followers also lost in court?

[dscotese]

Don't fall for this garbage, folks. Lost Horizons and the book "Cracking the Code" are by Peter Hendrickson. He has been in trouble with the law for years for doing the things he does. Do not believe that you can just get away with it.

You are being told that you can safely stop paying your taxes by a man who has been convicted and served time in prison twice! for his tax schemes.

http://tpgurus.wikidot.com/peter-hendrickson

I provided links earlier in the thread to better and more accurate information than what is presented at the tpgurus wiki.  The advice not to fall for garbage is good.  The reader has to decide for himself what is garbage and what isn't.  The volume of information at the tpgurus page is impressive, but it relies too much on that volume rather than sound legal arguments.

When you say "better" or "more accurate" information, do you mean you don't believe the man was jailed twice, went bankrupt and that his followers also lost in court?

No.  I mean better and more accurate.  What I believe isn't really of any import.  People have to figure it out for themselves.  The way people get jailed or fined requires that they be ignorant, for example relying on what others believe instead of studying the material themselves.

[Hawker]

...snip...
When you say "better" or "more accurate" information, do you mean you don't believe the man was jailed twice, went bankrupt and that his followers also lost in court?

No.  I mean better and more accurate.  What I believe isn't really of any import.  People have to figure it out for themselves.  The way people get jailed or fined requires that they be ignorant, for example relying on what others believe instead of studying the material themselves.

A certain amount of law breaking tends to be involved as well...

[dscotese]

...snip...
When you say "better" or "more accurate" information, do you mean you don't believe the man was jailed twice, went bankrupt and that his followers also lost in court?

No.  I mean better and more accurate.  What I believe isn't really of any import.  People have to figure it out for themselves.  The way people get jailed or fined requires that they be ignorant, for example relying on what others believe instead of studying the material themselves.

A certain amount of law breaking tends to be involved as well...

Can you give an example?  I mean, aside from the law breaking that most people already do every day.

[stevenh512]

So if we stop paying taxes who is going to repair the roads, put out fires, check the safety of food?.... well, you get it.  Or is that the sort of tyranny we want to avoid?

Repair the roads? They'd have to be doing that in the first place for me to be concerned with it.. other than major earthquake damage (less than once every 10 years or so), the roads around here are never repaired or maintained.

Put out fires? Where I live, there are more volunteer firefighters than paid ones.

Check the safety of food? Really? I don't want the people pushing genetically modified foods and high fructose corn syrup telling me what's safe to eat and what isn't. Same goes for drugs, BTW, they're pushing all these big pharma drugs with side effects worse than the diseases they're supposed to treat while healthy and natural medicines are banned.

[c0rw1n]

For roads and other "chunks" of work => Dominant assurance contracts
For basic necessities like running electricity and such => pay-to-policy outputs

For product safety : full reports of how everything is made. Basically a window on each item, that opens to show the whole production process, from extraction/growth to the end-user.
(inb4 "wut, lcd screens errywhere?"  : No, just hyperlinks.)