A strategy to attack LTC and make money meanwhile

[stdset]

1) Set up a pool, explicitly stating that purpose of this pool is 51% attacking LTC. Before the attack begins, mine like a normal pool.
2) (optional) Set up a pool which will also be used for 51% attack, but doesn't state that (looks like a normal pool). Don't do that, if according to your opinion, it is unfair play, immoral, etc. But such a pool is an important element of the attack.
3) Cooperate with a botnet, share future profit with the botnet owner (or maybe you are yourself a botnet owner). When the attack begins, ddos normal pools, they will go down and miners will automatically switch to the second attacking pool (the only pool which looks normal and not ddosed). Also use the botnet for mining.
4) Improve this plan, I'm sure it can be improved.

Why might you want to participate?

If you are among several key people, leading the attack, you will know date and time of the attack for shure and will be able to make money shorting LTC.

Many bitcoiners will participate in the first attacking pool, just because they want to do that, and somebody finally provides an opportunity.

Even if you are litecoin miner/investor, or just a simple guy never refusing making easy money, you might be interested in helping this attack. Being smart, you will be able to estimate approximate date of the attack. To make profit you don't even need to shortsell LTC. Just sell you coins and buy them later, during massive selloff which will follow the attack. You can either earn USD/BTC keeping the same amount of LTC, or increase your share in LTC.

[mai77]

that would work!  

it seems, the btc-e owners are very corrupt, it became obvious in the litecoin case. this way you can pay back!

[CoinHoarder]

Lol... good luck convincing the big GPU farms and Botnets into killing their cash cow.

I'm sure they will set aside the $1000s in profit just so you can realize this dream.  

[Hexadecibel]

1) Set up a pool, explicitly stating that purpose of this pool is 51% attacking LTC. Before the attack begins, mine like a normal pool.
2) (optional) Set up a pool which will also be used for 51% attack, but doesn't state that (looks like a normal pool). Don't do that, if according to your opinion, it is unfair play, immoral, etc. But such a pool is an important element of the attack.
3) Cooperate with a botnet, share future profit with the botnet owner (or maybe you are yourself a botnet owner). When the attack begins, ddos normal pools, they will go down and miners will automatically switch to the second attacking pool (the only pool which looks normal and not ddosed). Also use the botnet for mining.
4) Improve this plan, I'm sure it can be improved.

Why might you want to participate?

If you are among several key people, leading the attack, you will know date and time of the attack for shure and will be able to make money shorting LTC.

Many bitcoiners will participate in the first attacking pool, just because they want to do that, and somebody finally provides an opportunity.

Even if you are litecoin miner/investor, or just a simple guy never refusing making easy money, you might be interested in helping this attack. Being smart, you will be able to estimate approximate date of the attack. To make profit you don't even need to shortsell LTC. Just sell you coins and buy them later, during massive selloff which will follow the attack. You can either earn USD/BTC keeping the same amount of LTC, or increase your share in LTC.

Shame is the way that LTC handles mining makes this possible. I'll x-post this pertinent snippet from this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bcr1s/why_is_difficulty_set_to_10_minutes_per_block_why/

The different hashing is a silly idea of making things "equal" for miners. Whomever made litecoin wanted to stop GPU miners from having control, so they put in a memory hard hash instead of the SHA256 hash. But then of course it transpired that people can do this on GPUs, so they rebranded it to be ASIC resistent.
In reality the more dedicated miners like ASICs result in a safer block chain because in the Litecoin world, someone could build a really expensive but functional FPGA or ASIC at some point and completely take over the market. The artificial limits that Litecoin imposes on mining growth due to the mistaken notion of 'fairness' ultimately cripple miners' ability to secure that blockchain as effectively as Bitcoin's.

edit: so yeah, this is the real chink in LTC's armor. Once LTC grows to a sufficient value where it would be profitable to execute such an attack the whole LTC market will be at risk.

[CoinHoarder]

Seriously, you're using reddit as your expert witness? ROFL

I hope waitingforpizza is trolling. If not, waitingforpizza and the OP have a brain the size of a peanut.

They have no idea what they're talking about as well. Nothing to see here...

[Hexadecibel]

Seriously, you're using reddit as your expert witness? ROFL

I hope waitingforpizza is trolling. If not, waitingforpizza and the OP have a brain the size of a peanut.

They have no idea what they're talking about as well. Nothing to see here...

This is a real risk to LTC. Looks like you don't know how your own alt-chain works.

[tgsrge]

again the "botnets are coming for you brah" talk...what the fuck, atleast be creative.
also, since the litecoin network hashrate is what it is, any attack that can 51% litecoin can easily be scaled up to 51% bitcoin as well. not to mention that 51% a cryptocoin with a market cap of ~63325172 usd  would surely have atleast some spillover effect into the trust-ability of bitcoin as well. Not so smart now, huh?

[Hexadecibel]

again the "botnets are coming for you brah" talk...what the fuck, atleast be creative.
also, since the litecoin network hashrate is what it is, any attack that can 51% litecoin can easily be scaled up to 51% bitcoin as well. not to mention that 51% a cryptocoin with a market cap of ~63325172 usd  would surely have atleast some spillover effect into the trust-ability of bitcoin as well. Not so smart now, huh?

No, it cannot be scaled up to attack bitcoin nearly as well, because Asic hardware is making botnets unprofitable in bitcoin land. Asics are pushing them out of the market.

[CoinHoarder]

again the "botnets are coming for you brah" talk...what the fuck, atleast be creative.
also, since the litecoin network hashrate is what it is, any attack that can 51% litecoin can easily be scaled up to 51% bitcoin as well. not to mention that 51% a cryptocoin with a market cap of ~63325172 usd  would surely have atleast some spillover effect into the trust-ability of bitcoin as well. Not so smart now, huh?

No, it cannot be scaled up to attack bitcoin nearly as well, because Asic hardware is making botnets unprofitable in bitcoin land. Asics are pushing them out of the market.

LOL... there is no way for a botnet to be "unprofitable"... they have free power bro.

Also, botnets are making plenty of money off of mining LTC as is. They don't want to kill LTC because that would end all future profits from it.. why can't you get this through your head?

[Hexadecibel]

again the "botnets are coming for you brah" talk...what the fuck, atleast be creative.
also, since the litecoin network hashrate is what it is, any attack that can 51% litecoin can easily be scaled up to 51% bitcoin as well. not to mention that 51% a cryptocoin with a market cap of ~63325172 usd  would surely have atleast some spillover effect into the trust-ability of bitcoin as well. Not so smart now, huh?

No, it cannot be scaled up to attack bitcoin nearly as well, because Asic hardware is making botnets unprofitable in bitcoin land. Asics are pushing them out of the market.

LOL... there is no way for a botnet to be "unprofitable"... they have free power bro.

Also, botnets are making plenty of money off of mining LTC as is. They don't want to kill LTC because that would end all future profits from it.. why can't you get this through your head?

I'm not arguing that LTC can't be profitable. I'm arguing that LTC is vulnerable to malicious attack due to the way LTC handles mining. The fact that bot netting is profitable is the whole point.

edit: botnets cost money to purchase and maintain. There is a cost/benefit ratio and as Asics proliferate it will become increasingly more difficult to turn profit with bot nets on the bitcoin chain.

[CoinHoarder]

I'm not arguing that LTC can't be profitable. I'm arguing that LTC is vulnerable to malicious attack due to the way LTC handles mining. The fact that bot netting is profitable is the whole point.

You don't get that Bitcoin has survived for most of its life as a huge target for botnets. Botnets made a lot of $$$ off of bitcoin. If BTC can live through and even thrive with the existance botnets, then so can LTC.

ASICs will come to LTC too one day, just like Bitcoin... maybe you don't realize that. GPUs will be less profitable to mine than other ALT chains at that time, so the botnets will move to the next coin on the list, being forever forgotten in the past in LTC world.

All of your points are moot... bitcoin suffers/suffered from the same problem. You think all the botnets are already gone off the BTC network? Think again... You can still make a lot of money mining it at a high hash rate with no power costs.

You Bitcoin trolls all have the same arguments, but you can't see the flaw in your thinking... it gives me a head ache. I'm done trying to explain it to you man, you'll probably never get it.

[matauc12]

Lol, all these want to be attacks are pretty funny. Take care of the coin you care about, I'll take care of mine.

Besides, if you would be able to recruit enough people to create an attack out of pure malice and greed, I have much less faith in humanity than I already had.

[Hexadecibel]

I'm not arguing that LTC can't be profitable. I'm arguing that LTC is vulnerable to malicious attack due to the way LTC handles mining. The fact that bot netting is profitable is the whole point.

You don't get that Bitcoin has survived for most of its life as a huge target for botnets. Botnets made a lot of $$$ off of bitcoin. If BTC can live through and even thrive with the existance botnets, then so can LTC.

ASICs will come to LTC too one day, just like Bitcoin... maybe you don't realize that. GPUs will be less profitable to mine than other ALT chains at that time, so the botnets will move to the next coin on the list, being forever forgotten in the past in LTC world.

All of your points are moot... bitcoin suffers/suffered from the same problem. You think all the botnets are already gone off the BTC network? Think again... You can still make a lot of money mining it at a high hash rate with no power costs.

LTC founding tennent is that it is Asic resistant. They changed the way mining is handled to be more "fair" and dorked with inflation. Otherwise you might as well call it bitcoin.
How can you say ASICs will come to LTC when the whole point of LTC was to prevent people from having an unfair mining advantage? Why do you support LTC in the first place then?

Yes, botnets still exist in bitcoin, but they are being pushed out of the market like I've said.

[CoinHoarder]

LTC founding tennent is that it is Asic resistant. They changed the way mining is handled to be more "fair" and dorked with inflation. Otherwise you might as well call it bitcoin.
How can you say ASICs will come to LTC when the whole point of LTC was to prevent people from having an unfair mining advantage? Why do you support LTC in the first place then?

Yes, botnets still exist in bitcoin, but they are being pushed out of the market like I've said.

No, one of its founding tennents was that you could only mine it on the CPU.

That has since been proven to be false, ArtForz disproved that a long time ago when he learned that you can mine it on a GPU.

Nothing is ASIC proof sir... APPLICATION SPECIFIC (meaning it can do anything you program it to do... ie. mine litecoins) INTEGRATED CIRCUIT.

[tacotime]

Botnets compete for the allocation of scarce resources as well (stolen computers).

All LTC seems to be doing is driving up the price for stolen computers to mine it with.  Pretty soon the cost of a rooted computer will be absurd.

As long as there is competition among the botnet miners, the chain will be secure.

There seems to be some wacky notion of botnets as this looming deathstar above LTC waiting to destroy it.

[crazy_rabbit]

Interestingly enough- there is enough money in Crypto in general now that all the Alt-coins,exchanges,pools,etc, are now in the target sights of someone who thinks they can make money off some sort of attack or general mayhem (a-la the Joker- "some men just wanna see the world burn").

We will all have to be much more careful in the future.

[skull88]

So the plan is to sell your coins right before you destroy ltc?

great business plan, if a lot of people join you, you will get less than if you would just sold them without the 51% attack because everybody than sells them at the same moment. Afterwards you buy the then worthless coins back which will stay worthless, seems a way better plan than hold your coins and focus your energy on something that makes them more valuable.

And why would a botnet owner cooperate with you if he can make more money with mining and selling the coins. Your plan still needs a little bit rethinking.  

I'm not arguing that LTC can't be profitable. I'm arguing that LTC is vulnerable to malicious attack due to the way LTC handles mining. The fact that bot netting is profitable is the whole point.

You don't get that Bitcoin has survived for most of its life as a huge target for botnets. Botnets made a lot of $$$ off of bitcoin. If BTC can live through and even thrive with the existance botnets, then so can LTC.

+1
I still remember solo mining on my old laptop cpu, costed me +-1 day to generate 50btc.
Botnets came pretty fast, btc survived pretty good.
People seem to forget that litecoin actually travels the same path as bitcoin, first only cpu, than the gpu came (and now for btc ASICs). If you call it a flaw in litecoin it can't be mined on ASICs and botnets are profitable, than bitcoin was flawed too.

[matauc12]

So the plan is to sell your coins right before you destroy ltc?

great business plan, if a lot of people join you, you will get less than if you would just sold them without the 51% attack because everybody than sells them at the same moment. Afterwards you buy the then worthless coins back which will stay worthless, seems a way better plan than hold your coins and focus your energy on something that makes them more valuable.

And why would a botnet owner cooperate with you if he can make more money with mining and selling the coins. Your plan still needs a little bit rethinking.  

I'm not arguing that LTC can't be profitable. I'm arguing that LTC is vulnerable to malicious attack due to the way LTC handles mining. The fact that bot netting is profitable is the whole point.

You don't get that Bitcoin has survived for most of its life as a huge target for botnets. Botnets made a lot of $$$ off of bitcoin. If BTC can live through and even thrive with the existance botnets, then so can LTC.

+1
I still remember solo mining on my old laptop cpu, costed me +-1 day to generate 50btc.
Botnets came pretty fast, btc survived pretty good.
People seem to forget that litecoin actually travels the same path as bitcoin, first only cpu, than the gpu came (and now for btc ASICs). If you call it a flaw in litecoin it can't be mined on ASICs and botnets are profitable, than bitcoin was flawed too.

You sir, read my mind from A to Z.

But hey can we expect the OP to be strictly malicious and smart? I know they can co-exist, just surprising someone smart would waste time doing something bad when its easy to do something good.

[ElectricMucus]

[Hexadecibel]

Throwing away business idea.

1000 malware installs costs somewhat below $100 on dark market.

Its a botnet of 1000 hosts for $100.

LTC Scrypt is designed to pessimise GPU calcs with CPU calcs. So CPU mining is easier.

1 Intel Core i5 bot will bring $5 a day.

1000 bots will bring $5000 a day.

So
1. Buy botnet for $100
2. Buy bulletproof server for $300
3. Install ltc mining pool there
4. Infect botnet with ltc miner
5. Get $5000 a day.

I don't have time for this shit so I throw it away. LTC is shit.