Another ASIC company[Could be a scam?]

[mobodick]

For the record, we have never said that our ASIC Rigs product line are in stock or ready to ship. Anyone that has told you otherwise are flat-out lying to you... Period.

Your quote is from the 'about us' section of our website, if you had bothered to look at the VERY FIRST section of text on the site you would have read the following...

Then the page in the OP (and the topic of this thread) is not yours?
What the hell are we discussing here then?

[mobodick]

I totally get the need for people to be cautious about their money, but this really is just beating a dead horse, everything that keeps getting asked has already been answered and there is nothing else I can say right now other than what has already said, as much as I would like to be able to say yes, on 27th May we will have 200 units, until we get chips (that work to spec) and are actually able to start the production process, I can't and I would be flat out lying at this point in time if i were to give you a solid date for shipping or when we will have the rigs on hand to even sell.

I fully agree that you that you shouldnt announce anything untill you are completely sure.
For  the record, i was addressing the OP that seems to sell a similar configuration to yours.
Moreover, you started meddling with this thread as if you were indeed the person behind the website in OP.
And the website in OP clearly states "In Stock And Ready To Ship".

If the site in OP is not yours then job wel done on making it look like that anyway.

[GPU Rigs]

I totally get the need for people to be cautious about their money, but this really is just beating a dead horse, everything that keeps getting asked has already been answered and there is nothing else I can say right now other than what has already said, as much as I would like to be able to say yes, on 27th May we will have 200 units, until we get chips (that work to spec) and are actually able to start the production process, I can't and I would be flat out lying at this point in time if i were to give you a solid date for shipping or when we will have the rigs on hand to even sell.

I fully agree that you that you shouldnt announce anything untill you are completely sure.
For  the record, i was addressing the OP that seems to sell a similar configuration to yours.
Moreover, you started meddling with this thread as if you were indeed the person behind the website in OP.
And the website in OP clearly states "In Stock And Ready To Ship".

If the site in OP is not yours then job wel done on making it look like that anyway.

If you actually read a few replies down, we get bought into this thread and accused of scamming, right now honestly it's difficult to make out who is being accused of what and by whom as this thread, along with the sticky thread at the top of the forum have turned into somewhat of a clusterfuck of accusations, arguments and speculation as everyone has basically gone crazy with this witch hunt and left all traces of common sense at home.

[mobodick]

I totally get the need for people to be cautious about their money, but this really is just beating a dead horse, everything that keeps getting asked has already been answered and there is nothing else I can say right now other than what has already said, as much as I would like to be able to say yes, on 27th May we will have 200 units, until we get chips (that work to spec) and are actually able to start the production process, I can't and I would be flat out lying at this point in time if i were to give you a solid date for shipping or when we will have the rigs on hand to even sell.

I fully agree that you that you shouldnt announce anything untill you are completely sure.
For  the record, i was addressing the OP that seems to sell a similar configuration to yours.
Moreover, you started meddling with this thread as if you were indeed the person behind the website in OP.
And the website in OP clearly states "In Stock And Ready To Ship".

If the site in OP is not yours then job wel done on making it look like that anyway.

If you actually read a few replies down, we get bought into this thread and accused of scamming, right now honestly it's difficult to make out who is being accused of what and by whom as this thread, along with the sticky thread at the top of the forum have turned into somewhat of a clusterfuck of accusations, arguments and speculation as everyone has basically gone crazy with this witch hunt and left all traces of common sense at home.

Sure.

Maybe next time you find such accusations you could open a proper introduction thread and just link there so discussion can stay focussed.

Meanwhile i can tell you that there are very good reasons for people to start screaming wolf when confronted with yet another ASIC startup, especially if they have nothing to show.
ASICs turned out to be a confidence game and the potential risks are very high.
There are far more offers of ASIC products than there are companies that actually deliver something.
If anything this community is fully correct to call out anyone without a shred of proof.

Don't be scared of them, they are like the anti-bodies of this community.
If you can deliver than i'm sure you'll have all the business you can imagine.
Being honest won't hurt you in the end but you will probably get a constant headwind untill you actually have a working product.

[GPU Rigs]

I totally get the need for people to be cautious about their money, but this really is just beating a dead horse, everything that keeps getting asked has already been answered and there is nothing else I can say right now other than what has already said, as much as I would like to be able to say yes, on 27th May we will have 200 units, until we get chips (that work to spec) and are actually able to start the production process, I can't and I would be flat out lying at this point in time if i were to give you a solid date for shipping or when we will have the rigs on hand to even sell.

I fully agree that you that you shouldnt announce anything untill you are completely sure.
For  the record, i was addressing the OP that seems to sell a similar configuration to yours.
Moreover, you started meddling with this thread as if you were indeed the person behind the website in OP.
And the website in OP clearly states "In Stock And Ready To Ship".

If the site in OP is not yours then job wel done on making it look like that anyway.

I did start and introduction thread in the 'newbie' section

We never responded in this thread until someone bought it to our attention (via the sticky thread) that we were being called a scam... So yes, we will defend our company in any thread it is mentioned especially when we are grouped in with some companies that specifically do look like they could be scams.
If you actually read a few replies down, we get bought into this thread and accused of scamming, right now honestly it's difficult to make out who is being accused of what and by whom as this thread, along with the sticky thread at the top of the forum have turned into somewhat of a clusterfuck of accusations, arguments and speculation as everyone has basically gone crazy with this witch hunt and left all traces of common sense at home.

Sure.

Maybe next time you find such accusations you could open a proper introduction thread and just link there so discussion can stay focussed.

Meanwhile i can tell you that there are very good reasons for people to start screaming wolf when confronted with yet another ASIC startup, especially if they have nothing to show.
ASICs turned out to be a confidence game and the potential risks are very high.
There are far more offers of ASIC products than there are companies that actually deliver something.
If anything this community is fully correct to call out anyone without a shred of proof.

Don't be scared of them, they are like the anti-bodies of this community.
If you can deliver than i'm sure you'll have all the business you can imagine.
Being honest won't hurt you in the end but you will probably get a constant headwind untill you actually have a working product.

[Bitcoinorama]

Hi everybody, please allow me to offer my input as i've been having to constantly log in to this forum to reach the 4hour window prior to posting outside of the newbie forum. Realistically I joined today specifically to respond here.

GPUrigs/ASICrigs caught my attention the other week just after they created their site. I did some background and joined their Facebook page (yes they have one, here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/ASIC-Rigs-Bitcoin-Mining-Rigs/235882613203743?fref=ts)

I'm logically skeptical and naturally wanted to dig deeper. I hold a masters in Engineering Design and understand the processes involved in designing, outsourcing parts, building prototypes and taking a concept to market. To be fair I never assumed their proposed aesthetic was anything other than a mock-up inline with the current status quo's expectation of what a miner should look like - especially with reference to the fact BFL have the most identifiable miner physically and they are having issues with power and heat to fit in their proposed chassis!

If you check their Facebook page you'll see;



1.They acknowledged the design was merely a mock-up and their site is NOT accepting pre-orders.

2. I exist, i'm a real person, and I have no connections to ASICrigs (aside personal interest) and was the second person to like their facebook page. (there's only three fans, so come on peeps, stop complaining and start behaving positively)

3. I'm from the UK and am willing to take a round trip (we are based in opposite parts of the country) at my expense to ASICrigs and be one of the first to purchase a 4/5 devices in person and report the experience if +ive or -ive, as long as ASICrigs are content with me paying in person, to therefore mitigate any risk on my part of loosing money via early adoption of products from a company of no prior Bitcoin miner production.  I will post my review here, on their facebook page and on my blog with video and pictures as detailed as possible for the community and to fulfil the promise to ASICrigs.

4. ASICrigs have agreed to let me to do this in reward for an independent third party review as stated. I'm a man of my word, so I shall.

I can see that some are quite aggressive throughout this thread which is a pity as ASICrigs do seem to be standing their ground integrity wise. Furthermore, it is somewhat upsetting to see that those most vicious in their criticism have neither read the thread thoroughly to distinguish between the two separate companies mentioned here (GXMining and ASICrigs), nor looked around their website to see the Facebook page where upon the above has been answered. It kind of smacks similar to the journalistic integrity shown by the negative press in mainstream media that haven't even undertaken the most elementary of research in reading Satoshi's White Paper - all 8 pages of it!

I'm personally very excited to see a new contender stick their neck out like this, determined to produce and willing to accept an independent party's review. As I said I certainly am a real person and you are welcome to contact me here or message me via FBook, I will keep detailed and thorough updates of how this progresses. I'm sure ASICrigs are more than aware of how much business they will receive if they succeed in creating a competing product.  BFL are currently centralising the process, and setting the rules. Avalon's few hundred miners are hardly disruptive in the scheme of things; my current main concern is the background of who ASICrigs owners are and what experience they bring to the table in realising this. That was my last query and I have been promised a response prior to last weekend. I really would expect at least one electronic engineer on board!

From my standpoint; I love an adventure and if I can derisk by purchasing in cash in person and provide adequate feedback for ASICrigs and the community than that legitimises them in my eyes. I will also see their set-up and look them in the eye (as well as provide video/photographic evidence that they and their future products exist), plus as I promised they'll get a drink out of it, so everyone's a winner!…

So please give them a break unless you have something constructive to add/query; like what their backgrounds' are maybe…? Or perhaps technical insights that you feel would be an assistive contribution...

Regards, and best wishes, A.

P.s. With respect to ASICrigs it may help if you introduce yourself as a person with photo like BFL_Josh does. Putting a face person's name to the company certainly helps with customer service. You appear to have the thick skin for it!  

[mobodick]

I'm logically skeptical and naturally wanted to dig deeper. I hold a masters in Engineering Design and understand the processes involved in designing, outsourcing parts, building prototypes and taking a concept to market.

Hi

Did your engineering degree explain to you why it is possible to make actual payments through bitpay for the product they say doesn't exist?

[Bitcoinorama]

Ah you're the guy that doesn't bother to read posts thoroughly.

What my post stated and i'm now restating is that ASICrigs are prepared to sell me, a completely independent third party that lives within the UK working devices in person and pay in person with the money I currently hold in return for a documented review of the process, the product and themselves. Therefore there would be no risk to myself aside from a rather expensive train ticket and a day or two of my time, a journey i'm willing to partake for the benefit of all parties. There would also be no risk to ASICrigs as long as they are genuine in their intentions, and no risk to the Bitcointalk community (who as a prospective manufacturer they need on their side as well as an untainted social media page) unless they pre-order ahead of ASICrigs proving their intentions for an existing product.

Similarly previously in this thread (still mentioned on this page), in another post it appears you also haven't read is mentioned that a respected member of this forum (John K.) is willing to monitor and potentially refrain from releasing the funds in escrow of 5 members of this forum until such point as they are satisfied they are in possession of a working product at no risk to themselves. Admittedly they will only be able to report on the product and not the company/employees/facility or anything else I shall observe and document, but it's additionaly verifiable independant sources that add legitimacy to ASICrigs intentions to sell working products.

So no, my MSc. in Eng. Design doesn't explain why it is possible to pay via Bitpay for a product that doesn't exist, neither did my post concern that fact. The payment through bitpay is a new development, an option that wasn't available last week and a little odd as ASICrigs stated they wouldn't be accepting payment as they didn't have a product ready to sell. ASICrigs can you explain why you have decided to now accept payment via a payment means that offers no recourse on failure to deliver?  

Paypal may take more fees, but at least the buyers are given 45 day protected payment to demand a refund, hence the reason BFL use them for pre-orders.

So with all due respect "mobodick", your facetious response falls flat when it is a reply unrelated in subject to a comment i've made. I merely posted to put people's mind at rest that they are willing to stand by their intentions and meet me in person. In any case give them a break and allow them to respond; they are willing to put their neck out, meet me, be scrutinised by me publicly (and fairly for all parties) and willing to deliver a handful of units stateside to members of this forum in return for honest reviews.

As a casual observer I certainly wouldn't be parting with funds, especially Bitpay, unless they have fulfilled these above promises of my delivery in person and via respected third party held escrow that they have agreed to.

[greyhawk]

Why is it you talk exactly like "GPU Rigs" does?

[mobodick]

So no, my MSc. in Eng. Design doesn't explain why it is possible to pay via Bitpay for a product that doesn't exist,

Well, it's a bit of a shame that you wrote all that text because unless this company acts in a way that does not reek of scam there is no discussion. People should just not trust them.
There is no way this company should take payments without having a product.
They admitted here that they don't have chips, nevermind the boards or a prototype.

Meanwhile the owner posts in a thread about another site (so we know he is following this forum with argus eyes) but completely fails to announce his business in a new thread where he can explain the situation.

Maybe you're new to the internet but anyone can create a site and facebook account.
There is absolutely no reason at all to trust this party at the moment. In fact, they give a fundamental reason to be suspicious.

If you can give a rational explanation for why they are taking money (and aparently have arranged a deal with bitpay) without actually having chips or prototypes then please go ahead. But without a proper explanation for this they should be considered a scam of some sort.

Another telltell sign of a scammy attitude is the fact that you can only pay in bitcoin, not in pounds or dollars. Bitcoins will probably increase in price in the near future and by the time the company has a working product they can ship bitcoins could easily have doubled in value. All the costs for making the product are counted in fiat so in the end, whatever the outcome, people that pay now will lose out.

Buyer beware.

[mobodick]

Similarly previously in this thread (still mentioned on this page), in another post it appears you also haven't read is mentioned that a respected member of this forum (John K.) is willing to monitor and potentially refrain from releasing the funds in escrow of 5 members of this forum until such point as they are satisfied they are in possession of a working product at no risk to themselves. Admittedly they will only be able to report on the product and not the company/employees/facility or anything else I shall observe and document, but it's additionaly verifiable independant sources that add legitimacy to ASICrigs intentions to sell working products.

This escrow blabla is pretty meaningless when the site has the actual sinkhole of taking bitcoin. How many people that visit that site don't know that this escrow is available?

[Bitcoinorama]

Greyhawk - God knows, perhaps because i'm English?! They have a facebook page with only three people on it. I'm one of them, i'm hardly hiding behind a web of deceit. It's obvious who I am on there as i'm asking the exact same questions that have been asked here.

Mobodick - Agreed, hence the reason I will meet them face to face in person, or no deal. I'm certainly not going to pre-order with anonymous cryptocurrency on blind faith. Again, the option for payment wasn't there last week, this is a new development and contradicts what ASICrigs have previously claimed and disputed in this thread; namely the fact: they couldn't be ripping people off as they weren't accepting payment due to the fact they had no product yet and were in the process of sourcing ASIC chips. Furthermore that they insisted they didn't want to put themselves in a similar situation to butterfly labs where upon they had a mountain of orders to fulfil with no specific and assured timeline to production. The fact they have now disregarded that comment and are now clearly accepting payment for a potential future product with no protected means of returning funds appears to best irresponsible and at worst entirely deceitful. It's the polar opposite of what they claimed their intention was since their has been no certain update on procuring chips or further conceptual design/prototype.

Best, A.

[mobodick]

What my post stated and i'm now restating is that ASICrigs are prepared to sell me, a completely independent third party that lives within the UK working devices in person and pay in person with the money I currently hold in return for a documented review of the process, the product and themselves.

Since they have nothing they can promise anything. All the while taking payments in bitcoins on their site.

I can promise to send you a 500TH machine once i've sourced the proper ICs. Does that mean people should trust me?

You make it look as if the fact that they promised some people to send the 5 units is worth peoples trust.
That's pretty LOL because the whole reason these units will need to be shipped is to start a trust relation in the first place.

[mobodick]

Mobodick - Agreed, hence the reason I will meet them face to face in person, or no deal. I'm certainly not going to pre-order with anonymous cryptocurrency on blind faith. Again, the option for payment wasn't there last week, this is a new development and contradicts what ASICrigs have previously claimed and disputed in this thread; namely the fact: they couldn't be ripping people off as they weren't accepting payment due to the fact they had no product yet and were in the process of sourcing ASIC chips. Furthermore that they insisted they didn't want to put themselves in a similar situation to butterfly labs where upon they had a mountain of orders to fulfil with no specific and assured timeline to production. The fact they have now disregarded that comment and are now clearly accepting payment for a potential future product with no protected means of returning funds appears to best irresponsible and at worst entirely deceitful. It's the polar opposite of what they claimed their intention was since their has been no certain update on procuring chips or further conceptual design/prototype.

Best, A.

[Bitcoinorama]

mobo dick: "You make it look as if the fact that they promised some people to send the 5 units is worth peoples trust.
That's pretty LOL because the whole reason these units will need to be shipped is to start a trust relation in the first place."


BS, no I haven't, again you haven't read my post, these were the last two lines:

"As a casual observer I certainly wouldn't be parting with funds, especially Bitpay, unless they have fulfilled these above promises of my delivery in person and via respected third party held escrow that they have agreed to."

Please don't confuse the issue by jumping to conclusions in desperation to make some form of response instead of actually taking the time to digest what was written.

With that in mind the entire premise of my offer is to call out any potential scammer, and back that up by following through with the legwork and time taken out of my own day to add validity *if* their intentions are sincere because I live in the UK and can feasibly manage this. If they are legitimate let them prove that fact and be rewarded with more business than they could possibly dream of once verified as genuine.

Anyone parting with cash or bitcoins prior would be nuts, and yes irrespective of this forum, there will certainly be some individuals making such a mistake as payments are now live on their site, despite ASICrigs assurances to the contrary. They specifically stated their intention NOT to accept payment prior to securing ASIC chips so as not to repeat the mistakes of Butterfly Labs.

GPU Rigs: "We'd rather start selling once we know for certain we can ship based on demand not just take peoples money and constantly delay their shipping, that is what happened with BFL, we want to learn from the mistakes of others, not duplicate them LOL"

[GPU Rigs]

Okay just to clarify something here...

Yes, we do currently have BitPay on the website, however we have not actively started promoting the website yet.

The ONLY reason any of you folks know about the site is because it has been posted on this message forum by someone else, we never posted it, have not promoted it and as such, do not expect to get any sales until such a time that we start doing so.

The ONLY site and products we are actively wanting to promote at the present time is our http://www.gpurigs.com website, the fact someone discovered our ASIC site, prior to its official launch (we are currently in soft-launch) does not mean that we are doing anything to promote it, in fact as I stated yesterday, we are getting 50+ emails a day about a product that presently, we are not shipping or selling actively thanks in part to the posting of our website URL on this very board by someone in a sticky thread that hundreds of people can see.

We realized there would be a lot of feedback about our ASIC product line which is why, in my introduction thread it was never mentioned, we simply were not ready to start fielding questions, comments or support issues with that specific product line however, now that people know we are currently working on an ASIC line of models, that seems to be all they are interested in talking about LOL

In hindsight, we probably should have held off putting the ASIC Rigs website online until we were able to provide people with a lot more information than we presently have from our vendors and chip manufacturer however, what's done is done so we are doing our best to maintain the business on our GPU line whilst fielding questions and answering issues on our ASIC model line.

Just to re-iterate, presently our ASIC model line is not actively being promoted by anyone except for the people on this message board that keep posting about, we would much rather have the focus shifted to our GPU model line as we can currently take payments, fulfill orders and ship the product on that line.

The emails, if anyone is interested, that we are receiving about our ASIC model line are all pretty much the same thing, when can you ship, when can I pay and the responses we give in email are the same that we give on this forum, we don't know a final shipping date but we can ship anywhere globally & at the moment we are not taking payments for the product lines. Of course, anyone that has sent a pre-payment, is welcome to confirm that fact on here and we will obviously refund them if requested, I can say though with 110% certainty that at the present time, we have not had a single paid order for any of our ASIC models and honestly, right now, that is what we would prefer until we are able to have the models in hand and ready to ship.

Again, as a company, WE were not the ones to bring our ASIC Rigs website into the public eye, a member of this message board was, we have not, and will not be soliciting customers for that product line until we are certain we can meet the demand and fulfill the orders.

As I stated towards the start of this thread, even though I have done so several times since, I am 100% certain that despite yet another post to the contrary, posters in this thread will still say we are taking orders and continue to ask when we can ship and if they can pick the models up in person, because it would seem, no matter what the 'official' company word is, people still have it in their head we are trying to scam them and they just want in on this witch hunt without even reading the responses to the same questions, comments and accusations they are going to post or if they do, they post again in the hopes our answers will change so they can exclaim 'gotcha'.

[Bitcoinorama]

With all due respect, this is precisely why I remain neutral; staying firmly on the fence allowing you (GPU Rigs / Asic Rigs) to respond and provide timely updates towards your progress. I am not jumping to any conclusions, but it's only fair to air doubts towards a newly formed company offering specialist tech and permit you the ability to provide an adequate response. Likewise if this results in working product in hand I will do everything I can to provide independent proof beyond reasonable doubt to confirm such a product exists *when/if* that happens. As it currently stands you haven't in my eyes been anything but straight forward, you certainly have not evaded responding to criticism, much of which has been aired by posters who haven't fully read and understood the thread.  You've also been willing to accommodate my request of pick-up and payment in person which negates any risk on my part in return for an independent review.

I do however share some reservation in permitting payment, even bitcoins on your asicrigs.com site when you promised you wouldn't until you had a firm idea with respect to entering production. With regards to GPURigs.com , that is understandable; you are fully operational there, can easily source and build mining rigs with current graphics cards for sale and as such require payment.

For what it's worth your potential ASIC source ON Seminconductors is a well known and reputable chip manufacturer, their products are high quality and it should be easy to ascertain a response from them concerning such a specialist order to the UK should it occur.  I'm also rooting for a British company to add ASIC Miners to the mix!!  

As I requested before, can you please any relevant backgrounds of those involved in the project?

Best, A.

[mobodick]

mobo dick: "You make it look as if the fact that they promised some people to send the 5 units is worth peoples trust.
That's pretty LOL because the whole reason these units will need to be shipped is to start a trust relation in the first place."


BS, no I haven't, again you haven't read my post, these were the last two lines:

"As a casual observer I certainly wouldn't be parting with funds, especially Bitpay, unless they have fulfilled these above promises of my delivery in person and via respected third party held escrow that they have agreed to."

Yeah, that is what you said later.
But what i was refering to was:

Similarly previously in this thread (still mentioned on this page), in another post it appears you also haven't read is mentioned that a respected member of this forum (John K.) is willing to monitor and potentially refrain from releasing the funds in escrow of 5 members of this forum until such point as they are satisfied they are in possession of a working product at no risk to themselves. Admittedly they will only be able to report on the product and not the company/employees/facility or anything else I shall observe and document, but it's additionaly verifiable independant sources that add legitimacy to ASICrigs intentions to sell working products.

Here you claim that the promise to send these 5 units out adds to their legitimacy.
As i said above, the whole point of sending out these units is to establisch wether they deserve any legitimacy. The promise to send them is meaningless untill they are delivered.

[mobodick]

Okay just to clarify something here...

Yes, we do currently have BitPay on the website, however we have not actively started promoting the website yet.

The ONLY reason any of you folks know about the site is because it has been posted on this message forum by someone else, we never posted it, have not promoted it and as such, do not expect to get any sales until such a time that we start doing so.

Well, apparently it was findable and that means you made it somehow findable.
It is impossible that someone just typed in the right URL at random so somehow you leaked the info.
In any case it is funny how ready your site is (including having an arrangement with bitpay) and all information is geared for sale while you have nothing at all to sell and have no idea when/if you'll have a product.

It is ironic how you cry about people coming to your site that you havent announced when you can take it offline anytime.
Instead of taking it offline you actually added a payment method while you were fully aware that the site had been spotted.

In fact, you could have changed the DNS entry instead of writing this whole story.
But you didn't so i'm left i'm wondering why you act in this scammy way.

[Bitcoinorama]

mobo dick: "You make it look as if the fact that they promised some people to send the 5 units is worth peoples trust.
That's pretty LOL because the whole reason these units will need to be shipped is to start a trust relation in the first place."


BS, no I haven't, again you haven't read my post, these were the last two lines:

"As a casual observer I certainly wouldn't be parting with funds, especially Bitpay, unless they have fulfilled these above promises of my delivery in person and via respected third party held escrow that they have agreed to."

Yeah, that is what you said later.
But what i was refering to was:

Similarly previously in this thread (still mentioned on this page), in another post it appears you also haven't read is mentioned that a respected member of this forum (John K.) is willing to monitor and potentially refrain from releasing the funds in escrow of 5 members of this forum until such point as they are satisfied they are in possession of a working product at no risk to themselves. Admittedly they will only be able to report on the product and not the company/employees/facility or anything else I shall observe and document, but it's additionaly verifiable independant sources that add legitimacy to ASICrigs intentions to sell working products.

Here you claim that the promise to send these 5 units out adds to their legitimacy.
As i said above, the whole point of sending out these units is to establisch wether they deserve any legitimacy. The promise to send them is meaningless untill they are delivered.

I'm confused at no point have I said the 'promise' adds to the legitimacy. For sure, the promise depicts GPU Rigs as cooperative in meeting the demand of the trusted public forum, but I quite clearly state; "it's additionaly verifiable independant sources that add legitimacy to ASICrigs intentions to sell working products." These sources are not verifiable until the products are in their hands and they are satisfied to the point at which;

1. They are vocal on the subject and content with the device.
2. They have agreed to release funds because they are satisfied early adopters.