Reliable comparison between mining vs. buying and holding

[noictib]

I constantly hear people arguing for mining as opposed to buying and holding or vice versa as better investment strategy - is there any reliable source of information that compares the two over an extended period of time?

I think we don't need to go at any place tow examine whether to buy the Bitcoin directly or mine and then hold .
Here I will say that ofcourse you need to buy directly instead to waste your time for the mining because mining is not profitable for every place  .
But if you are from the China country then I would like to suggest that you to mine the Bitcoin because mining of the bitcojnnis profitable in the China , but if you want start your business with Bitcoins and you need Bitcoin amount to start then instead to go for the mining , direct buybis more better idea for everyone .
So all the will depend upon your location and need and conditions .

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[xhomerx10]

Actually I have a different experience between mining vs buying and holding. Because i have not listen for any people who arguing for mining and opposed to buying and holding. Even i hear a opposite for the people who think that buying and holding is much better and everyone could do it easily than mining. Because only big professional investors can do mining and only when they start to mining if in their country they have a lowest electricity.

Hi Oralmat, precisely! What you have quoted is very true these days. And that is why the mining that I do, it is done at a location where electricity is cheap, and plans are in place to upgrade the moment it becomes necessary, or even mandatory. Most miners don't stay long in the game because they lack the funds to upgrade when that moment comes, and that upgrading step is critically crucial to continue mining.

Buying and holding is also a good option, but many people feel that this was best done when bitcoin was much lower in price e.g. below US$1,000. With the current price of bitcoin these days, you can get a mining contract with all the benefits mentioned above for the price of a little over 1 btc, which you can potentially recover in USD in one to one-and-a-half years. This is because the returns are dependent upon 2 factors - the amount of bitcoin accumulated through mining, AND the price of bitcoin at any given moment. Hence, while 1 btc may be worth $2,500 today, if you manage to mine 0.5 btc in the next 6 months and the price of bitcoin then is $5,000, then you would have recouped that $2,500 (0.5 x $5,000).

The only difference between buy-hold and mining is, with buy-hold, once you sell your bitcoin to realise your capital appreciation, you will no longer hold any bitcoin for future appreciation, and you would have to buy new bitcoin at the price then, assuming you don't have any left. With mining, after you sell all your bitcoin from mining, you will continue to mine for more bitcoin for future appreciation, though I gather this time it will be less given the halving and increasing mining difficulty. But it doesn't matter, because bitcoin price would have been higher then, and you would be getting these bitcoin for free since you have recovered your initial investment. In our programme, the costs for all electricity, maintenance and future upgrades are derived from small quantities of bitcoins accumulated daily and apportioned aside, so no further reinjection of funds is necessary along the way.

The figures as tabulated at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/buy-hold-vs-mining-bitcoin/ are actual figures I have received to date. Of course, what will happen in one year, 5 years and 10 years from now, no one really knows.

 You can't earn 1.2 bitcoins in each of 3 successive years with cloud mining contract - the difficulty increases will make it impossible.  If it were so profitable to cloud mine Bitcoin, don't you think EVERYONE would already be doing it?  1000 day contracts are absolutely useless - no miner will last the difficulty changes for that long a period of time and the maintenance fees will eat up your profit long before the 1000 days are up.

 Stay away from this huckster OP!  He's not being forthright in his claims.

[digaran]

You need to mine if you need Bitcoin as the main method is mining in order to get your hands on some coins, when some body needs to quickly make a deal using a decentralized currency they will have to buy in bulk from the market and send it to the recipient, for example when some body wants to buy or pay for something that under normal circumstances they couldn't use the banking system, they could buy and use then.
However it is the same whether you buy it or mine it but it's better if you start mining it for yourself and keep the coins for the times when you need to do business to avoid going to exchanges and buying expensive coins since when you try to buy more than a few the price will start to increase exponentially.

[Sled]

Buying and holding have much more possibility of earning than mining because when you bought gpus for your mining rig then it already costs a lot of money while if you just diversify it on different good altcoins then you can easily grow it or double it within a month while in mining it will take a lot of months before you reach your ROI and also the price of coins are not fix so it is hard to tell when is your ROI.

[xhomerx10]

 You can't earn 1.2 bitcoins in each of 3 successive years with cloud mining contract - the difficulty increases will make it impossible.  If it were so profitable to cloud mine Bitcoin, don't you think EVERYONE would already be doing it?  1000 day contracts are absolutely useless - no miner will last the difficulty changes for that long a period of time and the maintenance fees will eat up your profit long before the 1000 days are up.

 Stay away from this huckster OP!  He's not being forthright in his claims.

xhomerx10,

We are not cloud mining. We have our own mining pool with a constantly expanding hashrate as the crowdfunded community grows daily. Nobody said it would be profitable to cloud mine bitcoin. In fact, nearly all the people we know who tried cloud mining didn't end up being happy at the very end.

Contrary to what you have said, there are people in our mining community (and I will say it again - we are not cloud mining) who have mined for more than those 1000 days, as the programme has an automated repurchasing of partial shares in place that keeps the contract perpetual. The decision to increase this repurchase amount from the bitcoin you earn daily is in your control which you may set and change at any time. All members who have mined for more than a year in the past have recovered their initial investments, and are mining on pure profits now. So 1000 days is what you begin with, and as you mine and allow the programme to run its repurchase to pay for electricity, maintenance, and increase of partial shares, your original share of 1 will be replenished after the end of the 1000 days. This effectively keeps the contract perpetual. What is more important is, the repurchase allows funds to be kept aside for the future upgrading of mining hardware the moment the new model of AntMiner is released, without further reinjection of capital from members. This arrangement cannot be underestimated for a long term sustainable mining operation and it's something you don't get mining with your own rig at home. Over the years we have upgraded from the S3 to the S4, S5, S7 and now S9, and have seen other miners around the world come and go on the hashrate distribution chart. BitMain maintains our pools and guarantees us a minimum hashrate in performance, so downtime is not something we worry about. Our mining blocks are available for public viewing at https://blockchain.info/blocks/BitClub%20Network, which is updated every 10 minutes.

The 0.1 btc per month are my personal actual mining figures from mining for less than 6 months for one of my accounts. I have a few contracts mining currently. I have just screenshot my pool earnings as of today and attached it here at . Whether I will continue to receive 0.1 btc per month, you and I don't know. It may be less, it may be more. But based on records of other miners in the community in the past few years, the monthly figures have been consistent even with the ever increasing mining difficulty since Mt Gox. Members earned about 2 to 3 btc per year before the last halving, and in my opinion 1.0 to 1.2 btc per year in the current halving era is quite realistic as my own records show. But there are no guarantees in life. You can only rely on past records, look at current conditions, and make an analysed projection for the future. After all, everything in cryptospace is such - otherwise you and I would have poured our entire life savings into mining or buying bitcoin yesterday. Which I don't. But I do both buying and mining, and place about 3 times in mining than I do in buying and holding.

At the end of the day, I can only show you my own figures and relay some facts about our previous records and performance. You will have to do your own research, look at your own risk-aversion, and see if this is for you. Nobody is arm-twisting you to participate. I am only offering an alternative to those who wish to consider mining without all the hassle of own maintenance and downtime, or concerns about upgrading when the time comes. Because you will have to upgrade when that time comes to cope with the mining difficulty, and most miners will have trouble reinvesting funds to replace a large rig or farm. We already have that planned for and funds set aside for that for each and every member. And that is why we have also seen DIY miners who didn't initially believe in our programme eventually quit doing it from home and joining us a year later, precisely for that reason. 
 

 You ARE cloud mining.  You own the equipment, you run the pools, you control the horizontal and you control the vertical - the only way in is by contract.  This is the definition of cloud mining.    

 Let me assure you that I know you won't continue to receive your 0.1 Bitcoin per month which means that only you don't know.  It will be less and less with nearly each and every difficulty retarget.  The difficulty has doubled in the last 180 days so any contract you purchased in January will be producing half what it was at that time already - 180 days in.

 Let's assume that neither you nor I know whether you will continue to receive 0.1 BTC per month.  If that's true, then how can you tell people to invest $3500 (plus $99 membership fee) with you today and they will have 3.6 BTC three years from now which will be worth more than the bitcoins I might have bought earlier in 2017 with that same $3600?
  
Here's a screen cap of BCN's "table" to refresh your memory:


 So you and I aren't able to do the math but BCN is capable of doing so?  Come on man.
 
You're not only offering an alternative to people who would rather have you do all the work, you are promising greater wealth through mining over buying and holding - which is misleading at best.

Here's some interesting research into BCN

 https://99bitcoins.com/anatomy-bitcoin-scam-bitclub-network-analyzed/

 Don't get scammed.

[megynacuna]

Actually it is dependent upon number of factors. If you have access to free or near-free electricity, cool climate, Millions $USD in capital, technical expertise and first access to the latest ASICs. Then yes mining is profitable. If not, you are almost certainly better off just buying and holding BTC.

That is true, or perhaps you should mine Altcoins and have them sold for bitcoins if you're able to meet some of the factors you've listed above. Mining is indeed becoming elitist and belongs to a selected few so it's better to realize the competition and rather buy and hold.

[Vaskiy]

Actually it is dependent upon number of factors. If you have access to free or near-free electricity, cool climate, Millions $USD in capital, technical expertise and first access to the latest ASICs. Then yes mining is profitable. If not, you are almost certainly better off just buying and holding BTC.

That is true, or perhaps you should mine Altcoins and have them sold for bitcoins if you're able to meet some of the factors you've listed above. Mining is indeed becoming elitist and belongs to a selected few so it's better to realize the competition and rather buy and hold.

Right now the mining too has got more difficulty. It's good to buy and hold, but the one time spending on mining equipment provides a sustained earning, even when the price increases one gain the same amount in terms of bitcoin. But while buying what we spend simply varies between the time. Else as mentioned mining altcoins and then buying bitcoin with that is quite a good plan.

[xhomerx10]

xhomerx10,

I saw that link you posted as well as some other negative reviews about BCN before I joined them and upon doing my research for about a week, I came to the conclusion that nothing in those articles were true. This was also confirmed once I was in BCN after a few months and knew in greater detail how they operated. BCN used to point their hash powers to a well-known cloud mining company in the earlier days but since becoming large enough, they now run and managed their own pools with hardware belonging to members. There are also some claims about BCN being a ponzi, which is not true. Only members know better. But you didn't say BCN is a ponzi, so I am going to let it slide.

A list of well-known cloud mining companies may be found on this list: https://bitcoinworldwide.com/mining/cloud-mining/

On my table of comparisons, I have stated that "mining difficulties change with time, and some variations and range can be expected throughout its course". When we started in January this year and BTC hits its ATH of $1,300, the daily figures fell slightly. When China announced their capital controls shortly after that, we saw as much as twice the number of bitcoin mined each day, although it resumed back to its usual average in the weeks that follow.

We know that mining difficulty is constantly increasing, that is a given - but that doesn't mean some miners won't fall out of the race along the way and allow the larger miners a higher portion of the bitcoin released into circulation. We went from obscurity to currently at Top 10 to 15 and have been for over a year now, and hope to achieve Top 3 to 5 by next year. Only time can tell if we will make it. No ROIs are guaranteed and my article made it clear about that. It also stated that you may "feel free to use your own projection in the calculation". The article is also meant to illustrate that when you buy and hold a bitcoin, you never really know when you are going to sell. But when you do, when you feel that the price is right, you no longer hold any bitcoin for future capital appreciation. Compared to mining, whenever you choose to sell your holdings for whatever reason, you will still continue to receive your proceeds from mining, assuming the mining operation is still profitable and sustainable then. If you don't like my figure of 1.2 btc, then just replace it with something lower, like 0.6 or 0.8. Mining does have its advantages, but it does carry some risks as well. And we all know what those risks are...come on, we're talking about cryptocurrencies here. If you want safe, put your money in the bank and just earn 3% interest p.a.

Still, I would recommend that people do both buying and holding, and mining, as I concluded in that article.

 We aren't talking about the option of putting money into a "safe" investment here so patronizing me by telling me to put my money in the bank is unproductive.  The thread topic is "Reliable comparison between mining vs. buying and holding" and that's what OP wants to know.  You don't give us enough information to do a reliable comparison of the two and neither does your site.  In fact, you are misrepresenting what a person can make by purchasing a contract on your cloud mining site.  This is why I contradicted you initially - to warn OP away from BCN.
 There is not enough margin in mining to be able to share the reward in the way your site explains.  You have to buy the equipment initially, the equipment becomes obsolete and must be replaced due to difficulty increases, you have to pay for electricity (the cheaper power in Iceland enables slightly longer useful life of the miner), you have to pay referral commissions and you have to pay costs associated with maintaining the site and its staff.  Show us your real figures and let us do the proper, reliable comparison for OP.

 

[szpalata]

Actually it is dependent upon number of factors. If you have access to free or near-free electricity, cool climate, Millions $USD in capital, technical expertise and first access to the latest ASICs. Then yes mining is profitable. If not, you are almost certainly better off just buying and holding BTC.

That is true, or perhaps you should mine Altcoins and have them sold for bitcoins if you're able to meet some of the factors you've listed above. Mining is indeed becoming elitist and belongs to a selected few so it's better to realize the competition and rather buy and hold.

Right now the mining too has got more difficulty. It's good to buy and hold, but the one time spending on mining equipment provides a sustained earning, even when the price increases one gain the same amount in terms of bitcoin. But while buying what we spend simply varies between the time. Else as mentioned mining altcoins and then buying bitcoin with that is quite a good plan.

Exactly, it makes every sense now to buy and hold rather than mine because you cannot easily beat the prevailing mining competition. It belongs to the elite and more powerful people with powerful hashing mines all over the world so wil advice all entry level miners to rather invest by buying down bitcoins.

[Pettuh4]

Actually it is dependent upon number of factors. If you have access to free or near-free electricity, cool climate, Millions $USD in capital, technical expertise and first access to the latest ASICs. Then yes mining is profitable. If not, you are almost certainly better off just buying and holding BTC.

I believe with a million dollars in capital you're better off buying down 400 bitcoins at the current prevailing rates and I'm hopeful you'll be able to sell and make good returns before the end of the year. It's just not practical to mine and make returns currently as the difficulty rate is on an ever increasing level.

[xhomerx10]

It is true that it is quite pointless to buy an ASIC miner and mine from home today. Overheads alone from electricity and cooling alone may outweigh your profits from mining, and your own hashrates may not be high enough to compete with the bigger miners around the world, resulting in much lower mining earnings than expected. These days, the best way to mine is to join a large mining pool - a pool large enough with a combined higher hashrate where all members of the pool pull their resources and work together to stand a better chance at validating a block. I am currently doing that with BitClub Network (BCN), in summary, for the following important reasons:

1. BCN's mining farm is located in Iceland where electricity tariff is low due to the use of geothermal and hydroelectric power. This significantly reduces overhead, leaving more of your bitcoin earned to be kept as profit. Cooling is provided naturally by the cool ambient air.

2. BCN is given a guaranteed hashrate by the manufacturer of AntMiner S9 that they currently use, which means that if there is any drop in hashrates or downtime in machines, additional resources are deployed to keep the hashrate at the agreed number. This sort of arrangement is not possible if you were to mine with your own rig, and you would need to constantly monitor its performance for downtime.

3. BCN is doing actual mining as can be verified on the blockchain.info website on the hashrate distribution chart for major miners across the world. The crowdfunded community is constantly growing with an increasing capacity in combined hashrate, with mining carried out with actual mining hardware. There are companies out there who claim to be doing mining but who don't actually possess or run their own machines, and some even go as far as to use the bitcoin phenomenon to capitalise on the gullibility of the public, without doing any actual mining at all.

4. One of the most important aspect of BCN's operation, which cannot be downplayed or underestimated, is their program for repurchases. This allows the current batch of mining hardware to be replaced and upgraded to the latest version when it becomes available, in order for the community as a whole to remain relevant in the mining race against other miners around the world. The older machines are sold off in the second hand market. This arrangement is possible without reinjection of funds by members, due to a repurchase plan and earnings apportionment that sets aside bitcoins mined for future use, equipment maintenance, and purchase of partial shares that keep the contract perpetual. Without this in place, the community as a whole would not be able to mine profitably and sustainably in the long term.

5. BCN has referral and compensation plans that allow members to build residual incomes, but only if they choose to want to do so. Earning bitcoins with BCN does not require members to do this, and most members are quite content with parking and sitting and earning bitcoins over time without doing much else. However, the compensation plans are there for those who wish to build. This building portion cannot be underestimated as well, as with this incentive for members to spread the word about bitcoin, BCN has been instrumental in bringing awareness about bitcoin and cryptocurrency to many parts of the world. If the price of bitcoin increases due to supply and demand, and from mass adoption or public awareness, then BCN is playing a small role contributing to that.

6. BCN has other cryptocurrency-related projects which they have and may introduce along the way. A more detailed description of the advantages and benefits of mining with BCN is provided at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/benefits-of-joining-bitclub-network/ and http://www.coinpurveyor.com/faq-bitcoin-mining-bcn/.

With bitcoin price often hitting all-time highs in the recent months, mining may still be a viable (and cost effective) option for anyone to accumulate bitcoin for future value appreciation.

For more information on getting started with bitcoin mining with BCN, kindly forward your queries to db6@coinpurveyor.com.

Seems like you shilin' fool.  All of your posts are about this "Club"

 It's because of the Ponzi-like nature of the club.  You have to sign people up and prey on their prey.
 It's multi-level bullshit using a pittance of mining for the illusion of credibility.  It's totally unsustainable but the top-level fucks are raking in the cash from the morons signing up, hence the trip to Iceland.
Too bad people are so gullible.

[G2z_Riya]

Mining has got lot many requirements and different governments have provided with different stepped process to make it efficient. With buying and holding, all that required is the patience to hold. More the time iin the wallet more will be the profiting.

[mrcash02]

Mining has got lot many requirements and different governments have provided with different stepped process to make it efficient. With buying and holding, all that required is the patience to hold. More the time iin the wallet more will be the profiting.

Yes G2z_Riya, that is true, and a very good way to invest into bitcoin's fundamentals, by buying and holding.

However, for those with a little extra capital after buying some bitcoins for holding, mining is also another viable way to generate more bitcoin as earnings over a period. A reasonable time frame would be at least about 2 to 3 years before the next halving in 2020, and beyond that in the subsequent halvings.

A comparison of the two ways of investing, between buying-holding versus mining, is given in the tables in my article at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/buy-hold-vs-mining-bitcoin/. Although both methods are risky (some people even consider buying and holding bitcoin as risky, and it is if they don't understand the problems with fiat currencies and the traditional banking system), mining presents a different kind of risk compared to just buying and holding, but the long term returns are usually worth it, for as long as the mining operation continues to be profitable. Feel free to use and replace any figures in the tables in that article to suit your purpose. You will find that with some acceptable risks, bitcoin mining has far better prospects than simply buying and holding. Note that here I am referring to mining with BitClub Network (based on my own track record data and known platform advantages), not mining on your own or pointing your hashrate to a pool with all the overheads at your own costs (warranty issues and breakdowns are another level of risk for those who mine from home).

With buying and holding, assuming you sold off all your bitcoin in your holdings to cash out, you will no longer hold any more bitcoin to be sold off at a future higher price. To own bitcoin again, you would have to buy it at the current higher price, which is likely much higher than you had originally bought years before. With mining, selling all your mining earnings today to cash out is OK, because you will continue to earn from your mining earnings for an indefinite time, again, as long as the mining operation continues to be profitable. Once you have achieved ROI, mining earnings from that point onwards become pure profit. Personally for me, that point was 2 months ago, when I was into my 8th month mining with BCN.

Andreas Antonopoulos had stated at his talk at MIT that mining will always be profitable, and I agree with him on that. The intrinsic value of bitcoin comes from the energy and resources it takes to mine bitcoin. I would also like to add, that to remain sustainable in mining, at the moment and in the near future, being part of a large mining pool counts. This will largely help to cope with the increasing mining difficulty as time passes. However, the bitcoin network is designed to be a self-stabilising economy that will find its own point of equilibrium, even as miners join and leave the network, and what will happen 3 to 5 years from now, we can only wait and see.

 

But mining is problematic. You won't mine forever or until 2146 with the same mining equipment, the difficult is constantly increasing, also there are extra costs if you are mining physically, on the cloud it becomes worse as the ROI takes too much time to happen or it may never happen.

Let's say with $5000 I buy 1 Bitcoin. But with the same $5000 investment in mining I'm not able to get 1 Bitcoin from it.

[leonair]

Mining has got lot many requirements and different governments have provided with different stepped process to make it efficient. With buying and holding, all that required is the patience to hold. More the time iin the wallet more will be the profiting.

Mining cryptocurrency is having a physical asset that will give you a chance to earn different kinds of coins that is mine-able by your hardware and you can choose whichever coin you want to mine while in the buying and holding part is you only relying to what will market reacts to a positive or negative side of it. both of this kind of things is worth it if you invest not only your money but your time in learning the different kinds of techniques so that you will not end up broke.

[evilgreed]

          As far as i am concerned, if you have that resources that you can go ajd make a mining rigs then its up to the person and if at the same time he is also trading or something else like that, would it be bad also? It is not about comparing which is better just for the sake of other peoples opinion, when they can even do both as long as they can keep up and earn from their resources.

[ramsdaj28]

I would say to do both. For example, if you had the funds to buy 5 btc, I would suggest to put 1.5 btc into mining with a pool like BCN (and the other 3.5 btc into holding) because even though they are not the elite, they build their hashrates from an ever expanding member base from around the world, and they have programmes in place to stay sustainable for some time to come. In about a year or so, the amount of bitcoin mined and paid out, at the price of bitcoin then, should be enough to recover the initial investment, and you can still continue to mine thereafter and earn more than the original 1.5 btc you invested. This was the experience of all members who have been mining for at least one year with BCN in the past three years. Whether they will still be profitable in the next one year from now as they have been in the past, no one can say for sure, but they have mechanisms in place that looks promising enough that they will be mining for years to come.

BUT say, if you only had the funds to buy 1 btc, then you are right, it would make sense to just buy and hold.  

Mining won't already be profitable at this point of time. There's a lot of miners and mining company that put up their mining businesses (I am referring to mining rigs and units, not mining pool and sites) and that will result to a fast increase in total number of available bitcoins and mined bitcoins. As of now, there are already almost 80% of all available bitcoins being mined. After all 21M bitcoins are mined, miners will just earn from transaction fees of every transactions made by bitcoin users. You should also consider that setting up a bitcoin mining sets requires a lot of time and effort, and it will also need electricity which will result to high electricity bill.

For me, buying and holding will be better since bitcoin price is continuously increasing since 2013, and is predicted to double in the next coming years. Also, there are a lot of good altcoins out there that you can buy and hold. Instead of dividing your money to use some of it in buying bitcoin mining machines/rigs/gpus/sets, I'd rather use a part of my money in buying other altcoins and the other part in buying bitcoin.

[xhomerx10]

But mining is problematic. You won't mine forever or until 2146 with the same mining equipment, the difficult is constantly increasing, also there are extra costs if you are mining physically, on the cloud it becomes worse as the ROI takes too much time to happen or it may never happen.

Let's say with $5000 I buy 1 Bitcoin. But with the same $5000 investment in mining I'm not able to get 1 Bitcoin from it.

Dear mrcash02,

Indeed you are right to say that mining is problematic - and that is why we leave our rigs at the farm in Iceland to be looked after and maintained 24/7 by on-site technicians. I am a technical person, and even then there are benefits when you have people who do this for a living look after some 20,000+ AntMiners all at the same time. At BCN, we understand the need to upgrade hardware along the way in order to remain relevant and ahead of the game, and over the years since 2014, we have upgraded a few times. We started with the S3, and over the years moved up to the S4, S5, S7 and currently the S9. On one year, we had to upgrade twice. Some of the AntMiner S5 (now just an expensive paperweight) we used from 2 years ago which we did not dispose off were given to members as souvenirs in the last visit to Iceland in June this year, which you can see at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/benefits-of-joining-bitclub-network/.

The upgrades were all done without new capital reinjection from members, because of a repurchase mechanism within the platform programme. Members are required to put aside a portion of their daily earnings (varying from 30% to 100%) to account for this, and as a result, your repurchases will accumulate partial shares in little increments that will allow you to mine for an indefinite period of time past the 1,000-day contract period, until it becomes no longer profitable to mine.

Mining difficulty is a relative term, and with a large pool like BCN, we are not affected by it as much as say an individual miner. As members join the platform with Founder Pools, more machines are added to bump up the hashrate to put us at top positions on the hashrate distribution chart - that's the advantage of a crowdfunded setup like BCN. See http://www.coinpurveyor.com/bitclub-network-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mining-pools/. People mistakenly think we're a cloud mining site, but we're actually running our own private pool which is mining exclusively for members using only members's mining hardware. Our hashrate is derived solely from our own hardware and not from external mining hardware sources pointing in, and that's how the operation is kept profitable for members.

So, to quote your $5,000 investment figure to buy bitcoin instead of mining, allow me to share with you some figures from my own mining earnings with BCN. My initial investment with BCN was actually $4,800 at the start of this year, and I have since bought more pools once I saw and understood how the mining payouts work. But let's just consider my first $4,800 investment (to tally closely with your $5,000 figure), which consists of a large pool and 2 smaller pools. As of today after 9+ months of mining, the total earnings from mining alone are (USD figure in bracket based on 1 BTC = US$5,700 today at time of writing):

1.32854 + 0.19804 + 0.19797 = 1.72455 BTC (US$9.829.94)

After deducting my repurchases, which I have set at a moderate level on average, and even at 100% for some time earlier this year, the net mining earnings from these 3 pools are:

0.79289 + 0.07378 + 0.07401 = 0.94068 BTC (US$5,361.88)

So yes, to put it in perspective, you would be able to get 1 BTC eventually with a $5,000 investment in mining. You would just have to join a large mining pool like BCN to achieve that, not mining on your own. The figures above tally with my projections given at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/buy-hold-vs-mining-bitcoin/.

I can choose to set the repurchase at 0% and still earn 1.72455 BTC (US$9.829.94) if I want to, but in that case, mining for my contracts will end after 1,000 days. So you could say I could throttle my mining earnings in 9 months to be anywhere between 0.94 BTC (mining for indefinite period) to 1.72 BTC (for 1,000-day mining). Either way, these 3 pools have reached ROI in under 9 months. All this is done without having to do anything - no selling, no recruitment etc. Just sitting back and letting the daily earnings roll in. Referral commissions (which are derived from hardware sales) are counted separately, and is an incentive for members who put in the extra effort to bring in new members (read: to increase BCN's overall hashrate). The mechanisms are there to ensure those who work hard are well-compensated for their efforts (which is fair), but even the "lazy" ones who don't lift a finger will earn the figures I have shown above as a minimum for doing nothing. My wife is one such person, and her account has earned over one-third of her initial investment in the last 108 days of mining.

And true that we will not mine forever or even until 2140...and we may not even be mining in the next 20 years, let alone 123 years, but as miners, what we're interested in is the daily yield that comes from mining, and even if we were to mine for another 3 to 5 years, it would already be very profitable.

Most of us who mine are usually believers of bitcoin, and we don't usually touch or sell off the yield until far ahead in the future when bitcoin hits a certain price. The figures above are quoted based on the current price of bitcoin, and even if I were to assume a non-linear earning with a total of just 2 BTC by the end of 2018, and speculate that 1 BTC = US$10,000 by that time, that's $20,000 over my initial investment of US$4,800...and the important thing is, mining will still continue beyond that. Looking at such projections, I am inclined to believe that mining is still a viable option as an investment. Accumulating multiple bitcoins over time to me seems to be a better proposition than just buying and holding one, for the same price of $5,000. And if you owned only one BTC and sold that off next year, you will not have any in your possession to sell off in 5 years when let's say bitcoin gets to $25,000. In mining, you will always be generating new bitcoins to be sold at any time in the future whenever the price is right.

On top of that, you get to feel good that you're helping to validate transaction blocks and to secure the bitcoin network with your mining hardware - an active participant in the whole bitcoin economy instead of a passive one.

Of course, it is also always good to hold some bitcoin as a fundamental investment and I usually encourage people to do so, but if you have "a few spare change" over that, mining is a good way to diversify a little. A Founder Pool costs only US$3,500 + US$99, which is only about 0.63 BTC at today's rate. Anyone who has a few BTC (e.g. 3 BTC) in his possession could look at spending just 0.63 BTC to get into mining with his own hardware, and keep the remainder (2.36 BTC) as fundamental holdings. That 0.63 BTC could just very well turn into 2 BTC over the next few years, bringing the new total holdings to 4.36 BTC. Continue mining for another few more years and you could double that original 3 BTC you have into 6 BTC.

Anyone who is interested to join the pool can follow the steps here at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/join-a-bitcoin-mining-pool/.

 You don't make enough money mining to support a huge network of people while paying them commissions for signing up new members.  The money comes from signing up new members period.  The Bitcoin aspect is simply the lure.  Bitcoin is the latest and greatest thing and it's in the news daily.  Bitclubnetwork simply feeds on that to attract new money.

 The Bitclubnetwork does not own and operate all of the hashing power shown as they have opened a zero fee pool to all takers.  It makes them look larger than they really are to attract new suckers members.

 You make money at this buy taking it from friends and loved ones - take devonbuy for example, signing up his own wife just to get extra commission.  It's a cult of greed that feeds on money from new members.

 Oh, let's sayyou had purchased $4800 in Bitcoin at the beginning of the this year and held it rather than putting it into this MLM scheme as you did.  You would have purchased around 5 Bitcoin which would be worth US$28,000+ today - 9 months later.  TL;DR What did you make again?   How do you mine for 1000 days on a machine that becomes ineffective in half a year?  You don't, because it isn't possible. 
So where does the money come from?!?



 Ah I see...



 Get paid in Bitcoin by referring friends family and loved ones.  Got it.

Recommendation: Avoid.

[tbterryboy]

But mining is problematic. You won't mine forever or until 2146 with the same mining equipment, the difficult is constantly increasing, also there are extra costs if you are mining physically, on the cloud it becomes worse as the ROI takes too much time to happen or it may never happen.

Let's say with $5000 I buy 1 Bitcoin. But with the same $5000 investment in mining I'm not able to get 1 Bitcoin from it.

Dear mrcash02,

Indeed you are right to say that mining is problematic - and that is why we leave our rigs at the farm in Iceland to be looked after and maintained 24/7 by on-site technicians. I am a technical person, and even then there are benefits when you have people who do this for a living look after some 20,000+ AntMiners all at the same time. At BCN, we understand the need to upgrade hardware along the way in order to remain relevant and ahead of the game, and over the years since 2014, we have upgraded a few times. We started with the S3, and over the years moved up to the S4, S5, S7 and currently the S9. On one year, we had to upgrade twice. Some of the AntMiner S5 (now just an expensive paperweight) we used from 2 years ago which we did not dispose off were given to members as souvenirs in the last visit to Iceland in June this year, which you can see at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/benefits-of-joining-bitclub-network/.

The upgrades were all done without new capital reinjection from members, because of a repurchase mechanism within the platform programme. Members are required to put aside a portion of their daily earnings (varying from 30% to 100%) to account for this, and as a result, your repurchases will accumulate partial shares in little increments that will allow you to mine for an indefinite period of time past the 1,000-day contract period, until it becomes no longer profitable to mine.

Mining difficulty is a relative term, and with a large pool like BCN, we are not affected by it as much as say an individual miner. As members join the platform with Founder Pools, more machines are added to bump up the hashrate to put us at top positions on the hashrate distribution chart - that's the advantage of a crowdfunded setup like BCN. See http://www.coinpurveyor.com/bitclub-network-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mining-pools/. People mistakenly think we're a cloud mining site, but we're actually running our own private pool which is mining exclusively for members using only members's mining hardware. Our hashrate is derived solely from our own hardware and not from external mining hardware sources pointing in, and that's how the operation is kept profitable for members.

So, to quote your $5,000 investment figure to buy bitcoin instead of mining, allow me to share with you some figures from my own mining earnings with BCN. My initial investment with BCN was actually $4,800 at the start of this year, and I have since bought more pools once I saw and understood how the mining payouts work. But let's just consider my first $4,800 investment (to tally closely with your $5,000 figure), which consists of a large pool and 2 smaller pools. As of today after 9+ months of mining, the total earnings from mining alone are (USD figure in bracket based on 1 BTC = US$5,700 today at time of writing):

1.32854 + 0.19804 + 0.19797 = 1.72455 BTC (US$9.829.94)

After deducting my repurchases, which I have set at a moderate level on average, and even at 100% for some time earlier this year, the net mining earnings from these 3 pools are:

0.79289 + 0.07378 + 0.07401 = 0.94068 BTC (US$5,361.88)

So yes, to put it in perspective, you would be able to get 1 BTC eventually with a $5,000 investment in mining. You would just have to join a large mining pool like BCN to achieve that, not mining on your own. The figures above tally with my projections given at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/buy-hold-vs-mining-bitcoin/.

I can choose to set the repurchase at 0% and still earn 1.72455 BTC (US$9.829.94) if I want to, but in that case, mining for my contracts will end after 1,000 days. So you could say I could throttle my mining earnings in 9 months to be anywhere between 0.94 BTC (mining for indefinite period) to 1.72 BTC (for 1,000-day mining). Either way, these 3 pools have reached ROI in under 9 months. All this is done without having to do anything - no selling, no recruitment etc. Just sitting back and letting the daily earnings roll in. Referral commissions (which are derived from hardware sales) are counted separately, and is an incentive for members who put in the extra effort to bring in new members (read: to increase BCN's overall hashrate). The mechanisms are there to ensure those who work hard are well-compensated for their efforts (which is fair), but even the "lazy" ones who don't lift a finger will earn the figures I have shown above as a minimum for doing nothing. My wife is one such person, and her account has earned over one-third of her initial investment in the last 108 days of mining.

And true that we will not mine forever or even until 2140...and we may not even be mining in the next 20 years, let alone 123 years, but as miners, what we're interested in is the daily yield that comes from mining, and even if we were to mine for another 3 to 5 years, it would already be very profitable.

Most of us who mine are usually believers of bitcoin, and we don't usually touch or sell off the yield until far ahead in the future when bitcoin hits a certain price. The figures above are quoted based on the current price of bitcoin, and even if I were to assume a non-linear earning with a total of just 2 BTC by the end of 2018, and speculate that 1 BTC = US$10,000 by that time, that's $20,000 over my initial investment of US$4,800...and the important thing is, mining will still continue beyond that. Looking at such projections, I am inclined to believe that mining is still a viable option as an investment. Accumulating multiple bitcoins over time to me seems to be a better proposition than just buying and holding one, for the same price of $5,000. And if you owned only one BTC and sold that off next year, you will not have any in your possession to sell off in 5 years when let's say bitcoin gets to $25,000. In mining, you will always be generating new bitcoins to be sold at any time in the future whenever the price is right.

On top of that, you get to feel good that you're helping to validate transaction blocks and to secure the bitcoin network with your mining hardware - an active participant in the whole bitcoin economy instead of a passive one.

Of course, it is also always good to hold some bitcoin as a fundamental investment and I usually encourage people to do so, but if you have "a few spare change" over that, mining is a good way to diversify a little. A Founder Pool costs only US$3,500 + US$99, which is only about 0.63 BTC at today's rate. Anyone who has a few BTC (e.g. 3 BTC) in his possession could look at spending just 0.63 BTC to get into mining with his own hardware, and keep the remainder (2.36 BTC) as fundamental holdings. That 0.63 BTC could just very well turn into 2 BTC over the next few years, bringing the new total holdings to 4.36 BTC. Continue mining for another few more years and you could double that original 3 BTC you have into 6 BTC.

Anyone who is interested to join the pool can follow the steps here at http://www.coinpurveyor.com/join-a-bitcoin-mining-pool/.

Yes mining is problematic in nature as mining requires a constant supply of electricity which are very costly as well a powerful CPU and a GPU are also needed for this purpose as compare to bit coin trading and investment as it is not so problematic in nature it requires no such formalities just invest your capital and get the profit and loss.

[xhomerx10]

 You don't make enough money mining to support a huge network of people while paying them commissions for signing up new members.  The money comes from signing up new members period.  The Bitcoin aspect is simply the lure.  Bitcoin is the latest and greatest thing and it's in the news daily.  Bitclubnetwork simply feeds on that to attract new money.

 The Bitclubnetwork does not own and operate all of the hashing power shown as they have opened a zero fee pool to all takers.  It makes them look larger than they really are to attract new suckers members.

 You make money at this buy taking it from friends and loved ones - take devonbuy for example, signing up his own wife just to get extra commission.  It's a cult of greed that feeds on money from new members.

 Oh, let's sayyou had purchased $4800 in Bitcoin at the beginning of the this year and held it rather than putting it into this MLM scheme as you did.  You would have purchased around 5 Bitcoin which would be worth US$28,000+ today - 9 months later.  TL;DR What did you make again?   How do you mine for 1000 days on a machine that becomes ineffective in half a year?  You don't, because it isn't possible.  
So where does the money come from?!?

 Ah I see...

 Get paid in Bitcoin by referring friends family and loved ones.  Got it.

Recommendation: Avoid.

I have already debunked most of the points you raised in another discussion here on this forum in detail if you care to read up. Time and time again, people like you who are not part of the programme get your facts wrong and peddle false information by referring to fake reviews (who also get their facts wrong) and share misleading image captions (like you just did)...a case of the blind leading the blind.

I will put it in summary here because I don't have the time to cover it in detail over and over again. Your comments are placed in bold:

You don't make enough money mining to support a huge network of people while paying them commissions for signing up new members.  The money comes from signing up new members period.  The Bitcoin aspect is simply the lure.  Bitcoin is the latest and greatest thing and it's in the news daily.  Bitclubnetwork simply feeds on that to attract new money.
Referral commission payouts are from hardware sales and membership fees. You get compensated for the time and effort you put in. The founder pool which gets you ownership of your own mining hardware is $3,500, and including all the associated costs with ordering, delivering, installing, setting up, maintaining etc. this price is just about what you pay for buying a hardware of your own. When you opt out, the hardware is delivered to your home address. The price is fair - they are not asking for $5,000 or $8,000. Commissions are only paid up to a certain level. When you buy life insurance, the same thing happens at the agency. No one complains about that. In BCN, you don't get new members, you don't get paid commission. Period. In this instance, you only get paid mining earnings, which is slightly better than what you would get if you were to mine on your own. Based on this advantage alone, it would already be better mining with BCN than on your own. And if a friend decides to join you, you get a little extra, which you would not otherwise get by mining on your own. I've already mentioned that the active 30% in BCN cannot support the remaining passive 70% in BCN for the last 3 years. If these figures don't make sense to you, it means you don't understand the difference between a genuine MLM programme and a ponzi scheme. Everything with this structure would appear to be a scam to you. BCN had to stop sales of contracts twice in the last 2 months due to a sudden surge in sales volume. A real ponzi relying on membership fees to pay out to old members would have continued to accept new members regardless. But you didn't know that, and talked based on plucked assumptions from the sky.

The Bitclubnetwork does not own and operate all of the hashing power shown as they have opened a zero fee pool to all takers.  It makes them look larger than they really are to attract new suckers members.
Again, plucked assumptions from the sky. There are no pool fees because BCN's pool is not open to takers and external sources. All the hashing power shown and resulting mining earnings are distributed internally within members. We can't make ourselves look larger by faking hashrate percentages on the third party sites I mentioned. BCN do not operate like SlushPool or F2Pool. Again, shows how little you know about this industry, and BCN. The real suckers are the ones who believe everything they read at face value on the internet, and don't care enough to do careful research and fact-finding.

You make money at this by taking it from friends and loved ones - take devonbuy for example, signing up his own wife just to get extra commission.  It's a cult of greed that feeds on money from new members.
I have already covered this many times, so read it up elsewhere. But if it's too difficult for you to understand, I'll quote an easier example for your comprehension. Forget insurance. You buy a house, and the real-estate agent, who could be your spouse or relative, gets a commission. His team manager gets a commission, as well as from other agents in his team who sell properties. The commission comes from the price of the house, which the buyer you pays. It doesn't come from the real estate agency. The price you pay for the house is fair market price, which you're ok with. It's not inflated a great deal to cover commissions. I don't see you complaining, unless you've never bought a house through a real-estate agent before. It may be greed to some, but a way of surviving and making a living for many others.

BCN is spreading awareness about bitcoin to new folks faster and better than you are doing by yourself in this forum or anywhere else. It's an approach that benefits the whole bitcoin community in general, and if adoption has an effect on bitcoin's rise in price, then BCN have in some way helped pushed for broader bitcoin awareness and movement wherever the members are in the world in the most efficient way you can think of, and maybe played a very small part in its value appreciation, including the value of your own bitcoin, if you own any.

Oh, let's say you had purchased $4800 in Bitcoin at the beginning of this year and held it rather than putting it into this MLM scheme as you did.  You would have purchased around 5 Bitcoin which would be worth US$28,000+ today - 9 months later.  TL;DR What did you make again? So where does the money come from?!?
Again, people who don't understand bitcoin and bitcoin mining make this mistake time and time again. Yes, I could have purchased 5 bitcoin at the start of the year. And that's what I did. And I paid BCN another $5,000 (in the form of 5 bitcoin) to get started in mining. A total of 10 BTC. There is a big difference between the two. Bitcoin is both a product and a service. The former serves as a store of value, the latter as a payment method. After their own analysis, people who want to invest in a bitcoin mining programme will buy into a mining programme for whatever reasons, for whatever returns, for whatever time frame, for whatever risks, whether it is paid in cash (USD) or cryptocurrency (BTC). BCN allows people at an individual level to find bitcoin mining viable. Otherwise, it will be left only to the big players who have millions of dollars to invest in tens of thousands of mining rigs at a go. Individual miners will eventually be phased out as the mining difficulty increases, and your chances of profiting from this industry will only be limited to being part of a large mining pool. If everyone thought the way you did and preferred to just buy bitcoin and hold, no one at an individual level would be doing bitcoin mining. Without the growth of the bitcoin network by people investing into mining hardware and contributing it to the network, it wouldn't cost as much as US$30 billion to hack the bitcoin network today and far easier to achieve more than 50% of the computational power of the network for a successful hack. As it is today, any hacker with that sort of resources would be better off doing mining himself than trying to hack the network. The bitcoin network looks after itself, so to speak.

Would it have been better if I had held onto 10 BTC instead of holding half and putting the other half into mining? I don't know, and neither do you. This is my way of diversifying investments. The earnings from mining alone could surpass this if we continue to mine long enough in the future, and the people who get into mining are eyeing on this. It is a calculated risk with cryptocurrency investments at a different level, compared to buying and holding. Likewise, trading cryptocurrencies has its risks at another level. Maybe I didn't enter at a suitable time (close to the start of a new halving era and bitcoin price). As the price of bitcoin climbs to what it is today and a founder pool costs only 0.62 btc at today's rate, mining becomes a viable alternative for accumulation of bitcoin in the long term. But you would have to be part of a large sustainable pool with mining done correctly in the right conditions to have a chance to succeed at this, not mining on your own pointing to a known pool and bearing pool fees and electricity costs and other overheads at your own expense. There are synergistic advantages to being an inherent part of running your own pool, provided it is large enough. Just keep track of BCN's hashrate in the next few months, and if you don't take everything you see at face value and can see the underlying reasons, you will understand why the referral commissions matter. Without a referral incentive in place and without new members contributing hashrates, the crowdfunded setup that BCN is would have failed in its very first few months in 2014.

Or course, not every investor sees it this way. Most people are selfish by nature and are more concerned about dollars and cents as their bottomline, or may even want to see quick returns, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if fewer people and companies went into mining and just bought and held bitcoin, the bitcoin in your hands would eventually be worth less. The strength and integrity of the bitcoin network today is the way it is because of the miners, not because of how many bitcoins everyone bought and held. For the self-serving ones who want to see quick profits, then yes, your advice applies. Just buy and hold, and sell a year or two later. Or join HYIPs and ponzis. In that same vein, maybe gold mining investors should not buy excavators and machineries to mine ounces and grams of gold daily, when they could just buy and hold tonnes of gold bullion with the same amount of money instead. Granted, bitcoin mining (as with gold mining) is a slow process, and is not for everyone and may not fit into everyone's investment portfolio.

How do you mine for 1000 days on a machine that becomes ineffective in half a year?  You don't, because it isn't possible.
That is why we have repurchases of partial shares. The warranty of machines from the manufacturer only last 365 days, so what gives? And since you asked, I will explain. Members continually contribute back selflessly (whether by intention or not because it is automated) to ensure that our hardware remains efficient and relevant. I have already mentioned that we had upgraded multiple times in the past, and had even upgraded twice within a year a couple of years ago with the S5 and S7. This is made possible because of the repurchase mechanism built into the platform. It is a selfless approach by design to ensure that the entire community continues to mine profitably for the long term. The operating hashrates over time can be found at https://bitclubpool.com/index.php?p=stats. These hashrates tally with the hashrate given at third party sites which BCN has not control of and cannot be faked. Those who have mined for at least 3 months with BCN will understand repurchase. Those who don't, think we are paying out from new membership fees (read above again on 30:70). The repurchases can now be set to 0%, for those who wish to claim maximum returns on a daily basis with no plans to do mining beyond the 1,000-day contract period.

Ah I see...Get paid in Bitcoin by referring friends family and loved ones.  Got it.
Covered above already. The images you posted do not come from BCN directly and were created by some members, who may use unethical methods or misrepresent information to get referrals (more below). The points made in those images may be true but they do not paint the whole picture. As mentioned in an earlier post, the commission structure in BCN are based on tried-and-tested MLM formula. Not everything that looks like that or have the word binary in it is a ponzi, although ponzis are based on binary. One is a subset of the other, and not the other way round. There is nothing wrong in getting paid in bitcoin for the effort you put in. And it takes a lot of effort explaining to people about bitcoin, let alone bitcoin mining. Definitely a whole lot more difficult and time-consuming than opening a door for you to view a property, selling you that property, and earning a commission from that purchase, which comes from you.

Some members have even registered the word "bitclub" in their domain names to make it look like they represent BCN, and then use fake testimonials and photographs to lure members. Hypothetically, if someone registered facebook.info and promoted "Facebook" using dubious means and fake testimonials, that does not make Facebook a scam. Admittedly, things could be better, and BCN could have purchased all the extensions for their domain name, but BCN is not Facebook or Google. They are more concerned with ensuring that the mining rigs are running at optimum efficiencies and mining earnings are paid daily to members on time. If you're mining with BCN, you would know. If you could differentiate between real and fake (phishing) websites, you would know too.


If you ever run out of points like everyone who tried to peddle misinformation about BCN has, you could always bring up that so-called sex-offender article up next and we can discuss. Or you could read up about that elsewhere.

I have meant for all of the above to be a summary, but got carried away trying to explain the intricacies of bitcoin mining for your education. If I have more time, I could tell you a lot more, but only if you're interested to learn. If you're just rehashing the same old false info that everyone before you has done, I simply don't have the time to explain.

Recommendation: Avoid.
Recommendation: Do your own due diligence and fact-finding, and decide if this is for you, as with all investments.

 You haven't debunked anything.  The BCN hash rate isn't faked - it simply isn't 100% controlled by BCN and there isn't a site on the internet that can tell you what portion is controlled by BCN.  This is why it was opened up to the public.  The MLM method is unsustainable and the hashing rate can never grow proportionally to the number of members. There simply isn't enough room after the cost of a miner plus hosting and electricity to pay multiple levels of commissions on sales of miners.  This is an unsustainable model fed by ignorant new members.

 I didn't say people shouldn't mine Bitcoin - don't misrepresent what I said.

  Since you brought it up, when the value of gold is lower than the cost to mine gold, mines go bankrupt; people lose jobs - because it's unsustainable.  Bitcoin mining is not currently unsustainable - your MLM model is unsustainable and only survives with the injections of cash from new members.

 Recommendation: Avoid

[jatin729]

TBH i will preferably Buying and holding bitcoins, because now a days Mining need too much investment needed best hardware with highest Hash rate for eg. Antminer. Mining is also difficult because it needs electricity, proper maintenance of hardware that makes hardware too expensive.

if we compare mining with buying and holding than buying and holding is very easy, just bought and hold and sell when price will high.
but buying and holding is involved risk always.