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Author Topic: Is BitCoinPlus a scam?  (Read 22816 times)
ex0420
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June 29, 2011, 10:32:34 PM
 #21

I use BCP and I have never had a problem. I use their embeded JS miner in my website and I get a nice 0.1 to 0.3BTC every week now. It takes around 2000 visitors to get that and even then it's pure luck mostly. As for paying out, i never tryied paying out a bitcent so I can't say but I have no problem getting 0.1 or more out. Cheesy
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BitcoinPorn
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June 29, 2011, 10:47:35 PM
 #22

I use it on two sites (prominently displaying that I use it), both links in my signature.  I am pleased with those emails explaining it.  The amount of random math that guy has probably had to do to work out something that is realistic for him to run the site and to be able to pay people out must be hell.

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June 29, 2011, 10:57:44 PM
 #23

The fee is per transaction, not per recipient. Assuming he's paying 10 people at a time out of a block he mined a few hours ago, he never would have to pay anywhere near .01 per recipient. Maybe it's a scam, but maybe he's just too lazy to group his transactions. If he keeps doing very small payouts from the same block, he's doing one transaction per payout and they're all going to be with newish coins.

I am an employee of Ripple.
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June 29, 2011, 11:06:03 PM
 #24

I use it on two sites (prominently displaying that I use it), both links in my signature.  I am pleased with those emails explaining it.  The amount of random math that guy has probably had to do to work out something that is realistic for him to run the site and to be able to pay people out must be hell.

+1
BitCoinBarter
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June 30, 2011, 01:34:10 AM
 #25

The fee is per transaction, not per recipient. Assuming he's paying 10 people at a time out of a block he mined a few hours ago, he never would have to pay anywhere near .01 per recipient. Maybe it's a scam, but maybe he's just too lazy to group his transactions. If he keeps doing very small payouts from the same block, he's doing one transaction per payout and they're all going to be with newish coins.

JK,

I read your post and was stunned.

The fee is per transaction. Why would it not be grouped?
Laziness or scamming? Guess what I would say  Wink.

This is not bring up the fact that the fees are now down to 0.0005 (if I am correct).

Do no evil,

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bizzy
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June 30, 2011, 01:41:06 AM
 #26

Assuming you get say 3 Mhash/s through bitcoinplus.com on a really beefy machine (guessing some might get that, but my machine only manages 0.6Mhash/s), you generate around 4 cents per day (according to http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php at current difficulty 1.37m). I would only get 0.8cents per day.

I expect results for power usage on other machines won't be much less than mine (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24278.msg301400#msg301400), which worked out to be 24W (the difference between running idle and running at 100% CPU). 1 day's usage would use around 0.58kWh (which costs me around 10 cents) - your electricity would need to be about 4 cents/kWh to just break even.

It Is Not Economical!

It would admittedly have some value as an introduction for new users to bitcoins if they could get a very low payout like the bitcoin faucet, but when the website owner insists on paying a 0.01 transaction fee it's likely to just put people off. (0.01BTC may have been appropriate a month ago, but it no longer is. For reference, the eligius pool will only process transactions with a minimum transaction fee of about 0.00004096, though I'm not 100% sure I've got the number of decimal places).

Further, I would consider it unethical to have users generate coins through an embedded miner on a 3rd party website without the users understanding that they are going to end up paying extra on their power bill.

I put this challenge to bitcoinplus.com -
1. Provide a clear notice to users indicating the transaction fee required
2. Reduce the transaction fee amount - if this means a delay in users getting payment, I think most would favour it (you could even give the users a choice so that they set their own priority)
BitCoinBarter
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June 30, 2011, 01:44:14 AM
 #27

I use BCP and I have never had a problem. I use their embeded JS miner in my website and I get a nice 0.1 to 0.3BTC every week now. It takes around 2000 visitors to get that and even then it's pure luck mostly. As for paying out, i never tryied paying out a bitcent so I can't say but I have no problem getting 0.1 or more out. Cheesy

I didn't have a problem with BCP until I tried to get BTC. Then I had problems.

Do no evil,

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elements
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June 30, 2011, 01:53:04 AM
 #28

Complete and utter scam!

Now that the min. transaction fee has been lowered I tried to finally extract my very hard earned 0.01074649 BTC (took about 6 full days on a MBP)...still takes 0.01 BTC transaction fee.

Looks like he is going to keep my coins for good (and those of uncountable others)!

SCAM - stay away!!!



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BitCoinBarter
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June 30, 2011, 02:03:41 AM
 #29

(0.01BTC may have been appropriate a month ago, but it no longer is. For reference, the eligius pool will only process transactions with a minimum transaction fee of about 0.00004096, though I'm not 100% sure I've got the number of decimal places).

I started with BCP on May 31, 2011 12:18 PM PDT and went to Jun 13, 2011 9:53 PM PDT (Their records).
Total payouts generated: 115 (Their records).
Balance: 0.01175757 BTC (Their records)

Total amount into my wallet from them: 0.00000000 (My records).

Do no evil,

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BitCoinBarter
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June 30, 2011, 02:04:57 AM
 #30

I use it on two sites (prominently displaying that I use it), both links in my signature.  I am pleased with those emails explaining it.  The amount of random math that guy has probably had to do to work out something that is realistic for him to run the site and to be able to pay people out must be hell.

+1
-2

Do no evil,

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gochk
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June 30, 2011, 04:35:41 PM
 #31

I have had similar experiences with Bitcoinplus.com
I mined (only when I have my computer on and working on other things) for 3 weeks, yes, 3 long weeks (difficulty rate reduced twice) to get to 0.01xxxx and when I tried to withdraw, the writings was there (FIRST TIME that I read it if I may add) ... 0.01 fee and not enough funds to withdraw.

Plus, I think the btc payout is much less than the pool mining; currently at 0.00003516 btc / share.

I totally agree that BitCoinPlus.com is a scam.

I have since stopped ... not going to use my computer power even when I'm doing other things and no extra electricity is involved. Other than that, there are no regulations to btc. What are you going to do?
BitCoinBarter
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June 30, 2011, 06:01:52 PM
 #32

Plus, I think the btc payout is much less than the pool mining; currently at 0.00003516 btc / share.

This means that it will take people longer to get to the magical non-payoff amount of 0.01.

Do no evil,

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gochk
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June 30, 2011, 08:21:32 PM
 #33

Plus, I think the btc payout is much less than the pool mining; currently at 0.00003516 btc / share.

This means that it will take people longer to get to the magical non-payoff amount of 0.01.

Exactly.

Hopefully the newbies coming in will read your thread and not fell for that. It's certainly very discouraging and a drag for btc
BitcoinPorn
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June 30, 2011, 08:52:57 PM
 #34

Not a scam. Not being used properly, ie, an individual user mining for themselves makes no sense.

As a replacement for advertisement on an ad heavy site, that would be awesome.   See my signature for an example.   I have an adult site which is more or less just a proof of concept until I have time to make something bigger and more focused.  Think of the pop up heavy torrent sites with false click ads and etc.  Fuck that bullshit, give up a little electricity for the web sites you are using, people do not know how much work goes into a decent site, and how little people click on ads.

I am not all about browser embedding should be on Wikipedia or something, though in a way, why not eliminate all the donate buttons, make the mining optional, and I guarantee enough of the visitors will gladly be giving up their electricity for the whole.

I will only say that BitcoinPlus could easily clarify their fees and overall structure, but they sure do not have to and they never say they are earning you cash, they are just earning you Bitcoin, it is up to you if you want to pay through their site rather than just running the OG client.

BitCoinBarter
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July 01, 2011, 01:09:35 AM
 #35

Not a scam. Not being used properly, ie, an individual user mining for themselves makes no sense.

Making sense is not the point. Disclosure is the point.

I will only say that BitcoinPlus could easily clarify their fees and overall structure, but they sure do not have to and they never say they are earning you cash, they are just earning you Bitcoin, it is up to you if you want to pay through their site rather than just running the OG client.

That is generous. The fact is that BCP does not "clarify" their fees and overall structure.

they never say they are earning you cash, they are just earning you Bitcoin
True. I was earning BitCoin which was not given to me.
Think of it like this. You have a job.

The first time you go to get paid (i.e., you earned your first payout), you are told that you did not work long enough (i.e., you need at least 0.01 before we will transfer BTC to you). Odd, you think. This was not brought up before, however...

Then you work long enough and go to get paid again (i.e., you get at least 0.01). Now you are told that you can not get paid because of a tax (i.e., a transaction fee). Odd again. You would think that would have been brought up the last time.

To get paid now, you would have to continue to work (i.e., 0.02). Of course if you choose to get paid then, you would have to give up have of your money (i.e., BTC) to taxes (i.e., transaction fees). You have found out that the taxes has dropped (0.0005?), however they are still going to charge you the old rate (i.e., 0.01).

The question now is, should you continue to work and hope something else does come up*?

it is up to you if you want to pay through their site rather than just running the OG client.

Not sure what you mean by this. Please explain.

I would write this. BCP has "abused" me.

Since you are not a stranger to porn, I give you permission to change the word "abused" to someyhing that you may feel is more suited to the situation  Smiley.

* You are only told things when you are trying to get paid (i.e., transfer BTC to yourself). When you get to 0.02, you could be told something like, "Sorry, we can not transfer BTC to you because the moon is not aligned to Mars. It is not our fault, we can not control the planets. The alignment will be on this date (i.e., 0.03).

Do no evil,

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BitcoinPorn
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July 01, 2011, 01:14:21 AM
 #36

Without picking apart your post, which is tempting lol, I will say I feel bad for the situation.  I can step back and realize that if I were not knowing fully the situation on web based browsing, and was presented with their site, I would easily think that the benefits of browsing on a single computer would outweigh the cost of the electricity used to generate the Bitcoin.

Random thought, when the site was started the cost to generate a coin itself was much less I'm sure.

BitCoinBarter
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July 01, 2011, 03:22:03 AM
 #37

I would easily think that the benefits of browsing on a single computer would outweigh the cost of the electricity used to generate the Bitcoin.

I did not think that and that is not the point I'm trying to prove (which I'm not doing a good job of doing).
I went there under the (mis)understanding that I could get BitCoins.

You believe (if I am correct), that it is not a scam. I assume that you have received BTC into your wallet(s) from them. Is this correct?

If so, have you done it lately?

Assuming this is yes to both questions, then that does not make it not a scam. It just means that you were paid. I suggest you get your BTC from them as soon as you can. Why? Would it hurt you to assume that I am right (just in case)?

I assume you have much more knowledge about BTC and websites then I do. Take that knowledge and go BCP's site.
Assuming you know nothing about BCP, however you still have your knowledge.  You then decide* that you wanted to use that site to generate BTCs for you.

Will you know the following?:

That when you get a payout (this is what it is called on their site), you can not transfer that to your wallet until you get at least 0.01 BTC.

That once you get to 0.01 BTC, you can not have any BTC transferred to your wallet because of fees.  You may wonder why they are charging 0.01 since this was lowered with the newest BTC client.

If you know things things, then how would a less knowledge knowledgeable person know this? Could you provide some links?

What could I do? I could take the owner of the site to court. The problem with that is the following:

-The amount of money in BTC (for the amount I was cheated out of) is worth is less then $1.00.
-It will cost at least $25.00 (my guess) to fill a small case claim.
-I will have to hire a P.I. to find the owner and pay to have them served. Not sure how much that would cost, however I guess it would be more then $25.00
-They would not show up in court and I would get a default judgement for $1. Hopefully the judge will also award me court costs.

Will I do that? No and this is why the scam is good. Very few (if any) people will do that for less then $1.00.
The scam counts on this. Keep in mind, that a penny (i.e., $0.01) is a small amount. Even with times being hard as it is, everyone can come up with a penny. As small amount of money that is, I would love it if everyone in the world gave me a penny. It would add up.

BCP is scamming people, a little BTC at a time.
That is wrong, even if they are not scamming everyone (assuming you are not being scammed yet).  

* Set aside the reasons why it is not a good ideal to do this. Maybe it was because of a bet. Maybe you got drunk and/or stoned.

Do no evil,

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July 01, 2011, 03:41:29 AM
 #38

I wouldn't cash out at such a low number, I now see another difference between us and this situation lol. 

BitCoinBarter
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July 01, 2011, 05:47:08 AM
 #39

I wouldn't cash out at such a low number, I now see another difference between us and this situation lol. 

Thank you for responding.
You are right, it is a difference.

I don't consider it cashing out. I consider it removing my BTC from their control, to my control.

Could you please respond again and answer the following questions?

I assume that you have received BTC into your wallet(s) from them. Is this correct?
If so, have you done it lately?

Would it hurt you to assume that I am right (just in case)?

Do you own or have another type of relationship with BCP?

Assuming you know nothing about BCP, will you know the following (by going to their site)?:

-That when you get a payout (this is what it is called on their site), you can not transfer that to your wallet until you get at least 0.01 BTC.

-That once you get to 0.01 BTC, you can not have any BTC transferred to your wallet because of fees.
-Why the fees are 0.01 vice the now lower amount?

-If you know things things, then how would a less knowledgeable person know this?
-Could you provide some links?

Do no evil,

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July 01, 2011, 06:48:54 AM
 #40

The same thing happened to me when I first started with them early this month.  I traded emails with Donny, too. And he was like "yeah, I guess it does seem scammy" and "I'll have to put it on there" but never did. He has 0.0100413 of MY bitcoins.  But I say Karma's a bitch.  So I let him keep it.

(Started on June 9th, and generated 143 baby payouts)


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