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Author Topic: [Split topic] Speculation, capitalism, etc.  (Read 5376 times)
FreeMoney
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November 09, 2010, 07:38:04 AM
 #61

Well, that wasn't very clear.  After all, you *did* write "criminal is whatever gov says is a crime".

yeah, what's wrong with that statement? It's true, isn't it?

However criminal doesn't necessarily mean wrong as has been pointed out that many outlandish things were criminal in the past that are not considered wrong now. The same goes for current laws ... most of them are lobbied for by the corporations trying to destroy their competition, get rid of regulations or give them certain advantages.

There is a difference between illegal and wrong, illegal (criminal) is whatever gov says is illegal ... wrong is what you morally consider wrong regardless of it's legality. I hope it's clear now ...

There is no government. There are only people who will hurt you for not doing as they say and people who won't. I won't hurt you and I won't command anyone to hurt you. I will buy and sell my bitcoins for whatever price I want whenever I want.

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November 09, 2010, 03:15:00 PM
 #62

Okay Macho, help me understand more clearly what you are saying.

Are you saying that you believe speculation and sweatshops etc. are 'morally wrong', and you are spreading your viewpoint that they are morally wrong and that is all?  Are you saying that you would never support governmental prohibitions on these activities, just moral suasion?  Are you saying you would actually oppose a government who attempted to ban speculation?

If that is what you are saying, then I apologize for my early posts linking you to those tyrannizing moralizers of the 20th century, Communism and Fascism.

I fully support your right to free speech, including the right to persuade others of one's opinions, no matter how wrong-headed those opinions are.  If, however you do support the use of force (ie: the state) to impose your 'morality' on others, then we're back to square one.

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November 09, 2010, 05:03:41 PM
 #63

btw if you endorse intentional speculation for the sole purpose of profit then I'm still calling you a scumbag Cheesy LOL

What about "speculation for the sole purpose of LOSING money"...  Are you saying that That's ok with you...?   ha ha

Speculation and "Ponzi schemes"... are simply gambling.  Nothing more and nothing less.   Gambling.    By DEFINITION, gambling involves risk -- great risk.   That means they often LOSE all of the money they're playing with.

You can say that gambling is "morally wrong".   But I totally disagree.   If the player of the game understands the terms and rules of the game, then it's certainly fair for them to play that game.

It harms no one.   (Unless they do it compulsively, to their own detriment.  But that's an entirely different topic.  Like drinking so much water that you drown yourself.  Too much of anything can kill you.)

In fact, YOUR very own bitcoin holdings are likely worth much more today than they were last month.  Likely, that increase in value is at least partially a result of investment by speculators.   So, since you believe that that increase in value is "morally wrong"...  Obviously, it would be "morally wrong" to profit from it (even though you took no risks at all, by the way. none whatsoever.)...  Who are you going to donate all that increased value to?   Some charity?  Some anti-gambling organization?   Of course, by your own logic....  It would be "morally wrong" for you to keep any increase in its value.    Right?!?
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November 09, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
 #64

I think this kinda sums up how I feel too...

I am proud of this community. Despite Macho's insults, you guys play it swell and didn't insult Macho back.
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November 09, 2010, 07:46:01 PM
 #65

@creighto you are self-contradicting yourself and are generally very confused about what you're talking about. If I was actually paying you for your services I would ask for my money back Wink

You are confusing two things ... the fact that you're free to do something/anything and the fact how are you going to be judged when you do and how is it going to affect you.


I'm not confused at all.  I certainly hope that you are a teenager, because if you are an adult, you have a hard life ahead of you.  This conversation has reminded me of a saying from an old Russian immigrant, "If you are not a communist at twenty, then you have no heart; if you are still a communist at thirty, then you have no sense."

Quote

But I got attacked for pointing out these ponzi schemes,


No, you were attacked for being a cocksure wanker.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 09, 2010, 07:46:42 PM
 #66

I think this kinda sums up how I feel too...

I am proud of this community. Despite Macho's insults, you guys play it swell and didn't insult Macho back.


Well, I just broke that discipline.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 09, 2010, 07:49:24 PM
 #67

Well, that wasn't very clear.  After all, you *did* write "criminal is whatever gov says is a crime".

yeah, what's wrong with that statement? It's true, isn't it?


No, it's not.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 10, 2010, 01:00:57 AM
 #68

My suspicions are confirmed, the "bitcoin community" (at least the significant part parroting their religious economic beliefs) is just a bunch of gullible children trotting out their holy text they've been indoctrinated into. They think that pretty charts and lines represent wealth and that profit is above all and justifies anything and everything. It's this kind of useful idiots who allowed the current crisis to materialize ... but they never learn, it's a religion and not to be questioned. Independent thought? Questioning the dogma? No!, Go away heretic ... we have Ludwig von Mises to tell us the ultimate truth! Ignore the real world, quick!

It's common but very immature to call somebody an "indoctrinated religious fanatic who can't think for himself and ignores reality" because he disagrees with you in a debate. These kinds of feelings are usually the speaker's own cognitive bias. Even if you're sure that it's not just your emotional fuss from the debate, it's better to keep these kinds of thoughts for yourself as they lead the discussion in no good direction.

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