NOT Upgrading to SegWit who's with me?!

[Meuh6879]

nodes for me ... are with a COMPLETE local blockchain.

when you have 102GB since 2009, i take care about the size of a block ... and love the SPAM feature include in this actual restriction of 1Mb (976kb).

i accept Segwit because it solves something.
block inflate solve NOTHING AT ALL.

---

are you even use the freenet network ... and learn what it's to decentralize the storage of a whole network over time ?

[RawDog]

nodes for me ... are with a COMPLETE local blockchain.

when you have 102GB since 2009, i take care about the size of a block ... and love the SPAM feature include in this actual restriction of 1Mb (976kb).

i accept Segwit because it solves something.
block inflate solve NOTHING AT ALL.

---

are you even use the freenet network ... and learn what it's to decentralize the storage of a whole network over time ?

I'll tell you what, I know computer hardware is very scarce in France, and that they typically get versions of things about 3 years late, but I'll pay for and send you a hard drive with 2 terabytes on it.  I know if you are French it seems impossible to have a hard drive with such capacity, but in the rest of the world these are so fucking cheap they are nearly free.  102GB is TINY.  Laughably tiny.  Your French node can get upgraded to 2000GB for less than 50 Euro.  Are you still afraid of 102GB (7 years of blockchain)?  

[franky1]

I'll tell you what, I know computer hardware is very scarce in France,

your lack of understanding other countries seems to be your Achilles heel. you seem to be very biased about america and treat other countries as inferior or a threat
even a simple google search found 2tb hard drives available in france
http://www.darty.com/nav/achat/mp/informatique/disque_dur_cle_usb/disque_dur_interne/seagate_technology_seagate_barracuda_7200_14_sata_6gb_s_2_to__MK154801146.html


though you seem OVER patriotic to america. your sense of awareness of other countries and your racist hypocrisy leaves me to let you watch this.
https://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs?t=32s
dont just watch the first minute. watch it all. it will awaken you that america is not great and perfect

[RawDog]

https://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs?t=32s
dont just watch the first minute.

lol - I am not even going to watch the first second.  That anti-American rubbish is all a bunch of contrived shit for consumption by morons.  You probably enjoyed it very much.

[jbreher]

Was the $1 billion dollars stolen from MtGOX an 'over hyped exaggeration' ?

Well, two over-hyped exaggerations for the price of one, maybe.

1) Was not a billion. Less than half a billion.
    1a) ...and the half billion is calculated using the fake inflated WillyBot price, so really... much lower.
2) The Karpeles claim that the MtGox implosion was the result of malleability was an obvious lie.

Let's keep it real out there, gentlemen.

[franky1]

https://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs?t=32s
dont just watch the first minute.

lol - I am not even going to watch the first second.  That anti-American rubbish is all a bunch of contrived shit for consumption by morons.  You probably enjoyed it very much.

here is america reporting on ITSELF
28th out of 188

[RawDog]

OK - you low grade nut job, I've got to go home now and kick my dog and fuck my wife.  I'll beat the shit out of you more tomorrow.

[franky1]

back to the topic
i am a realist. i dont oversell exaggerate things and i dont kiss ass to any particular group.

all of segwit 'features' are exaggerated and just kicking the stone down the road, delaying REAL chances of scaling and REAL growth.
basically bait and switching.

no malleability to double spend. so core adds atleast 3 new mechanisms to cause double spends (facepalm).. end result is that double spends are still an issue.
the bribary 'segwit tx fee discount' is not bringing prices back below 1cent. it instead will bring prices to 4cents.. the same average as 6-12 months ago.

this is done by adding new things to push the price forward so the price when discounted is just reverting to prices AFTER hyping up segwit last year.

the tx increase of 1.8x-2.1x is based on 100% of users using segwit. so dont expect that in reality.

new features like CLTV and CSV combined to be a real world reality for LN users of 'chargebacks'
CLTV add a 'maturity' date that is much like having funds put on hold and not available balance (like mining rewards have a 100block maturity)
CSV have a revoke code ability that during this maturity period. the other LN party can revoke the funds (chargeback)
making LN a paypal/visa 2.0. yep you can do lots of tx's real fast, but when it comes to settling. you have to wait and hope your settlement is not revoked/charged back

[Dahhi]

Infact there are more miners who are not in support of SEGWIT than those in support of it. But looking at things, Segwit has come to stay - it seems

[hv_]

Seen from an analytic perspective (try to be a bitcoin-outsider) the situation looks like this:


Core & BU are both willing to solve the needs and have provided 2 controversial solutions.


If  one of those solutions have the class of a 'no-brainer' (as many try to chill / dictate in different forums & ways)  - so why is there any need to discuss this?


So either one of those solutions is not such a 'no-brainer'  = they failed to deliver

or


core / BU  failed on convincing / marketing their solution.


Both do not lead to anything thats a no-brainer.

Only way out of this dead lock:

Combine core & BU solutions (I 'd recommend) and try again  or fork...

Cheers

[franky1]

Only way out of this dead lock:
Combine core & BU solutions (I 'd recommend) and try again

[Mike8]

I use lite wallet, like many others. So no SegWit signaling.
How many have signaled SegWit? 25%? 30%? There is a fricking long way until 95% and we can safely say "it's not gonna happen".
Dynamic block size WTG!

[Gimpeline]

I use lite wallet, like many others. So no SegWit signaling.
How many have signaled SegWit? 25%? 30%? There is a fricking long way until 95% and we can safely say "it's not gonna happen".
Dynamic block size WTG!

It's just been a few weeks. Give it some time.
It's not going to 95% over night

[btcxyzzz]

Segwit is poison pill for Bitcoin. Accept it if you want the Bitcoin to be destroyed.

[ebliever]

I don't see any basis for opposition to Segwit from this thread. The allegation is made that allowing Segwit will open the door to Blockstream (or whomever) creating off-chain payment channels that they can earn a profit on. Well, so what? If they succeed with the LN, sidechains, or whatever, is there anything in SegWit or anything else being discussed that will FORCE me to use their off-chain payment channel? Looks like the answer is no, so I can just choose to keep making on-chain transfers.

In other words, people seem to be afraid of increased choice, with no loss of the current option of doing on-chain TX. Does that make any sense?

youre ignoring the basics here
if the block stays at 1MB everyone will be shoehorned onto LN whether they want to be or not
the space in the 1mb block will become so expensive that only businesses like coinbase etc can afford to use it

if we had dynamic blocks + LN at least there would be some choice ,if LN is cheaper ,faster and better everyone will use it anyway so why the need to force them ?

This thread is about Segwit. You can have Segwit with blocks of any size. The two are not inherently related, except in the sense that if one solves a need it may reduce motivation to adopt the other. And that seems to be the driving concern of the big-block advocates here - I sense strong anxiety that Segwit could "work" and that would somehow prevent larger blocks.

This doesn't make much sense to me. If Segwit takes hold and TX capacity is still too small and TX fees keep rising, OF COURSE we can look at upping the block size. There is no rule that says that if we accept Segwit then we are stuck at 1 MB forever and ever.

Also - I'd point out that Moore's Law died a long while ago, which many folks don't seem to grasp yet. The off-the-shelf desktop computer I bought in 2009 with 8 GB of RAM still has more RAM than many new machines being sold today. When I shopped for a hard drive, I was surprised that HD capacities have barely budged as well - maybe 2X in a similar timeframe. And from what I've been reading about die shrink roadmaps and so forth, the end of the road is in sight (c. 2021) for increased density of information storage. So I would not blithely count on blockchain bloat being solved by ever-larger storage capacities in the future.

[Meuh6879]

and we talk about SSD now.
have you buy a mecanical magnetic drive again ... for other than a backup (no 24h/24 plugged) ?

no.
I have replace all my HDD by SSD since 2 years now because the price is OK (less than 200 USD).


strangely, it's the Bitcoin Full Node that it has the bigger SSD = 500GB.  
that's why i talk always about the Storage.
not a backup : a efficiently (fast) and reliability storage (chip).

September 2016 :

December 2016 :

[ebliever]

and we talk about SSD now.

And what is your plan once SSD storage density maxes out in the next few years while the blockchain keeps growing?

I think some combination of off-chain and sidechain type TX strategies will be inevitable for most bitcoin TX. The idea of bitcoin going mainstream with the resulting GB-sized blocks every few minutes just is not realistic. Alternatively we can accept the idea of bitcoin as a rarely-traded "digital gold" but that wrecks the dreams of every bitcoin entrepreneur who is trying to mainstream it for everyday use.

[RawDog]

and we talk about SSD now.
have you buy a mecanical magnetic drive again ... for other than a backup (no 24h/24 plugged) ?

no.
I have replace all my HDD by SSD since 2 years now because the price is OK (less than 200 USD).


strangely, it's the Bitcoin Full Node that it has the bigger SSD = 500GB.  
that's why i talk always about the Storage.
not a backup : a efficiently (fast) and reliability storage (chip).

September 2016 :

December 2016 :

lol.  What the fuck are you talking about? 

[RawDog]

and we talk about SSD now.

And what is your plan once SSD storage density maxes out in the next few years while the blockchain keeps growing?

There is no requirement that a local blockchain be keep on a single disk.  It is possible to store a blockchain on a disk array. BAM!!!  Now your node can have 400TB with ease and cheap.  Cheap, cheap, cheap.  Storage is not a problem and it never will be.  You probably won't be able to effect a node on your laptop.  But, a node can have a cheap disk array on the backend and this will accommodate a blockchain that is pretty fucking big. 

[kiklo]

perfect!
i'm not a technician but from everything i've seen it's the best solution for the problems we have right now(i've upgraded already).

a few users always try to go against it, but generally it's just like this thread:
"i'm not upgrading! reasons? because i dont want to".

sometimes starts a whole conspiracy theory, but i never seen any fact.

Here you admit you really don't understand what is being discussed => i'm not a technician

Then you claim knowledge to a Solution to a Problem , You Don't Understand => it's the best solution for the problems

On one hand you are stupid , on the other hand you claim to have the answer.  

Is that it or would you like to contradict yourself some more in the same sentence.


Fact : You claim to be a miner, meaning you make some % off of the transaction fees.
Fact : LN needs Segwit to activate.
Fact : LN is Offchain , meaning you will not receive any fees for the trillions of transactions that take place OFFCHAIN
         You will only receive fees with they are ONCHAIN transactions. (Which LN will Reduce.)  

If you can not see how that will lower the % of fee money you receive, I don't think you are going to last as a miner for too much longer.

Plus Next Block Reward Halving Date is 02 Jul 2020 .
You might want to read : On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward
http://randomwalker.info/publications/mining_CCS.pdf

IXcoin block reward just ended, and their network is basically dead.
If Ixcoin dies then Bitcoin is also doomed
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1713542.0