What's so bad about accepting paypal payments for bitcoin

[bitcoinuser12345]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

If you are selling cellphones or anything for that matter, why are you not all paranoid about accepting credit/debit card payments? But as soon as bitcoin is being sold everyone warns countless times to not accept a credit/debit card? I don't get it    

edit:
To answer all the people saying they can file a claim with paypal for item not received, you can always agree with the buyer to ship an empty envelope and tell paypal that it's a gift card so paypal can see a tracking number but you and the buyer are really exchanging bitcoin without paypal knowing. 

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[Pursuer]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

If you are selling cellphones or anything for that matter, why are you not all paranoid about accepting credit/debit card payments? But as soon as bitcoin is being sold everyone warns countless times to not accept a credit/debit card? I don't get it      

when you are seeling cellphones you are a registered company with a reputation and if you for example use any of these methods even paypal payment, the buyer can not easily file a charge back and also even if they successfully do it, the seller can file a complaint and Paypal will also respond to it.

but when it comes to bitcoin Paypal is not so accepting, and they don't care and if I am not mistaken they don't even allow buy/selling of bitcoin with their system. so you are breaking their ToS by doing this. and I know for a fact that they don't respond to charge back complaints regarding bitcoin.

[bitcoinuser12345]

But if that's the real reason why people advise not to sell bitcoin on paypal then won't that be easy to get around? You can agree with the buyer to sell btc but on paypal make sure the note says you're selling some random item and then you can ship the buyer an empty envelope just to show a tracking number on paypal but the buyer got his btc and you got your $$.

Selling btc in that way is like selling pretty much any other item but people seem to get extra paranoid when it's btc being sold.

[Pursuer]

But if that's the real reason why people advise not to sell bitcoin on paypal then won't that be easy to get around? You can agree with the buyer to sell btc but on paypal make sure the note says you're selling some random item and then you can ship the buyer an empty envelope just to show a tracking number on paypal but the buyer got his btc and you got your $$.

Selling btc in that way is like selling pretty much any other item but people seem to get extra paranoid when it's btc being sold.

I didn't say buying goods with paypal was perfect. it is obviously a flawed system, and if you read the bitcoin white paper one of the reasons for a system like bitcoin is to rely on the reverse type of trust meaning customers trust one seller or shop not the shop trusting many customers.

selling goods has for paypal always been based on trusting the shop, you see the reputation and buy from it, and that scenario when they send an empty envelope is rare and can easily be proven because an envelope with goods in it is heavy and there are some post office regulations that may help proving that easier.

in the end everything comes down to trust between two parties and in bitcoin an escrow comes in.

[jaceefrost]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

If you are selling cellphones or anything for that matter, why are you not all paranoid about accepting credit/debit card payments? But as soon as bitcoin is being sold everyone warns countless times to not accept a credit/debit card? I don't get it    

Bitcoin is different from cellphones. Most users refuse to accept paypal as payment if bitcoin is related because once chargebacked providing proof that the item was delivered with bitcoin is hard because it is not a good. afaik it is also against paypal to buy and sell bitcoin. I am not sure tho.

[TastyChillySauce00]

As far as I know. Paypal is actually forbidden any kind of cryptocurrencies transaction. Therefore, every chargeback request may have big chance to be approved by Paypal. But,while if you're using Paypal for a usual transaction such as cell phones, or any electronics you will be required to provide enough proof to prove that you're not going to make a fake chargeback request and be sure to punish only the ones who have the intention to scam.
This feature sometimes really useful but in Otherside could be a dangerous threat

[pooya87]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

If you are selling cellphones or anything for that matter, why are you not all paranoid about accepting credit/debit card payments? But as soon as bitcoin is being sold everyone warns countless times to not accept a credit/debit card? I don't get it      

people are always warning not to accept paypal as payment not credit card as payment.
you can see at least a couple of exchanges are accepting credit cards already without any problems. an example would be cex.io which is an old and reputable exchange that you can easily (after getting verified) deposit and withdraw money with your credit card.

[thebatletbet]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

I think is good idea if paypal company in official can acepted deposit and withdraw in there use bitcoin
big company support bitcoin is very good not bad
can incraese bitcoin user , trust incraese too , incraese volume transaction, and incraese bitcoin price

[buwaytress]

But if that's the real reason why people advise not to sell bitcoin on paypal then won't that be easy to get around? You can agree with the buyer to sell btc but on paypal make sure the note says you're selling some random item and then you can ship the buyer an empty envelope just to show a tracking number on paypal but the buyer got his btc and you got your $$.

Selling btc in that way is like selling pretty much any other item but people seem to get extra paranoid when it's btc being sold.

You're missing the point I guess. If Paypal ToS already deems bitcoin sales as illegal then any transaction is illegal. Not only is the buyer not protected, you risk funds being frozen.

Paypal is not my favourite at all.

[bitcoinuser12345]

But if that's the real reason why people advise not to sell bitcoin on paypal then won't that be easy to get around? You can agree with the buyer to sell btc but on paypal make sure the note says you're selling some random item and then you can ship the buyer an empty envelope just to show a tracking number on paypal but the buyer got his btc and you got your $$.

Selling btc in that way is like selling pretty much any other item but people seem to get extra paranoid when it's btc being sold.

You're missing the point I guess. If Paypal ToS already deems bitcoin sales as illegal then any transaction is illegal. Not only is the buyer not protected, you risk funds being frozen.

Paypal is not my favourite at all.

Did you even read the post you quoted? I suggested selling some random item on paypal. The bitcoin sale will be a personal agreement between you and the buyer. Paypal is the payment medium for selling an envelope or something. When you get paid for the envelope, you send the buyer bitcoin along with the envelope. Paypal does not know that bitcoin is involved in the transaction.

[piloder]

The bitcoin sale will be a personal agreement between you and the buyer. Paypal is the payment medium for selling an envelope or something. When you get paid for the envelope, you send the buyer bitcoin along with the envelope. Paypal does not know that bitcoin is involved in the transaction.

Actually paypal don't create chargebacks, buyer need to be trusted to not open any charge backs against his payment to you. In terms of sales of goods buyer can file chargeback upto 180 days from the date of payment so when buyers will have bitcoin they can instantly create chargeback and most of the time buyers will win. What proof you will show paypal that you have actually delivered goods to buyer? also paypal will not believe that you are sending empty envelope for $100.

[bitcoinuser12345]

The bitcoin sale will be a personal agreement between you and the buyer. Paypal is the payment medium for selling an envelope or something. When you get paid for the envelope, you send the buyer bitcoin along with the envelope. Paypal does not know that bitcoin is involved in the transaction.

Actually paypal don't create chargebacks, buyer need to be trusted to not open any charge backs against his payment to you. In terms of sales of goods buyer can file chargeback upto 180 days from the date of payment so when buyers will have bitcoin they can instantly create chargeback and most of the time buyers will win. What proof you will show paypal that you have actually delivered goods to buyer? also paypal will not believe that you are sending empty envelope for $100.

That 180 days to file a charge back thing was the point of my original post. What's stopping the buyer from filing a charge back with any other item? Nothing. So why are people extra paranoid about selling bitcoin but not as paranoid about physical items? What makes bitcoin so prone to charge backs more than any other item?

And it doesn't have to be an empty envelope for $100. I can send the buyer an empty envelope but tell paypal that it is a gift card being sold. That way the weight and price of the shipped item will not seem absurd.

[BingoDog]

It doesn't have to necessery be bad but it could. Because od chargeback, many users have already explained that. So the other side can claim the money back. But if you find trusted trader everything could go very smoothly, personaly I have good experience. You have to be careful but not paranoic.

[iram3130]

I think there was another thread which was of similar topic and my answer would be same. If you don't know the person who is sending you the money or if you don't have the proof of the transaction for future then it is much possible that the other person will revert the PayPal transaction. You need to be very careful when you use PayPal. 

[BoXXoB]

It doesn't have to necessery be bad but it could. Because od chargeback, many users have already explained that. So the other side can claim the money back. But if you find trusted trader everything could go very smoothly, personaly I have good experience. You have to be careful but not paranoic.

Paranoia is not bad at all when dealing with PayPal. Any user can be legit now but anything could happen as time passes. The problem is that PayPal chargebacks are possible not days, weeks or months but even after over a year since the payment. There's really no way to guarantee you'll be safe.

I personally take a very strict line of accepting no PayPal payments regarding crypto unless I personally know who I am dealing with.

[KWH]

The bitcoin sale will be a personal agreement between you and the buyer. Paypal is the payment medium for selling an envelope or something. When you get paid for the envelope, you send the buyer bitcoin along with the envelope. Paypal does not know that bitcoin is involved in the transaction.

Actually paypal don't create chargebacks, buyer need to be trusted to not open any charge backs against his payment to you. In terms of sales of goods buyer can file chargeback upto 180 days from the date of payment so when buyers will have bitcoin they can instantly create chargeback and most of the time buyers will win. What proof you will show paypal that you have actually delivered goods to buyer? also paypal will not believe that you are sending empty envelope for $100.

That 180 days to file a charge back thing was the point of my original post. What's stopping the buyer from filing a charge back with any other item? Nothing. So why are people extra paranoid about selling bitcoin but not as paranoid about physical items? What makes bitcoin so prone to charge backs more than any other item?

And it doesn't have to be an empty envelope for $100. I can send the buyer an empty envelope but tell paypal that it is a gift card being sold. That way the weight and price of the shipped item will not seem absurd.

BTC is a digital item. Read Paypal's TOS on digital items. This topic has been beat to death and a simple search would have yielded scores of pages with your answer.

[buwaytress]

But if that's the real reason why people advise not to sell bitcoin on paypal then won't that be easy to get around? You can agree with the buyer to sell btc but on paypal make sure the note says you're selling some random item and then you can ship the buyer an empty envelope just to show a tracking number on paypal but the buyer got his btc and you got your $$.

Selling btc in that way is like selling pretty much any other item but people seem to get extra paranoid when it's btc being sold.

You're missing the point I guess. If Paypal ToS already deems bitcoin sales as illegal then any transaction is illegal. Not only is the buyer not protected, you risk funds being frozen.

Paypal is not my favourite at all.

Did you even read the post you quoted? I suggested selling some random item on paypal. The bitcoin sale will be a personal agreement between you and the buyer. Paypal is the payment medium for selling an envelope or something. When you get paid for the envelope, you send the buyer bitcoin along with the envelope. Paypal does not know that bitcoin is involved in the transaction.

No of course I didn't read the quote and randomly quoted. I apologise, your suggestion is perfectly legal and legitimate; as long as PayPal doesn't know bitcoin is involved. It should be a sticky post for anyone wishing to buy bitcoin with PayPal! Well done!

[davis196]

So everyone says it's such a bad idea to accept paypal payments for bitcoin since charge backs are so easily done. But how is this not a major problem for every other product?

If you are selling cellphones or anything for that matter, why are you not all paranoid about accepting credit/debit card payments? But as soon as bitcoin is being sold everyone warns countless times to not accept a credit/debit card? I don't get it    

edit:
To answer all the people saying they can file a claim with paypal for item not received, you can always agree with the buyer to ship an empty envelope and tell paypal that it's a gift card so paypal can see a tracking number but you and the buyer are really exchanging bitcoin without paypal knowing. 

It`s bad becasue of the number of the scammers who cheat people.

Using Paypal for selling goods and services is OK with the paypal rules.

Using paypal to exchange currencies isn`t OK with their rules.That`s why it`s a major problem.

[kolloh]

It is too easy for people to reverse Paypal payments so it isn't very safe for the Seller to accept this form of payment. I would only do it if you trust the buyer or know them personally.

[spiritglove]

I sold BTC on Ebay, accepting Paypal as the payment method. 80% of my sales went to charge back. Paypal will not guarantee digital downloads, or digital services. So if you sell BTC using Paypal you have to mail something to the buyer with a tracking # or you get screwed. Now Paypal is telling me, that there needs to be signed delivery confirmation.
 Paypal employees are sitting on top of the BIGGEST SCAM ever perpetuated by a financial institution. They use any excuse to deny the seller his money. SO Paypal employees buy all the BTC they want with Paypal and get their all their money back.