Someone please help me to understand the shitcoin pump and dump...

[strasboug]

I observed that many shitcoins come out on a daily basis. I call them shitcoins, because you can see clearly they are copy-and-paste coins, with nothing new other than some changes of parameters, and usually huge amount of premines. The devs aim at quick dump and try to make some money.

When these coins hit the exchanges, often there are some pump and dump. Someone, artificially pump the price for a while, then he will dump, and many such coin the price will go to 1 sat, with no one buying, usually it's the dead of the coin. The "dev" may start another coin etc.

Question is: how can these people make money? initially, there will be some people mine the coins, and they will dump all once the exchange exist. If dev artificially pump the price, will any people really follow him and buy?? I won't imagine there are people so stupid and let dev with huge premine to dump. So I think dev's pump is useless as those who mined the coin will dump regardless. But why I still see many pump then followed by dump in these shitcoins??

[NeuroticFish]

It's known that there are many that invest in all they can because "it has a chance to rise".
And it's known that there are many speculators and speculator wannabes which, when the price rises, they buy, hoping to sell with profit.

A widely seen pattern for new coins (or at least from my knowledge) is high starting price, dump, big fall in the price, then, depending on the coin, some recover and rise, some not.
This means that many are not scared by the fact the price falls a lot at start. If the coin is good, they will earn after months or years, if not, they are bagholders with useless coins.

My guess is that the successful scam-devs are good manipulators. You need to invest carefully to create some hype around your coin, else the scam may fail.
I am almost certain that not all scam coin PND made the devs richer, but some did very good (heh..) scams.

[Red Fish]

There are a lot of people, who want to make profit from altcoins and are ready to invest. So they just start to buy in a hope, that they will make a lot. Altcoin price go up, but demand is low, so they will loose instead of profit. And after a time, they make another altcoin and start again.

[strasboug]

It's known that there are many that invest in all they can because "it has a chance to rise".
And it's known that there are many speculators and speculator wannabes which, when the price rises, they buy, hoping to sell with profit.

A widely seen pattern for new coins (or at least from my knowledge) is high starting price, dump, big fall in the price, then, depending on the coin, some recover and rise, some not.
This means that many are not scared by the fact the price falls a lot at start. If the coin is good, they will earn after months or years, if not, they are bagholders with useless coins.

My guess is that the successful scam-devs are good manipulators. You need to invest carefully to create some hype around your coin, else the scam may fail.
I am almost certain that not all scam coin PND made the devs richer, but some did very good (heh..) scams.

I agree with most what you said. However, those who may rise again from depressed price are usually early fork of some new coins, like for example after zcash was out, there's a clone called zclassic, where there are quite some people mining and support. But I am talking on those coins with normal scrypt, SHA256, X11/X13 etc, really nothing new and nothing attractive, and sometimes the dev does not even bother to promo, but still sometimes I can see pumps happen, really don't get the logic behind it ...

[daneranon89]

It's known that there are many that invest in all they can because "it has a chance to rise".
And it's known that there are many speculators and speculator wannabes which, when the price rises, they buy, hoping to sell with profit.

A widely seen pattern for new coins (or at least from my knowledge) is high starting price, dump, big fall in the price, then, depending on the coin, some recover and rise, some not.
This means that many are not scared by the fact the price falls a lot at start. If the coin is good, they will earn after months or years, if not, they are bagholders with useless coins.

My guess is that the successful scam-devs are good manipulators. You need to invest carefully to create some hype around your coin, else the scam may fail.
I am almost certain that not all scam coin PND made the devs richer, but some did very good (heh..) scams.

I agree with most what you said. However, those who may rise again from depressed price are usually early fork of some new coins, like for example after zcash was out, there's a clone called zclassic, where there are quite some people mining and support. But I am talking on those coins with normal scrypt, SHA256, X11/X13 etc, really nothing new and nothing attractive, and sometimes the dev does not even bother to promo, but still sometimes I can see pumps happen, really don't get the logic behind it ...

Pump and dump is done not just by the devs themselves. There are groups of traders who pump up the coin to attract newbies and other inexperienced or even greedy people to join the pump. The devs and these pump groups may or may not work together. And I don't need to say how this ends...

[Red-Apple]

no dev ever comes out and says "i am going to scam you" and nobody says premine, ICo,... are for scamming they all say we are good and have roadmap!
then there are newbies who buy that crap.

then there are traders always in the market waiting for an opportunity to make some quick money, they all join in the hype and start buying which makes a wave of uprise movement and sometimes developers, whales, etc pump a little and the rocket goes up (there is a lot more to that but as a summary this is what happens and then the dump begins.)

[leepfrog]

You talk like you know so much then ask how to make money with the method you said. You obviously want to do it yourself don't you lol I don't spend time on coins that have no appeal to me and that is 95% of them and I'm not interested in pump and dump coins, you however answered your own question how they make money. Well thats what I get from my newbie perspective.

[NeuroticFish]

I agree with most what you said. However, those who may rise again from depressed price are usually early fork of some new coins, like for example after zcash was out, there's a clone called zclassic, where there are quite some people mining and support. But I am talking on those coins with normal scrypt, SHA256, X11/X13 etc, really nothing new and nothing attractive, and sometimes the dev does not even bother to promo, but still sometimes I can see pumps happen, really don't get the logic behind it ...

I think that in most such cases the devs don't earn anything.
The pumps and dumps are orchestrated by special groups that pick low volume coins and try to earn from them. In many cases the groups don't know and don't care how bad the coin is. And as I said, when the price rises many go to buy, afraid that they may miss the train. And they become easy targets.
Then there are the exchanges. I am almost certain that many exchanges fake transactions (and some may even look like real pumps and dumps because of the low volumes) in order to show better volumes.

Of course, these are theories...

[muhcoins]

how they profit? simple.
attracting ingenuous investors and newbie traders, who believe in the promises and fall for the idea of easy profit.

people see the price increase and then the FOMO starts, devs keep tracking the buy orders and once it's enough to dump they do it.

[Pursuer]

usually when coins hit the exchange for the first time, there is nobody trading them and the developers who are holding the coins set some orders on the market before anyone else even have any coins available for them. so they can show some fake prices as they please.

and then there are other works going on in the background through social media and for example this forum on their announcement topics where they spread some hype and talk about their coin being the best, new code ,.... and these all lead to the rise.

and those orders that developers places in the first place gets filled in the first set of buys so they earn their first money that way and then through pumps they earn some more before it is dead down to 1 satoshi.

[ArcCsch]

Directions for running pump-and-dump scam:
(1) Copy code from existing coin, tweak parameters, create huge premine, and give it a catchy name.
(2) Create an ANN thread with flashy graphics, exalting the virtues of your coin.
(3) Create a scam signature campaign, promising to pay participants for wearing signatures and spamming social media.
(4) Maintain the signature campaign as long as possible by postponing payment.
(5) Watch resulting price rise, until it starts to level out.
(6) Dump the premine, get BTC for it.
(7) Leave.
Note that the scammer never has to pay a single satoshi.

[Ayers]

whale actually do not buy coin they create artificial wall that never buy anything just sell and buy to themselves, this will make a fake pump where newbie or other small investeros will invest their money, they when the price is high enough the whales dump, i can't see other way how this can work

[harizen]

Question is: how can these people make money? initially, there will be some people mine the coins, and they will dump all once the exchange exist. If dev artificially pump the price, will any people really follow him and buy?? I won't imagine there are people so stupid and let dev with huge premine to dump. So I think dev's pump is useless as those who mined the coin will dump regardless. But why I still see many pump then followed by dump in these shitcoins??

If there is a so called fake price pump and if people will follow it? Yes in most of the cases they will follow it. Why? There are now eyeing for the profit purposes that will create after that bull run. All in all, they are playing with the devs action to make money. Most of the traders already know that shitcoins come and go so while it's on the run take the ride to grab some profits.

With this kind of activity that happening in every altcoins in most of the cases, no way it can surpass the status of bitcoin today so it's just an mere fact that alts are made just for profit taking.

[jacafbiz]

For a start all coins pump and dump including Bitcoin, Bitcoin once hit above $1000 and crashed to $200. Most shit coins are always pre-mined coins and the developer or the whales holding large volume will create excitement in the market coupled with some troll to gain traders attention once people buy into this the price will be jack up and FOMO will set in then the large coin will be dumped on the market and here comes bagholders because nobody will be interested in the token again

[Minecache]

Directions for running pump-and-dump scam:
(1) Copy code from existing coin, tweak parameters, create huge premine, and give it a catchy name.
(2) Create an ANN thread with flashy graphics, exalting the virtues of your coin.
(3) Create a scam signature campaign, promising to pay participants for wearing signatures and spamming social media.
(4) Maintain the signature campaign as long as possible by postponing payment.
(5) Watch resulting price rise, until it starts to level out.
(6) Dump the premine, get BTC for it.
(7) Leave.
Note that the scammer never has to pay a single satoshi.

That's why I'd only invest in well known cryptos like BTC, ETH, MAID, and REP.

[strasboug]

I agree with most what you said. However, those who may rise again from depressed price are usually early fork of some new coins, like for example after zcash was out, there's a clone called zclassic, where there are quite some people mining and support. But I am talking on those coins with normal scrypt, SHA256, X11/X13 etc, really nothing new and nothing attractive, and sometimes the dev does not even bother to promo, but still sometimes I can see pumps happen, really don't get the logic behind it ...

I think that in most such cases the devs don't earn anything.
The pumps and dumps are orchestrated by special groups that pick low volume coins and try to earn from them. In many cases the groups don't know and don't care how bad the coin is. And as I said, when the price rises many go to buy, afraid that they may miss the train. And they become easy targets.
Then there are the exchanges. I am almost certain that many exchanges fake transactions (and some may even look like real pumps and dumps because of the low volumes) in order to show better volumes.

Of course, these are theories...

Yes what you said makes sense. For those really plain shitcoins they don't get much chances, sometimes they create multiple accounts to hype, usually these are newbie accounts. Then pump and try to dump, lol.

[dfox101]

Directions for running pump-and-dump scam:
(1) Copy code from existing coin, tweak parameters, create huge premine, and give it a catchy name.
(2) Create an ANN thread with flashy graphics, exalting the virtues of your coin.
(3) Create a scam signature campaign, promising to pay participants for wearing signatures and spamming social media.
(4) Maintain the signature campaign as long as possible by postponing payment.
(5) Watch resulting price rise, until it starts to level out.
(6) Dump the premine, get BTC for it.
(7) Leave.
Note that the scammer never has to pay a single satoshi.

Interesting topic and good scenario, except I don't think they need to do signature campaign. Because the signature campaign they will eed to pay weekly with either bitcoin or their own coin. If they pay their own coin people will just dump and creating more selling pressure. Possibly just nice graphics + hype, then followed by dump to make quick bucks.

[ArcCsch]

Because the signature campaign they will eed to pay weekly with either bitcoin or their own coin. If they pay their own coin people will just dump and creating more selling pressure.

They can start by spreading hype solo and begin the signature campaign several weeks before the dump, it is trivial to maintain a signature campaign for one week without paying a satoshi, and that can easily be extended by making credible excuses for "postponing" payment ("I am too busy now please keep your signature and wait", "you are kicked out for not writing constructive posts", "NEW RULE: make your own s***coin wallet or get sacked (when the wallet generator does not work)", "I am running the thread but someone else is sending the payment, and they have been inactive for several day", "payment is postponed until I evaluate posts", "I am waiting for more payments to accumulate, to avoid dust transactions", "I lost my paper wallet, I will pay when I find it", "the campaign is experiencing technical issues, please keep your signatures"), they can keep doing this until the dump and disappear afterwards without paying anyone.

[strasboug]

Because the signature campaign they will eed to pay weekly with either bitcoin or their own coin. If they pay their own coin people will just dump and creating more selling pressure.

They can start by spreading hype solo and begin the signature campaign several weeks before the dump, it is trivial to maintain a signature campaign for one week without paying a satoshi, and that can easily be extended by making credible excuses for "postponing" payment ("I am too busy now please keep your signature and wait", "you are kicked out for not writing constructive posts", "NEW RULE: make your own s***coin wallet or get sacked (when the wallet generator does not work)", "I am running the thread but someone else is sending the payment, and they have been inactive for several day", "payment is postponed until I evaluate posts", "I am waiting for more payments to accumulate, to avoid dust transactions", "I lost my paper wallet, I will pay when I find it", "the campaign is experiencing technical issues, please keep your signatures"), they can keep doing this until the dump and disappear afterwards without paying anyone.

lol, there are different techniques to cheat, and this wild world is largely about cheating. So yes, playing this like swimming with sharks, I'd prefer to stick to more stable coins.

[rapazev]

I agree with most what you said. However, those who may rise again from depressed price are usually early fork of some new coins, like for example after zcash was out, there's a clone called zclassic, where there are quite some people mining and support. But I am talking on those coins with normal scrypt, SHA256, X11/X13 etc, really nothing new and nothing attractive, and sometimes the dev does not even bother to promo, but still sometimes I can see pumps happen, really don't get the logic behind it ...

I think that in most such cases the devs don't earn anything.
The pumps and dumps are orchestrated by special groups that pick low volume coins and try to earn from them. In many cases the groups don't know and don't care how bad the coin is. And as I said, when the price rises many go to buy, afraid that they may miss the train. And they become easy targets.
Then there are the exchanges. I am almost certain that many exchanges fake transactions (and some may even look like real pumps and dumps because of the low volumes) in order to show better volumes.

Of course, these are theories...

in a few cases i'm sure that happens, but definitely not most cases.
generally, devs hold the most coins in the market(because in most cases it's premined)..

but i'm sure there a projects where devs didn't premined, tried their best but a few whales bought most coins, forced a pump and then dumped.