Fake volumes/trades on (alt) exchanges

[kaicrypzen]

Hi,

I don't know if this discussion belongs in this section, please advise on a section if you think this one's not okay. Thx.

I am trying to figure out if (some) exchanges display fake volumes/trades. Maybe this is a known practice and I just don't know about it ...

So, I've witnessed some oddities on some exchanges:
- On c-cex, sometimes a sell order appears, gets filled instantly, another then appears and gets filled and so on for a given period of time. Either bots or humans have a super fast reaction time to be able to fill the orders as they appear, or something's fishy.
- On livecoin, I've seen orders displayed in the histroy without them being displayed in the sell/buy orders ...

What do you guys think about that?

Thank you.

[dev gone?]

IMO some exchanges are definitely faking trades and volume, although proving it is difficult. I have watched massive orders in the history that didn't show up in the sell/buy orders too. Despite there being no walls apparent massive buys and sells didn't alter the price.

[memequiserle]

I think volume transaction in exchanger not fake
but founder/owner exchanger , ussualy intervention market capital money use fee trading
if fee trading is much, exchanger can dump market
i think is not problem, because is stagnant price, you can't take profit

[torikan]

Hi,

I don't know if this discussion belongs in this section, please advise on a section if you think this one's not okay. Thx.

I am trying to figure out if (some) exchanges display fake volumes/trades. Maybe this is a known practice and I just don't know about it ...

So, I've witnessed some oddities on some exchanges:
- On c-cex, sometimes a sell order appears, gets filled instantly, another then appears and gets filled and so on for a given period of time. Either bots or humans have a super fast reaction time to be able to fill the orders as they appear, or something's fishy.
- On livecoin, I've seen orders displayed in the histroy without them being displayed in the sell/buy orders ...

What do you guys think about that?

Thank you.

Even the bots on the market are using it for it. Even the site does not cut the fee from  own  unlimited transactions.

[kaicrypzen]

IMO some exchanges are definitely faking trades and volume, although proving it is difficult. I have watched massive orders in the history that didn't show up in the sell/buy orders too.

That's enough proof, don't you think?

I think volume transaction in exchanger not fake

Why do you think so? Are there any elements that make you think volumes are real?

but founder/owner exchanger , ussualy intervention market capital money use fee trading
if fee trading is much, exchanger can dump market

Can you please explain what you mean by fee trading?

i think is not problem, because is stagnant price, you can't take profit

For me, this creates a false impression of demand. I go check an exchange, see the price is high (due to potentially fake buys/sells) and might think that in that exchange (for whatever reason) there's a higher demand whereas there isn't ... It's impossible to sell at prices close to the history prices. You actually don't know what the price is anymore ...

Even the bots on the market are using it for it. Even the site does not cut the fee from  own  unlimited transactions.

You mean the bots are using the exchange for faking volumes?

Even the site does not cut the fee from  own  unlimited transactions.

I don't understand this part, can you please elaborate?

Thanks everyone who replied.

[dev gone?]

IMO some exchanges are definitely faking trades and volume, although proving it is difficult. I have watched massive orders in the history that didn't show up in the sell/buy orders too.

That's enough proof, don't you think?

It depends which exchange you are looking at. Some have stop order functionality, and those exchanges would claim a triggered stop order was responsible for a massive order in the history that didn't show up in the sell/buy orders. Other exchanges without stop order functionality could claim a bot put a massive order on a millisecond before another bot sold into it. Although that's an implausible explanation it's not an impossible one.

[bbc.reporter]

For exchanges that collect a fee for each trade done it would be hard to fake volumes and trades. 0% trading fees like what some of the Chinese exchanges have, give these exchanges the ability to make fake trades and volumes at 0 cost.

In your case try to find out if your exchanges also offer 0% trading fees. If your exchange runs bots and trade at both sides of the market consider this a market making strategy they utilize to start some trades in the market. The bad part of this is they are profiting from their own users.

[kaicrypzen]

It depends which exchange you are looking at. Some have stop order functionality, and those exchanges would claim a triggered stop order was responsible for a massive order in the history that didn't show up in the sell/buy orders. Other exchanges without stop order functionality could claim a bot put a massive order on a millisecond before another bot sold into it. Although that's an implausible explanation it's not an impossible one.

Thx for explaining, indeed there is no undeniable proof.

For exchanges that collect a fee for each trade done it would be hard to fake volumes and trades. 0% trading fees like what some of the Chinese exchanges have, give these exchanges the ability to make fake trades and volumes at 0 cost.

In your case try to find out if your exchanges also offer 0% trading fees. If your exchange runs bots and trade at both sides of the market consider this a market making strategy they utilize to start some trades in the market. The bad part of this is they are profiting from their own users.

Exchanges I noticed this on (c-cex and livecoin) do have fees. Why would it be hard to fake volumes when fees are involved? If an exchange uses bots to trade on both sides, they can factor the fees in their prices, can't they?

The bad part of this is they are profiting from their own users.

Users will leave those exchanges if they notice that, and that no matter what they do their orders are never filled ...

[bbc.reporter]

@kaicripzen. If the users are smart they will surely leave or may also stop trying to day trade. Here is a thought for you in form of a question. We have seen that all altcoins have turned out to be scams, if exchanges were proven to make money out of their users from their market making tactics, are cryptocoin exchanges also scams? Remember these exchanges are not regulated.

[kaicrypzen]

We have seen that all altcoins have turned out to be scams

Do you mean because their markets are manipulated and there's inside trading and such practices (which is also the case for BTC and for other traditional stocks I guess), or are there any other reasons (apart from the alts that are clearly scams and those that don't deliver and/or don't seem to try to deliver)?

if exchanges were proven to make money out of their users from their market making tactics, are cryptocoin exchanges also scams? Remember these exchanges are not regulated.

If all alts are indeed scams, then I would say that exchanges facilitating these scams are also to blame, moreover, traders that trade these scams are to blame too (if both are aware of the potentially scammy nature of alts).

[Nahl]

i was heard too there are some exchange have fake market volume but for me it's very difficult to notice because i don't know for sure which is called fake volume on exchange but i think to avoid those situations we must use only big exchange with trustworthy for altcoins market such as poloniex or bittex

[bbc.reporter]

We have seen that all altcoins have turned out to be scams

Do you mean because their markets are manipulated and there's inside trading and such practices (which is also the case for BTC and for other traditional stocks I guess), or are there any other reasons (apart from the alts that are clearly scams and those that don't deliver and/or don't seem to try to deliver)?

if exchanges were proven to make money out of their users from their market making tactics, are cryptocoin exchanges also scams? Remember these exchanges are not regulated.

If all alts are indeed scams, then I would say that exchanges facilitating these scams are also to blame, moreover, traders that trade these scams are to blame too (if both are aware of the potentially scammy nature of alts).

That is a good point and it becomes aligned with my theory that all altcoiners are really bitcoiners. Most of these altcoiners do not withdraw their coins from the exchanges and are always waiting for a good price to to trade them back to bitcoin. So there are only two kinds of people who encourage everyone to hold the altcoin they themselves are holding. A stupid bagholder or a scamming bagholder.

[buwaytress]

We have seen that all altcoins have turned out to be scams

Do you mean because their markets are manipulated and there's inside trading and such practices (which is also the case for BTC and for other traditional stocks I guess), or are there any other reasons (apart from the alts that are clearly scams and those that don't deliver and/or don't seem to try to deliver)?

if exchanges were proven to make money out of their users from their market making tactics, are cryptocoin exchanges also scams? Remember these exchanges are not regulated.

If all alts are indeed scams, then I would say that exchanges facilitating these scams are also to blame, moreover, traders that trade these scams are to blame too (if both are aware of the potentially scammy nature of alts).

That is a good point and it becomes aligned with my theory that all altcoiners are really bitcoiners. Most of these altcoiners do not withdraw their coins from the exchanges and are always waiting for a good price to to trade them back to bitcoin. So there are only two kinds of people who encourage everyone to hold the altcoin they themselves are holding. A stupid bagholder or a scamming bagholder.

I also believe that all altcoiners are bitcoiners -  though it would be unfair to say all altcoin holders only believe in bitcoin's future. Perhaps the true die hard alts like doge and eth hold only their own currency but when it comes to trading altcoins, I cannot bring myself to believe that the players are anything more than bagholders - stupid or scamming.

[robelneo]

Two things,dev of the coin or a group pumping a particular coin to create volume or wash trading,or the exchanges themselves create fake volumes using their own bot,there are a lot of factors ,even one big whales can create fake volumes you need an eye for details to see this .

[dhampir-D]

Two things,dev of the coin or a group pumping a particular coin to create volume or wash trading,or the exchanges themselves create fake volumes using their own bot,there are a lot of factors ,even one big whales can create fake volumes you need an eye for details to see this .

It's easy if they have access to zero fee. For some exchanges, these whales or pumping groups are not a problem as they generate volume and attract speculators. It is common for exchanges to provide spots to market makers, for example, where the exchange offers zero commission to them.

[kaicrypzen]

That is a good point and it becomes aligned with my theory that all altcoiners are really bitcoiners. Most of these altcoiners do not withdraw their coins from the exchanges and are always waiting for a good price to to trade them back to bitcoin. So there are only two kinds of people who encourage everyone to hold the altcoin they themselves are holding. A stupid bagholder or a scamming bagholder.

I also believe that all altcoiners are bitcoiners -  though it would be unfair to say all altcoin holders only believe in bitcoin's future. Perhaps the true die hard alts like doge and eth hold only their own currency but when it comes to trading altcoins, I cannot bring myself to believe that the players are anything more than bagholders - stupid or scamming.

These markets (alts and Bitcoin) are so volatile (and manipulated), no one really knows how demand will evolve (and if it really sets the price), so even if one believes in the potential of a crypto (including Bitcoin), they can't know when to buy ... buying and holding the down trend needs a lot of discipline and belief and if one thinks they can sell and buy back cheaper, they're adapting to demand or they might be scamming . Interseting thought you both got there .

Two things,dev of the coin or a group pumping a particular coin to create volume or wash trading,or the exchanges themselves create fake volumes using their own bot,there are a lot of factors ,even one big whales can create fake volumes you need an eye for details to see this .

What should I be looking for to spot the non-obvious pumps and fake volumes created by big whales?

It's easy if they have access to zero fee. For some exchanges, these whales or pumping groups are not a problem as they generate volume and attract speculators. It is common for exchanges to provide spots to market makers, for example, where the exchange offers zero commission to them.

Okay, good to know.

I'm starting to think that I should stop buying crypto

[stomachgrowls]

I just remembered regarding on this issue on an exchange site which it manipulates the trade and volume of a certain coin and i forget whats the name of that exchange and as ive read some traders already notice the shady behavior of the site thats why they decide to leave the exchange.I dont know if its real or not because its hard to notice such behavior.

[Raja_MBZ]

I don't think that it'd matter much if the small exchanges even do that. Poloniex & Bittrex are the only ones leading right now, and everything would remain fine as long as the things are transparent in these two websites.