Possible proof BFL is using people's preorders to mine with.

[spiral_mind]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c1jqd/butterfly_labs_may_be_scamming_us_all/


Text:

"Is anyone else tired of waiting for their BFL asic's to ship? Anyone pissed off about the increased price and lowered hash rate? Anyone else wondering when the hell they're even going to ship their product? I know I am. On all accounts.

Today a buddy of mine approached me with some very interesting research he did. So let's look at what we've got.

First is this address. http://blockchain.info/address/1NLg3QJMsMQGM5KEUaEu5ADDmKQSLHwmyh

Now look at that data. Blocks solved and new coins created at 12 o'clock, 2 o'clock 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock today (4/9/13). One address solving 4 blocks in 8 hours. I mean, sure, that's obviously possible with the new hardware, but that's some serious power. Especially for one address to have. Seems a little fishy to me.

Next: Let's check that most recent block. http://blockchain.info/block-index/371485/000000000000019025d6a44dfa2af3a9b8965e277c04a2d4c50d9ae1d4711142 Solved and sent to the same address. So we've got the block. And where it's located? The Kansas/Missouri border.

Ok. Pause. How does this relate to and/or implicated BFL? So far, it doesn't really. But looking at the facts. We've got one party mining alone, solving a ton of blocks at an alarming rate. There's no problem with that. But then I check BFL's website.

Their contact page: http://www.butterflylabs.com/contact/

Awfully close to the exact same spot on the map as the IP solving those blocks, no? And BFL would certainly have the power to mine like that if they didn't sell their machines.

Now also take into account that these devices were supposed to ship months ago. Those of you who follow the forums keep getting told "soon" or "within the next month" or whatever it may be. But here we sit, sans BFL-made ASICs. They've been taking money since June, but have yet to deliver. We've seen pictures of chips on boards, and we've seen the rising price of coins. We haven't been given an update on shipment dates either, and that was supposed to be this week(again).

I hate throwing the conspiracy theory card around, but this is looking an awful lot to me like these guys saw they could make more money by mining than by selling their products which people have paid for. I don't know if that's illegal, but it's certainly immoral. Given that BFL has already been suggested a scam I think this may hold some weight. Thoughts /r/Bitcoin?

If I'm wrong here, interpreted data incorrectly, or anything else please let me know.

TL;DR - Butterfly Labs is holding onto their ASIC's and using them to mine instead of shipping them to everyone who pre-ordered."



What do you guys think?

[creativex]

Have you taken into account the fact that Josh/BFL_Josh/Inaba is the pool op of Eclipse?

https://eclipsemc.com/

Note: I've not checked on any of your evidence.

[legendster]

Absolutely possible and probable but the beauty of the whole this is that bitcoins are untraceable.. so all we can do is speculate.

[PachucoBro]

Let's also consider the reality of and the possible excuse of...

We burn-in and bench test our products.

[Lore]

Possible... Or possible beta test?

Though in all seriousness their website is too rigged to make you think you will get a ASIC instantly.  You have no idea all the numbers of back logged preorders they have until you research the bitcoin community.  If you just googled Bitcoin minng hardware you would see them right at the top and go "buy" one.  The tip offs are  the fact they don't actually tell you ANYTHING about when you will get your order, and the fine print about no refunds, and that they have such pretty looking hardware.  Sure I'd expect hard to one day look like that, but this is a race to be first, not a beauty pageant.

Do you really need an embedded Nexus 7 in the chassis?  How long did that take to debug?

[creativex]

Possible... Or possible beta test?

Though in all seriousness their website is too rigged to make you think you will get a ASIC instantly.  You have no idea all the numbers of back logged preorders they have until you research the bitcoin community.  If you just googled Bitcoin minng hardware you would see them right at the top and go "buy" one.  The tip offs are  the fact they don't actually tell you ANYTHING about when you will get your order, and the fine print about no refunds, and that they have such pretty looking hardware.  Sure I'd expect hard to one day look like that, but this is a race to be first, not a beauty pageant.

Do you really need an embedded Nexus 7 in the chassis?  How long did that take to debug?

It needn't be debugged because the case is empty save for fans.



While this fact is a huge timesaver it also makes it's use as a Bitcoin mining device rather...pedestrian.

[cedivad]

They have a huge FPGA farm, they are mining with their customers trade ins...

[creativex]

They have a huge FPGA farm, they are mining with their customers trade ins...

I wasn't aware any of their customers investors victims had been contacted with instructions to send in their trade-in FPGAs yet.

[DoogieHouser]

Agreed.  I placed an upgrade order in July and a new hardware order in October.  The new hardware order now appears on the BFL web-site as "Processing".  When I contacted BFL, to ask what that meant, I was told my order was ready for assembly, but the chips were not finished testing.

When I challenged them, they presented a 25% discount coupon, only good for my upgrade order.  My threat of a class action lawsuit for lost revenue has gone unanswered.

I doubt that I will ever do business with BFL, ever again.

[Krellan]

I thought of that as well, but have no proof (and even this is just circumstantial, IP geolocation can put you anywhere, it routinely puts me in another state).

My guess is that they're doing a lot of really good extended burn-in testing to make sure your hardware works correctly

Honestly, they have no rational reason to ship ASIC's now, if they have them.  Since they're one of the few people in the world with a batch of ASIC's, they're probably doing all the mining they can now, because it's very profitable.  If you had something that would put you ahead of the curve, giving you more compute power than everybody else, why would you give it away?  The profit now, from keeping them for your own mining, would outweigh the revenue you would get from selling them.  Therefore, no incentive to sell them.  At best, if it were me, I'd sell only a few at a time, enough to keep people happy that they're getting their orders eventually, but keep most of them for myself.

I can see two things that would motivate them to start shipping their ASIC's: 1) If the difficulty got high enough that even ASIC mining wouldn't be profitable enough to outweigh the revenue from shipping the ASIC's, and/or 2) another different supplier of ASIC's starts selling them to everybody so it's no longer special/unique to have an ASIC relative to everybody else's compute power.

Josh

[Phantai]

From what I understand, this is just a rotating address in a large mining pool. Nevertheless, the possibility that this is happening is quite unnerving. It would be very, very easy to hide the gains across a multitude of addresses. The scariest thing about this possibility is the implications on the BTC economy. The currency's strength lies in its decentralized nature, and a centralization of hashing power and new coin production could be very hazardous to the infant economy. More competitors need to enter the mining/mining hardware arena to drive manufacturing costs down and to get more ASICs in the hands of more people.

[AtlasONo]

It is NOT the Eclipse pool. Go sign up and look at their reported blocks. Here is a sample

230485

230508

230530

BFL is NOT supposed to be mining with their customers equipment they have always stated they would use a test net, if they are mining on the bitcoin network they are driving the difficulty up and screwing their customers while making more than $6k per block.

BFL also has not instructed anyone to send in their FPGA's.

However I do seem to remember seeing a picture of them with the caption "FPGA farm".

This should really be investigated further.