[Marketplace] Inquiry about the forum rules

[Lutpin]

As of the latest addition to the marketplace rules by grue, "Reasonably similar items must be listed together".
Now I know this rule is up to the discretion of the moderator in charge, but I'd like to have clarification about a specific case.



The following three threads:
[WTS] 10BTC Casascius Silver Round /w Gold B - MINT - MOST DESIRED COIN!
[WTS] 1BTC Casascius Solid-Silver Round - MINT GRADE!
[WTS] 1BTC Casascius Silver Round /w Gold B - GOLD HEART ERROR COIN - VERY RARE!

All threads are for the sale of items I would call similar for several reasons
1) In every thread, a coin is being sold
2) All of those coins are made of silver
3) All of those coins are loaded with btc
4) All of those coins are graded by ANACS
5) All of those coins have been produced by casascius

Now to my questions:
1) Is this rule still acutal, and if yes, does it affect all childs of the marketplace, including collectibles?
2) Have reports about this simply not been handled, or an I wrong in my interpretation of the rules?
3) Is there any significant backlog on reports in general and at the level of global moderators in specific? (I'm asking for a friend)
4) What would be the most easy form for a report like this and how would the handling moderator prefer to get the information submitted?


(This thread served as a reference for reports of those listing in order to explain the report better and to allow the answering of the questions by a moderator in charge)

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[Lauda]

I've reported the user in question at least once via PM. Good luck with this.

1) Is this rule still acutal, and if yes, does it affect all childs of the marketplace, including collectibles?

It should be.

2) Have reports about this simply not been handled, or an I wrong in my interpretation of the rules?

Your interpretation is not wrong.

4) What would be the most easy form for a report like this and how would the handling moderator prefer to get the information submitted?

If it were up to me, I'd prefer it done via PM. This question should be answered by only two active people that are able to handle it though.

[moonpie45]

That rule specifically says that it is the moderators' discretion if multiple items are reasonably similar or not.

I think the "Collectables" section (along with special rules, including the specific approval to have auctions in this section) was created to appease a certain subset of people with a certain economic class, and to allow these people their own section in which they generally do not have to deal with signature spammers, and can discuss their collectable coins as they wish in that section. None of bitmarket.io's threads appear to be bothering anyone, and there is more then enough room for his threads and the other threads with a recent post in the first two pages of that section.

3) Is there any significant backlog on reports in general and at the level of global moderators in specific? (I'm asking for a friend)

FYI it is very obvious that your friend that you are asking on behalf of is Lauda. The answer to this question is also very obvious, well it should be, or else there would be a lot of threads getting moved to different sections days/weeks after they were created.

I think this thread is a subtle attempt to nudge your friend's way into power, not unlike you nudged your way into power via getting a spot in the Default Trust network. Only you made those subtle attempts in private, but you cannot do that in this case because those who wield power will not respond to those types of personal messages from you.

[Lutpin]

That rule specifically says that it is the moderators' discretion if multiple items are reasonably similar or not.

And my OP clearly says I am aware of that fact, but want a clear statement to this case.

I think the "Collectables" section (along with special rules, including the specific approval to have auctions in this section) was created to appease a certain subset of people with a certain economic class, and to allow these people their own section in which they generally do not have to deal with signature spammers, and can discuss their collectable coins as they wish in that section.

I'm an active collector myself and regularly post in this section. I know what is happening there and I am aware what purpose it has.

None of bitmarket.io's threads appear to be bothering anyone, and there is more then enough room for his threads and the other threads with a recent post in the first two pages of that section.

Bullshit, most of us are annoyed by that.

3) Is there any significant backlog on reports in general and at the level of global moderators in specific? (I'm asking for a friend)

FYI it is very obvious that your friend that you are asking on behalf of is Lauda. The answer to this question is also very obvious, well it should be, or else there would be a lot of threads getting moved to differen

I'm asking for Quickseller, who does not think a backlog of this sort exists. I harshly disagree, I want a public statement to point them towards in order to support my standpoint (or weaken it if I was to be wrong).

I think this thread is a subtle attempt to nudge your friend's way into power, not unlike you nudged your way into power via getting a spot in the Default Trust network. Only you made those subtle attempts in private, but you cannot do that in this case because those who wield power will not respond to those types of personal messages from you.

Thanks, that's hilarious. Do you tell bedtime stories every day?

[moonpie45]

I think the "Collectables" section (along with special rules, including the specific approval to have auctions in this section) was created to appease a certain subset of people with a certain economic class, and to allow these people their own section in which they generally do not have to deal with signature spammers, and can discuss their collectable coins as they wish in that section.

I'm an active collector myself and regularly post in this section. I know what is happening there and I am aware what purpose it has.

I don't think the Collectables section was created for you, and I don't think you understand it's purpose -- you can repeat it's written purpose, but you don't understand.

None of bitmarket.io's threads appear to be bothering anyone, and there is more then enough room for his threads and the other threads with a recent post in the first two pages of that section.

Bullshit, most of us are annoyed by that.

Okay please don't post any kind of empirical evidence or cite anyone other then yourself. Looking through his threads, I see few people annoyed, but more annoyed by the fact that he refuses to lower his price verses the fact that he has multiple open threads.

P.S - Am I the first person to be annoyed by the way you respond to posts like that? I was not making however many individual statements, I was making a general point summed together by several statements.

[OgNasty]

Looking through his threads, I see few people annoyed, but more annoyed by the fact that he refuses to lower his price verses the fact that he has multiple open threads.

I think that's part of the annoyance.  Those threads have been around for long enough to where it's obvious the coins are overpriced and not going to sell.  Repeatedly bumping them without lowering the price could be interpreted as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[minifrij]

None of bitmarket.io's threads appear to be bothering anyone

Absolutely not.

I don't think the Collectables section was created for you, and I don't think you understand it's purpose -- you can repeat it's written purpose, but you don't understand.

No, but several other collectors share the opinion that Lutpin has. The people who dislike these threads are completely aware of what the purpose of the Collectibles section is and use it properly for it's intended purpose. Whether or not you think Lutpin knows about the use of the Collectibles section has no relation to the point being made.

Okay please don't post any kind of empirical evidence or cite anyone other then yourself. Looking through his threads, I see few people annoyed, but more annoyed by the fact that he refuses to lower his price verses the fact that he has multiple open threads.

The majority of the evidence isn't posted publicly, but in a third party chat a lot of collectors are a part of. I'll let anyone that feels like it come forward without naming them, although there are several people that are not big fans of how these threads are being handled. If you want more citations than Lutpin, consider hybridsole (see above) and myself.

P.S - Am I the first person to be annoyed by the way you respond to posts like that? I was not making however many individual statements, I was making a general point summed together by several statements.

I reply in the same way and people have gotten annoyed at me for it in the past. It usually happens to those who have no good points, so simply attack the writing style of the person arguing with them. Don't worry, you're not special.

[Lesbian Cow]

The collectibles section is by far my most active section and I agree with Lutpin on this issue.

This weekend I posted a sale for multiple silver objects and a bit of gold:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1719149.msg17213780#msg17213780

If I had done this bitmarket.io style it would have been 5 separate listings for each slightly different piece.  I also would have priced everything so far out of touch with the market that the items would be available for months or even years to come.  Finally, I would continue to bump all 5 threads daily the entire time with no update to price just to keep them in everyone's face. 

On the other hand, if I ever decide I need a Casascius coin with a gold heart I know where to go...

[Zepher]

I am finding these daily bumped threads by bitmarket annoying as well. This is only starting to get to me lately though, as these threads have been going for months now, with little to zero interest at the current listed prices. If bitmarket was listing his coins at market/competitive prices, these would have sold a long time ago. In fact, I would have likely bought the 10 BTC and the 1 BTC "error heart" if the prices were more reasonable. That said, he is free to charge what he wants, but the constant daily bumps of all 3 threads is getting on my nerves as well.

I know I am not the only one annoyed by this - just look at the post by hybridsole in the 10 BTC Casascius thread. Lutpin also finds it annoying, hence the thread here. And before you ask, no, I was not asked to comment here, I chose to post as I have an opinion on this as well. I am an avid crypto coin collector and trader, and the majority of my posts are in the Collectibles section, and I therefore see these daily, like clockwork, bumps.

It is clear that no one is prepared to pay the prices that bitmarket is asking for his coins. He is free to do as he wishes price-wise, but these 3 threads should be combined into 1, which is what I think Lutpin is asking. It will serve the same purpose, and at the same time people won't get irritated with it. Seeing one thread bumped daily is fine, 3 is excessive.

IMO.

[moonpie45]

Looking through his threads, I see few people annoyed, but more annoyed by the fact that he refuses to lower his price verses the fact that he has multiple open threads.

I think that's part of the annoyance.  Those threads have been around for long enough to where it's obvious the coins are overpriced and not going to sell.  Repeatedly bumping them without lowering the price could be interpreted as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Yes, I agree that his ridiculous prices are annoying, but I don't think I (nor anyone else) has the right to tell him what he can and cannot charge for what he is selling. I personally think that his unwillingness to negotiate makes it less likely that others will want to trade with him, especially when there is the risk that something goes wrong that is neither party's fault.

I am finding these daily bumped threads by bitmarket annoying as well. This is only starting to get to me lately though, as these threads have been going for months now, with little to zero interest at the current listed prices.

I am curious why you only find it annoying after a few months.

I did notice a post by hybridsole who appeared annoyed, but did not see anyone else make a similar comment. I think that hybridsole is annoyed at bitmarket.io's high price more then the multiple threads. If bitmarket.io had one thread instead of three, he would still have the right to bump his now-single thread once every 24 hours.

The collectibles section is by far my most active section and I agree with Lutpin on this issue.

Maybe I am wrong about few being annoyed by bitmarket.io's multiple threads. My primary basis for my statement that few were annoyed was that few had posted anything.

This weekend I posted a sale for multiple silver objects and a bit of gold:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1719149.msg17213780#msg17213780

If I had done this bitmarket.io style it would have been 5 separate listings for each slightly different piece.  I also would have priced everything so far out of touch with the market that the items would be available for months or even years to come.  Finally, I would continue to bump all 5 threads daily the entire time with no update to price just to keep them in everyone's face. 

It looks like in your case, if someone was interested in one of your pieces, then they would probably be interested in the majority of your pieces (budget allowing). I cannot see your asking prices based on your current post, however I think all of what you were selling was in the same general price range, with no "error" qualities.

Looking at bitmarket.io's coins, one is a 10 bitcoin coin with a 9 bitcoin premium, I would think that if someone was in the market for a single one bitcoin coin (his asking price 2.5 bitcoin), the 10 bitcoin coin would be out of their price range. The third coin that bitmarket.io is selling has some kind of error that makes him think it deserves a crazy premium (I also think I saw bitmarket.io sell a similar coin with the same error several months ago, but that is offtopic here), and someone after an "error" coin might not be interested in a "non-error" coin.

Just my perspective....

[Lauda]

Repeatedly bumping them without lowering the price could be interpreted as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Exactly.

I am finding these daily bumped threads by bitmarket annoying as well.
-snip-

Even if the absurd asking prices are ignored, it is quite irritating. It is their right to be irrational in that aspect, i.e. to ask for such prices. However, whenever someone does something like this instead of opening a single sales thread like some do (e.g. Owlcatz, miffman, myself et al.) it causes unnecessary clutter. I even think that auctions should be grouped together into lots if someone plans to run a few at the same time (e.g. occasional flood caused by wheelz). On the other hand, I find this much more acceptable than the equivalent in sales thread since these 'waves' of auctions only last for a short period of time.