[BAKEWELL] Action Proposal - Call for Volunteers

[Deprived]

deprived: wake up, he bought the avalons in the capacity of an officer of his company. he's guilty at least of fraud if he didn't buy them in his company name and ever tried to say they were personal buys. So Avalon would not risk anything rerouting the orders. What, you think Ian is going to incriminate himself in court? Thats a laugh riot. The guy is probably shaking in fear under a mattress in hell's kitchen right about now. So it's still a longshot but we need a statement from avalon. To do that we need an official judgement. So we need some sort of judgement or criminal case file number. A judgement from judge.me MIGHT be sufficient because it is legally enforceable in Canada. If I won a judgement via judge.me I would have ironclad means to seize property via the court legally.

If you get a judgment of any kind that's entirely different.

Not sure why you think he'd agree to judge.me arbitrating though - and they won't issue a judgment without BOTH parties agreeing to them hearing the case.  You producing a forum post (about an entirely different dispute with him) is NOT going to convince judge.me to do anything.

You saying he's guilty has no legal standing.  Not even if you say it's obvious or that everyone knows.  I agree he's totally guilty - but that's also completely irrelevant.

As for Ian incriminating himself in court - not sure what you're trying to say.  I'm the one saying the court/legal system is the way to go.  You're the one who seems to think it can all be ignored because Usagi says he's obviously guilty therefore Avalon will agree as that's enough for them to break a contract.

And if it ever gets to court then just think about what you're saying.  He's either going to:

1.  Plead guilty.
2.  Plead non-guilty.  And this may shock you - but guilty people who plead not-guilt often lie!  Seriously - they do!  I know you'll find it hard to believe - but the minute they plead not-guilty they've started lieing and will tell more lies.

So in exactly what circumstances do you think he'd be giving testimony in court and telling the tuth?  The only defendants who do that are innocent ones.  And people who plead guilty (or don't deny the allegations in civil cases) don't give evidence.

A little bit of logical thinking would do you a world of good.

The reason I suggest the Police rather than the courts is purely one of time.  If you try to bring a civil complaint then it will take a fair while to get to a hearing.  As with Avalon the courts are NOT going to immediately issue a judgement or order just because usagi says he's obviously guilty - they like to give the other side time to respond and there's proscribed periods of time for responses etc.  Not even if you get shareholders in an unregulated security who agree with you to pass a vote saying he's guilty.  Wherease the police can cause action to occur much quicker.  Ideally you want someone who made a straightforward loan to him to make the initial complaint - that's a much clearer case to make and there's no risk of the Police getting side-tracked by questions over the nature of the security.

One thing I do agree with you on is that Ian Bakewell is likely shitting himself right now - though he'll get over that if everyone wants to mess around with shareholder motions rather than doing something productive like going to the Police.  Though if Bitcoin price falls much lower he may be able to repay everything anyway (though I'm by no means convinced his story about some opportunity to renovate trailers is the truth).

[usagi]

Not sure why you think he'd agree to judge.me arbitrating though - and they won't issue a judgment without BOTH parties agreeing to them hearing the case.  You producing a forum post (about an entirely different dispute with him) is NOT going to convince judge.me to do anything.

Read the post. he agreed to judge,me arbitration already, in the case that he screwed over his shareholders. This is certainly "any related controversy", and that wording was chosen for what it means -- ANY RELATED CONTROVERSY AT ALL. It's a shareholder protection agreement, what do you think it's for?

Even if we can't get a judgement for his hardware I will ask what they will do for me about his contract. The goal here is to get ANYTHING on Ian -- at all -- so that we don't have to haul his ass to jail. Even though that is where it will probably end up anyway.

Update: I have reached out to an associate of Jenell Sale (Ian's GF/wife), will update if I hear anything back.

[Deprived]

Not sure why you think he'd agree to judge.me arbitrating though - and they won't issue a judgment without BOTH parties agreeing to them hearing the case.  You producing a forum post (about an entirely different dispute with him) is NOT going to convince judge.me to do anything.

Read the post. he agreed to judge,me arbitration already, in the case that he screwed over his shareholders.

Yes - but him promising you that judge.me could arbitrate isn't sufficient for them to get involved.  Go read their site.  Both parties have to sign an agreement with judge.me (and pay fees) before they'll do anything.  It's just another promise he made that he can break - and judge.me have no standing to to jump in without his consent made to them.  Plus they wouldn't want to anyway - how do they make a profit from (say) finding him in the wrong and awarding costs against him? 

You do realise judge.me is a private for-profit organisation, not part of the legal system?  Their ability to make judgments relies on both parties signing a contract with them in advance - which contract can then be enforced via the main-stream legal system if not adhered to.  And their profit comes from them making sure they get their fees lodged with them in advance.

So unless you can persuade him to signup with judge.me that idea's a total loss.  And why would he do that?  He knows what the outcome would be - so if he were willing to do that then he may just as well save himself their fees and either pay up or acknowledge his debt.

[Deprived]

As a (slightly off-topic) side-note to the above.  It does occur to me that in future such situations it COULD be possible to have agreements for judge.me to arbitrate to be made binding.  That would require signing a contract for their services and lodging funds with them to cover the cost of them arbitrating in any dispute.  Only one half the fees would need to be lodged - with the other half lodged by whoever subsequently made a complaint.  Not sure they'd do that - but would have thought it could be worked out and actually provide some useful protection (in that an enforcable judgment could be made if they became unresponsive).

Until that happens, agreements to use judge.me are worthless in the event one party just stops responding (other than as additional evidence of their bad-faith).

[strello]

Mods moved my post to scam accusations:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175887.0

Good work this weekend guys! Things are moving.

[strello]

Just a quick progress update for anyone following this thread.

Following niko's sound advice from a few days back, the discussion this weekend moved into more private channels.

We've had some progress.

Yifu has been officially contacted by the shareholder group.

A few very useful new pieces of information have been brought to our attention.

Nameface is working on a media website pertaining to bitcoin called BITCITIZEN, and the Bakewell scam will be it's lead story. We are working on wider web exposure of the story.

In preparation for the legal approach, we are gathering evidence from the devastation of the original thread and other sources after Ian deleted all his posts. Especially concerned with the nature of Ian's stock offering, as it's now clear that, as shareholders, we have a good claim to ownership of current and ordered equipment and assets. We need more documentation of this. This is all very time consuming, and we all have lives to get on with. We would be very grateful to anyone having any links to interesting facts to post them here or PM them to me. My GPG key is in my sig. Email on profile page.

Finally, I have been asked by others in the shareholder group to make another appeal to Ian Bakewell. Nothing would please us more, Ian, than if you made contact with us and started a dialogue to try to resolve this. We are determined to make your life extremely uncomfortable in as many creative ways as possible, and we are not going away. You don't need us messing with your online life. Talk to us.

[scrybe]

I'm late to this party, but I add my 966 shares in affirmation of TradeFortress as CEO and the attempt to reclaim hardware, BTC, and wind down BAKEWELL.

[Tachikoma]

Still no comment from Ukyo at Bitfunder, which I personally think reflects very poorly on his attitude to scamming there.

I think you should give Ukto a chance to explain the matter from his angle before throwing scam accusations around. All I know he is currently out of the country on business and can't respond. You can probably verify this by his last login date to the forums.

As far as I know was Ian himself that closed the asset; not Ukto.

[strello]

Thanks for this information, Tachikoma.

I apologise for any insult, and have edited my comment regarding Ukyo and Bitfunder out of my previous post.

However, this is a serious matter, and we have been asking for a comment or information from Ukyo publicly in the Bitfunder thread since 03. April with zero response:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130117.msg1726849#msg1726849

I believe we have given him many chances publicly and by PM to comment.

His profile page, by the way, shows last activity on 12. April.

[usagi]

UPDATE:

I managed to speak with someone at BitFunder and they said they would do what they can to restore the deleted info on BitFunder.

Secondly, a message from Ian Bakewell has been received and will (should be) posted on the 19th or 20th. I have no other details.

I think we should wait until we have the un-deleted asset information and can read the message from Ian. I will post this info on the other thread in the scam accusation forum as well.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

A message from Ian? Interesting, but why not post it now? Another delay tactic it seems.

[usagi]

A message from Ian? Interesting, but why not post it now? Another delay tactic it seems.

I wasn't sure it was ok to post. Ukyo is away now.

He said it was OK to post this (emphasis mine):

[10:55] <@Ukto> i was sent a txt msg about bakewell
[10:55] <@Ukto> i dont have access to forums atm
[10:56] <@Ukto> since i am out and about and dont have my pass
[10:56] <@Ukto> i only very quickly looked at the threds
[10:56] <@Ukto> not sure what people are wanting
[10:56] <@Ukto> but Ian did freeze the asset
[10:56] <@Ukto> or request it
[10:56] <@Ukto> cant rememebr
[10:56] <@Ukto> and sent a skype saying that he will handle shareholders privately
[10:56] <@Ukto> i would post the skype, but skype apparently only logs to local client
[10:57] <@Ukto> so i will have to post it when i get back
[10:57] <@Ukto> And yes, i can repost the details page when i get back
[10:57] <@Ukto> useres shares should still be listed normally on bf
[10:57] <@Ukto> even if ian were to destroy them, i have backups
[10:58] <@Ukto> as for teh stuff with avalon, thats beyond me.
[10:58] <@Ukto> I have no say, or anything in the matter
[10:58] <@Ukto> all i can do is provide the list of shareholders (which should stay publicly available)
[10:59] <@Ukto> just saw where strello said that ppl have been asking for mefor for bakewell since apr 2nd, i am not sure what is being asked for, and apparently missed smoething
[10:59] <@Ukto> This week is very very busy, with somet big news.
[10:59] <@Ukto> i hope people will understand when announcements are made.
[11:00] <@Ukto> umm, i think that about sums up bakewell best i can atm
[11:00] <@Ukto> feel free to quote this into the thread if you want
[11:00] <@Ukto> I will do what i can, that is reasonably within my powers.
[11:01] <@Ukto> Restoring deleted descriptions, etc
[11:05] <usagi> thanks
[11:05] <usagi> Some of the posters online are upset but I told them it really had nothing to do with you
[11:06] <usagi> I mean there's not much you can do, but it's great that ian said he would handle his shareholders.
[11:06] <usagi> Maybe it won't be a total loss :/
[11:14] <@Ukto> yes, once I get back in town I will post the quote from skype immediately.
[11:15] <@Ukto> will be about 2 days

[strello]

Thanks very much for this post usagi.

It's great to hear something from Ukyo, I have lot of respect for him, and I'm sure he will so the right thing here, helping us to find out what has happened with Ian.

Now, this message from Ian...

[strello]

I've made and uploaded a very basic, quick Bakewell Scam website @

ianbakewell-scammer.com

Please visit it regularly just to get the search engines interested.

More content will be added as I get the time, which is really limited for me right now.

All comments, suggestions and especially pointers towards content, especially proof of Ian's various misdoings are extremely welcome.

[strello]

Well, that's embarassing.

Bluehost are having "technical issues" right now, and can't give me any ETA for my site working!! FFS

Cancelling the account right now, and looking for new hosting that works!

[strello]

Bluehost account cancelled and gone- their cancellation service was great!

Website now online at scammer-ianbakewell.com

Any new content very welcome

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

DNS resolution fails. Just switched name servers?

[Korbman]

DNS resolution fails. Just switched name servers?

Everything seems fine for me, but I haven't checked in a number of hours. How's it looking for you right now?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Works now.

I'd suggest changing the design for the <h1> text.. it makes this look a bit like it's not serious..

[burnside]

Bluehost account cancelled and gone- their cancellation service was great!

Website now online at scammer-ianbakewell.com

Any new content very welcome

Looks good.  Be careful to make sure everything you say is 100% factual and you're following all of your local laws regarding what you are allowed to publish in regards to debt collection.  I'd hate for this to get turned against you somehow.  Seems far-fetched, but I've seen it happen a number of times.

Cheers.