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Author Topic: P2P Exchange for bitcoin  (Read 42773 times)
mobile4ever
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April 30, 2013, 12:04:50 AM
 #281

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The Wordpress plugin setup will work similar to an RSS feed, - See more at: https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/54#sthash.QHdOa9HD.dpuf

Well... that's 5 minutes of my life I won't get back. Seriously? wow. I would start by reading books about how TCP/IP works, and then write some actual software.

Its not about TCP/IP. Dont worry, it will get done right.
btcmind
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April 30, 2013, 12:57:09 PM
 #282

Sure, TCPIP, HTTP, RSS - whatever.
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April 30, 2013, 01:56:10 PM
 #283

That was meant as a joke  Grin
mobile4ever
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April 30, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
 #284

That was meant as a joke  Grin



I thought so when I wrote the "+1". Smiley

Today is a good day.
BTCLuke
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May 02, 2013, 04:11:50 AM
Last edit: May 03, 2013, 08:55:48 AM by BTCLuke
 #285

You are not being precise at all.
Allow me to step in and answer some of this for poor Gollum. I know he and I don't have the exact same definition in mind, but it's pretty close; We both want a fully distributed, un-take-down-able client software exchange.


Is this a piece of code?
Yes.

What machine runs what code?
Every client, exactly like bittorrent

i.e. If you want to trade, you gotta host trades.


How does the exchange actually transfer $ on one account to BTC in the same account?
Each client has a wallet inside it for each currency it can trade in. If your client has $10 USD in it, and you want to trade that for BTC, for instance, then you can't convert it locally, you have to trade others for it.

You do this by creating your order in right there in your client, which broadcasts it around the system (everyone within an acceptable pingtime range) and your order gets stored on the book of orders of all of those other clients...

As a match appears, the client most directly inbetween your client and the match's client does the trade, and collects the trading fee... So it really takes three running clients to make a trade at all.
 

Is there a limit order book?
All books we can make work exist on every single client, for the benefit of every client but that one.


Where is the datastructure stored?
The order books on each client are the data structure, I don't think there would be need for a blockchain.


How does the matching take place?
A. Your order gets put into a short string and broadcast around, like this: "User1234BUY10BTC@120USD"

B. That string is instantly displayed on every order book within a short-enough pingtime, likely hundreds of thousands once the network grows large.

C. Bob, then creates an order to sell 10 BTC at a price @ or above $120 USD, and that gets broadcast around as well.

D. Trish's client, which happens to be running directly inbetween you and Bob, notes that your two trades are compatible and executes the trade, acts as a micro-escrow and takes her pre-set fee. (Then broadcasts a 'quit order' on both yours and bob's orders to all other books in her range.)  


How does a user open an account?
Just like downloading the bitcoin wallet client, but funding the wallet with USD will be the hard part, obviously. Everything here should be doable right now except for the nationalized currencies in that wallet. -We're still thinking hard about that part.


where does he open up an account? etc
None needed excepting of course for the brokers to fund these wallets. Think: OKPay, but hopefully better. Wink


it simply does not make sense to distribute a matching engine, because for a market price to form one needs on place where computation takes place.
They'd be regional prices. Sure, you're never going to know what the price of BTC is in Japan when you're in NYC, but your trade is safe, secure, non-DDos-able, and no government can stop it either.


Say you have 100 buy orders and 100 sell orders at various prices going into the system at various times. If every transaction is verified by a network, it would take 1h for one order.
Clearly that wouldn't be a worry with thousands of clients in range, fully distributed.


Something else I feel I should mention here: Remember how Trish didn't lift a finger yet got paid a fee?

...That's going to be an awesome incentive for everyone and their uncle to keep these clients open and online 24/7.

Hope that helped!
 

Luke Parker
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mobile4ever
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May 02, 2013, 01:15:01 PM
 #286

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A. Your order gets put into a short string and broadcast around, like this: "User1234BUY10BTC@120USD"

Is this free and open source? The one in my signature is.
radiumsoup
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May 02, 2013, 01:24:27 PM
 #287

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A. Your order gets put into a short string and broadcast around, like this: "User1234BUY10BTC@120USD"

Is this free and open source? The one in my signature is.


Free as in the BTC99 that you want to get paid? That's an interesting definition of free.

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May 02, 2013, 01:41:38 PM
 #288

Trish's client, which happens to be running directly inbetween you and Bob, notes that your two trades are compatible and executes the trade

Why is there someone in the middle? What happens if you and Bob connect directly? Why can't the quit order be sent when both parties sign something saying they are satisfied with the trade?
mobile4ever
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May 02, 2013, 06:05:36 PM
 #289

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A. Your order gets put into a short string and broadcast around, like this: "User1234BUY10BTC@120USD"

Is this free and open source? The one in my signature is.


Free as in the BTC99 that you want to get paid? That's an interesting definition of free.

Its not made yet. That is the price to make it, its free to distribute. Plus, that was back when a bitcoin was just 60+ dollars. Sheesh... Roll Eyes
radiumsoup
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May 02, 2013, 06:28:43 PM
 #290

Its not made yet. That is the price to make it, its free to distribute. Plus, that was back when a bitcoin was just 60+ dollars. Sheesh... Roll Eyes

So, Vaporware, then. Got it.

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mobile4ever
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May 02, 2013, 07:21:51 PM
 #291

Its not made yet. That is the price to make it, its free to distribute. Plus, that was back when a bitcoin was just 60+ dollars. Sheesh... Roll Eyes

So, Vaporware, then. Got it.

Nah. Futureware...Smiley
BTCLuke
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May 03, 2013, 08:51:26 AM
 #292

Why is there someone in the middle? What happens if you and Bob connect directly? Why can't the quit order be sent when both parties sign something saying they are satisfied with the trade?
Lots of great reasons.

First of all it makes it so you can't cheat bob, and bob can't cheat you. 3rd party Escrow safety.

Secondly, it adds distance. If the acceptable pingtime is 100ms, and you're 99 away from trish and trish is 99 away from bob, then you can bob can trade, despite being too far away to see each other.

Third, and my favorite, this setup gives everyone in the world an incentive to keep this client running; Free money.


Good news: Jeff Berwick just said this on his blog today:
Quote
I am now focusing more of my efforts on less physical ventures that will be much harder to be controlled by governments and central banks.  Things such as a P2P bitcoin exchange, similar to Mt. Gox, but without any central servers.

That's some major cash, folks!

If we can get the right P2P programmer with us on this, Jeff could fund/PR it into existence easily.

Luke Parker
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mobile4ever
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May 03, 2013, 01:39:02 PM
 #293

Why is there someone in the middle? What happens if you and Bob connect directly? Why can't the quit order be sent when both parties sign something saying they are satisfied with the trade?
Lots of great reasons.

First of all it makes it so you can't cheat bob, and bob can't cheat you. 3rd party Escrow safety.




Any system that puts a seller into contact with a buyer directly without a third person is great. If it is decentralized, it makes it even better. As long as a few people are not in charge of this proposed system, that is, it is open source, it is nearly perfect. The world needs it.
Sentinelrv
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May 04, 2013, 04:22:27 AM
 #294

Good news: Jeff Berwick just said this on his blog today:
Quote
I am now focusing more of my efforts on less physical ventures that will be much harder to be controlled by governments and central banks.  Things such as a P2P bitcoin exchange, similar to Mt. Gox, but without any central servers.

That's some major cash, folks!

If we can get the right P2P programmer with us on this, Jeff could fund/PR it into existence easily.

Has anyone involved with this project tried contacting him to make him aware of it? He also said this in his blog...

"If you or anyone you know is one of the top percentile programmers and theorists in P2P protocols please contact us here at TDV."

Not sure if anyone here is a P2P programmer, but it sounds like he's interested in hearing from people that want to build something like this.
gollum (OP)
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May 04, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
 #295

Good news: Jeff Berwick just said this on his blog today:
Quote
I am now focusing more of my efforts on less physical ventures that will be much harder to be controlled by governments and central banks.  Things such as a P2P bitcoin exchange, similar to Mt. Gox, but without any central servers.

That's some major cash, folks!

If we can get the right P2P programmer with us on this, Jeff could fund/PR it into existence easily.

Has anyone involved with this project tried contacting him to make him aware of it? He also said this in his blog...

"If you or anyone you know is one of the top percentile programmers and theorists in P2P protocols please contact us here at TDV."

Not sure if anyone here is a P2P programmer, but it sounds like he's interested in hearing from people that want to build something like this.

We should agree on a final proposal before recruiting programmers.
Right now we are at phase 1-2, we got lot of ideas to organize into one or a few proposals that are practical in the real world.

1) Brainstorming about p2p bitcoin exchange, all ideas are welcome, even crazy ideas.
2) Organizing the ideas into 1-3 solutions  (general architecture and functional requirements)
3) Choosing one solution by voting & discussing
4) Recruiting professional and motivated programmers into the development team. Reward: honor and donations. If you know these programmers please talk to them: https://github.com/bittorrent?tab=members  https://github.com/bitcoin?tab=members
5) Architecture: Dev team makes a detailed architecture based on the final solution.
6) Developing the system
7) Invite existing exchanges MtGox, BitInstant, TradeHill et al. to use this p2p bitcoin exchange
mobile4ever
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May 04, 2013, 09:16:43 PM
 #296

7) Invite existing exchanges MtGox, BitInstant, TradeHill et al. to use this p2p bitcoin exchange

That is a bold move. Smiley Do you think they will want to practically destroy their own money-makers?
gollum (OP)
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May 04, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
 #297

7) Invite existing exchanges MtGox, BitInstant, TradeHill et al. to use this p2p bitcoin exchange

That is a bold move. Smiley Do you think they will want to practically destroy their own money-makers?

That is the last stage. They will not take us seriously until stage 6 is finished, when we have a working system that is stable, scalable and cannot be DDOSed or hacked they will become interested.
Some of them may join us, some may chose their own path. Our system will not destroy their business, they will benefit from this stable and secure system that they didn't have to pay anything for.
What they charge from their clients, and how they trade the markets is up to them.
mobile4ever
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May 05, 2013, 02:09:57 PM
 #298

7) Invite existing exchanges MtGox, BitInstant, TradeHill et al. to use this p2p bitcoin exchange

That is a bold move. Smiley Do you think they will want to practically destroy their own money-makers?

That is the last stage. They will not take us seriously until stage 6 is finished, when we have a working system that is stable, scalable and cannot be DDOSed or hacked they will become interested.
Some of them may join us, some may chose their own path. Our system will not destroy their business, they will benefit from this stable and secure system that they didn't have to pay anything for.
What they charge from their clients, and how they trade the markets is up to them.


Sounds good to me. Charge on OP! Success for us all...
BTCLuke
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May 06, 2013, 07:40:18 AM
 #299

Any system that puts a seller into contact with a buyer directly without a third person is great.
The system I described does use a 3rd person... But that 3rd person is chosen arbitrarily, and is not a permanent middleman in any way.

It's basically anarchy in a software. Two people needing dispute resolution will always look for a 3rd person to fairly resolve their dispute... In nations a person is always assigned to be the dispute resolver, but in anarchy they pick a non-biased, arbitrary 3rd party. This system just takes care of all of that automatically and profitably.


That is a bold move. Smiley Do you think they will want to practically destroy their own money-makers?
Of course they wouldn't... They'll refuse to look at it until it gets as big as they are...

But then they may find some use for it to free up liquidity too. In the meantime, there's nothing they can do to hurt it.

Luke Parker
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May 06, 2013, 10:28:31 PM
 #300

Any system that puts a seller into contact with a buyer directly without a third person is great.
The system I described does use a 3rd person... But that 3rd person is chosen arbitrarily, and is not a permanent middleman in any way.

It's basically anarchy in a software. Two people needing dispute resolution will always look for a 3rd person to fairly resolve their dispute... In nations a person is always assigned to be the dispute resolver, but in anarchy they pick a non-biased, arbitrary 3rd party. This system just takes care of all of that automatically and profitably.


Quote
Would a rating system replace that "third person"? It sounds fine to me to have an arbiter.


That is a bold move. Smiley Do you think they will want to practically destroy their own money-makers?
Of course they wouldn't... They'll refuse to look at it until it gets as big as they are...

But then they may find some use for it to free up liquidity too. In the meantime, there's nothing they can do to hurt it.


I was thinking the same thing. Its all about their bottom line.
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