P2P Exchange for bitcoin

[ahdinosaur]

pitching again my decentralized marketplace ('unbazaar') that can easily be adapted to trade cryptocurrencies. current design has all the features that you guys have been talking about, without being too difficult to make.
current design docs: http://ahdinosaur.github.io/unbazaar/docs (requires up-to-date browser), don't mind the introduction as that highlights another use case of a decentralized market, but please check out the technical design details.
also me and another person will be working full-time on unbazaar starting in around a month. of course we can always use more help.

[mobile4ever]

pitching again my decentralized marketplace ('unbazaar') that can easily be adapted to trade cryptocurrencies. current design has all the features that you guys have been talking about, without being too difficult to make.
current design docs: https://github.com/ahdinosaur/unbazaar/blob/master/design.txt, don't mind the introduction as that highlights another use case of a decentralized market, but please check out the technical design details.
also me and another person will be working full-time on unbazaar starting in around a month. of course we can always use more help.

What computer language is it written in?

[ahdinosaur]

pitching again my decentralized marketplace ('unbazaar') that can easily be adapted to trade cryptocurrencies. current design has all the features that you guys have been talking about, without being too difficult to make.
current design docs: https://github.com/ahdinosaur/unbazaar/blob/master/design.txt, don't mind the introduction as that highlights another use case of a decentralized market, but please check out the technical design details.
also me and another person will be working full-time on unbazaar starting in around a month. of course we can always use more help.

What computer language is it written in?

javascript.

in the spirit of the unhosted movement, all code will run locally in the user's web browser and users will host their own buy/sell listings with remoteStorage.

[BlueNote]

pitching again my decentralized marketplace ('unbazaar') that can easily be adapted to trade cryptocurrencies. current design has all the features that you guys have been talking about, without being too difficult to make.
current design docs: https://github.com/ahdinosaur/unbazaar/blob/master/design.txt, don't mind the introduction as that highlights another use case of a decentralized market, but please check out the technical design details.
also me and another person will be working full-time on unbazaar starting in around a month. of course we can always use more help.

Your link doesn't work for me. I get a 404 error.

It would be nice to read a description of what you're planning.

[ahdinosaur]

pitching again my decentralized marketplace ('unbazaar') that can easily be adapted to trade cryptocurrencies. current design has all the features that you guys have been talking about, without being too difficult to make.
current design docs: https://github.com/ahdinosaur/unbazaar/blob/master/design.txt, don't mind the introduction as that highlights another use case of a decentralized market, but please check out the technical design details.
also me and another person will be working full-time on unbazaar starting in around a month. of course we can always use more help.

Your link doesn't work for me. I get a 404 error.

It would be nice to read a description of what you're planning.

sorry about that, changed the design from a text file to a slideshow last night and forgot to update my post. fixed the link.
http://ahdinosaur.github.io/unbazaar/docs (requires up-to-date browser)

would really appreciate any feedback!  

[BlueNote]

sorry about that, changed the design from a text file to a slideshow last night and forgot to update my post. fixed the link.
http://ahdinosaur.github.io/unbazaar/docs (requires up-to-date browser)

would really appreciate any feedback!  

I didn't really understand the focus on that particular group of products/services. The rest sounds interesting, although hard to picture. It would help to write out an explanation for the layman of how it would work and what it would look like.

[greBit]

I also don't quite get the focus on 3d printers / cnc machines, is this just an example of one use of 'unbazaar' or is it the core business?

Though I do like a lot of the ideas behind it, but I would love a uber generalisation..

A general open platform to support next-generation 'discovery services' would be awesome. Where the user always remains in control of the data he publishes and is freely able to communicate with other users.

Upon this infrastructure, open variants of services such as ebay, craigslist, freelancer and of course crypto-currency-exchanges could be built

[greBit]

The idea of one person or a small group of people having control goes against the idea of decentralization. This must be a very tiring obstacle to have to deal with. All that needed to happen was to design a software along the basic lines of bitcoin. Its free, its open source:


https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/54      

What is the purpose of your mention of 'Global Domains International'?

A quick google search reveals this to look a lot like a creepy pyramid scheme affiliate program.


EDIT:

Evidence for GDI acting as a tax on idiots : just take one look at their website ... http://globaldomainsint.ws/

wow.

[ahdinosaur]

sorry about that, changed the design from a text file to a slideshow last night and forgot to update my post. fixed the link.
http://ahdinosaur.github.io/unbazaar/docs (requires up-to-date browser)

would really appreciate any feedback!  

I didn't really understand the focus on that particular group of products/services. The rest sounds interesting, although hard to picture. It would help to write out an explanation for the layman of how it would work and what it would look like.

I also don't quite get the focus on 3d printers / cnc machines, is this just an example of one use of 'unbazaar' or is it the core business?

Though I do like a lot of the ideas behind it, but I would love a uber generalisation..

A general open platform to support next-generation 'discovery services' would be awesome. Where the user always remains in control of the data he publishes and is freely able to communicate with other users.

Upon this infrastructure, open variants of services such as ebay, craigslist, freelancer and of course crypto-currency-exchanges could be built

i'm fascinated with the idea of personal manufacturing equipment, so that's where i'm starting as a business, but i want unbazaar as a piece of software to be 'a uber generalisation'.

i really like your idea of 'discovery services'. my next task is to focus on publishing PaySwarm assets and listings using remoteStorage, but after that we will need to have an index of sorts that allows people to 'discover' the remoteStorage account that has the PaySwarm listings they are looking for. i like to imagine a person at the edge of a street market asking what you need and giving you directions on where to find the stand that has what you need. i was thinking we can use a distributed hash table like https://github.com/jinroh/kadoh, does anyone know more about a distributed index like this? search terms would be location and listing content; query should return list of listings. requirements are that it must run entirely in the browser (javascript) and preferably on servers too (nodejs).

[greBit]

i'm fascinated with the idea of personal manufacturing equipment, so that's where i'm starting as a business, but i want unbazaar as a piece of software to be 'a uber generalisation'.

i really like your idea of 'discovery services'. my next task is to focus on publishing PaySwarm assets and listings using remoteStorage, but after that we will need to have an index of sorts that allows people to 'discover' the remoteStorage account that has the PaySwarm listings they are looking for. i like to imagine a person at the edge of a street market asking what you need and giving you directions on where to find the stand that has what you need. i was thinking we can use a distributed hash table like https://github.com/jinroh/kadoh, does anyone know more about a distributed index like this? search terms would be location and listing content; query should return list of listings. requirements are that it must run entirely in the browser (javascript) and preferably on servers too (nodejs).

Yes.

Im a big fan of the unhosted movement. I think we are heading in a direction where the cloud is being 'dumbed down' and more and more computation occurs on the client side. A nice democratisation of power!

To support open discovery services, the server side component could be relatively simple. As you say it really only needs to provide data storage and indexing. This part could be highly distributed for performance/reliability gains. This could operate as a very light layer above something like RIAK.

The cloud component could even be achieved peer-peer, where anyone can become a node and possibly even receive Bitcoin payments for their efforts.

Your manufacturing equipment business case could be realised as an HTML5 app that simply uses the API of the aforementioned cloud service.

The cryptocurrency exchange could be another.

[ahdinosaur]

Yes.

Im a big fan of the unhosted movement. I think we are heading in a direction where the cloud is being 'dumbed down' and more and more computation occurs on the client side. A nice democratisation of power!

To support open discovery services, the server side component could be relatively simple. As you say it really only needs to provide data storage and indexing. This part could be highly distributed for performance/reliability gains. This could operate as a very light layer above something like RIAK.

The cloud component could even be achieved peer-peer, where anyone can become a node and possibly even receive Bitcoin payments for their efforts.

Your manufacturing equipment business case could be realised as an HTML5 app that simply uses the API of the aforementioned cloud service.

The cryptocurrency exchange could be another.

agree that Riak is the best database choice for the index. how will this be possible to make peer-to-peer with untrusted peers? we may want to consider something like TahoeLAFS as that would help with not having to trust the index peers.

either way, i like the idea of receiving bitcoin for helping host the index, which should be done by modeling the process through PaySwarm assets and listings in order to be consistent. buying and selling server resources is another use case of unbazaar i am interested in.

[justusranvier]

Protip: There is no software solution to this problem.

All the code needed to make a distributed exchange already exists - what's missing is the human capital: people willing to step away from the keyboard, go outside, and do stuff out in the real world.

If you want to solve this problem the first thing to focus is getting as many people as possible to start actively trading on localbitcoins.com. This is harder than it sounds, however, because you do actually have to go out and get your hands dirty in the real world. It involves communication, negotiation, arranging meeting places, and some degree of financial savvy.

Get 1000 new people involved in operating their own local exchanges and they'll be too busy actually solving the problem to have time to worry about whether they should use Riak to TahoeLAFS for yet another order book system that isn't even needed.

[ahdinosaur]

Protip: There is no software solution to this problem.

All the code needed to make a distributed exchange already exists - what's missing is the human capital: people willing to step away from the keyboard, go outside, and do stuff out in the real world.

If you want to solve this problem the first thing to focus is getting as many people as possible to start actively trading on localbitcoins.com. This is harder than it sounds, however, because you do actually have to go out and get your hands dirty in the real world. It involves communication, negotiation, arranging meeting places, and some degree of financial savvy.

Get 1000 new people involved in operating their own local exchanges and they'll be too busy actually solving the problem to have time to worry about whether they should use Riak to TahoeLAFS for yet another order book system that isn't even needed.

i've been an active trader on localbitcoins.com in my local community, been through all too much real-world communication, negotiation, arranging meeting places, etc, just check my profile. i'm taking a break while i assess the legal situation before i get overwhelmed with activity.

i completely agree that solving the immediate need for distributed crypto-currency exchanges is best done by actively using what is already available (localbitcoins). yet i still think improvements to distributed marketplaces will be beneficial to the community in the long run, especially for a large-scale, efficient, open source economy, and in the meantime it shouldn't detract from any existing solutions like localbitcoins. i'm not worried about how to design yet another order book system that isn't needed, right now i'm just thinking aloud while i finish my last week of school, soon i hope to be coding and working on my roadmap using whatever works, because i have an idea that i want to see implemented if only for my own happiness.  

[BTCLuke]

Protip: There is no software solution to this problem. All the code needed to make a distributed exchange already exists

False.

You cannot trade other currencies, do arbitrage, nor especially options and futures in bitcoin using localbitcoins-like services.

These financial instruments all work towards reducing volatility in a currency, and therefore are exactly what bitcoin is lacking right now.

Localbitcoins is great, but it and the OTC markets are just the absolute bare minimum of what we need to for bitcoin to survive on... If you want it to thrive and be less volatile, you need to be able to arbitrage it and forex it with many different currencies.

Serious daytraders in financial centers around the world who are used to their 3-monitor wrap-around trading consoles with graphs and charts out the wazoo need to be able to trade bitcoin in their software platforms. MtGox isn't even able to deliver that yet, so clearly Localbitcoins is going in the opposite direction from what we need.

what's missing is the human capital: people willing to step away from the keyboard, go outside, and do stuff out in the real world.

I'm sorry, but this may be the most thoughtless statement I've read on the internet to date... How can you suggest for a nanosecond that Bitcoin doesn't have enough human capital? Name one other organization, on this whole spacefaring rock, that has as many volunteers as bitcoin does!

If that's not good enough for you, I submit that you simply aren't going to get any solutions through adding more manpower.

If you give the world what it IS ABSOLUTELY BEGGING US FOR; a better exchange than mtgox that can't be taken down by governments, then all of today's problems are solved. No additional manpower needed.

[justusranvier]

i've been an active trader on localbitcoins.com in my local community, been through all too much real-world communication, negotiation, arranging meeting places, etc

I agree that it requires a large investment in time. I've been through the same thing. That's what we need more of though. If everybody would create an account and start helping people in their area get into Bitcoin the additional boots on the ground would have a  larger impact on the Bitcoin/fiat liquidity than yet another exchange that the average person still can't get easy access to.

Serious daytraders in financial centers around the world who are used to their 3-monitor wrap-around trading consoles with graphs and charts out the wazoo need to be able to trade bitcoin in their software platforms.

I don't care about them. Daytrading does not drive real economic activity; at best it can act as a lubricant to make the job of the people who are actually producing economic value a little easier.

[BTCLuke]

Serious daytraders in financial centers around the world who are used to their 3-monitor wrap-around trading consoles with graphs and charts out the wazoo need to be able to trade bitcoin in their software platforms.

I don't care about them. Daytrading does not drive real economic activity; at best it can act as a lubricant to make the job of the people who are actually producing economic value a little easier.

Do you care about the fluctuation in price of a bitcoin?

Would you care if there were so much fluctuation that you can't convince a single merchant to touch bitcoins because he can't fathom what it is?

Arbitrage and forex FLATTEN OUT THE GRAPHS. You can't convince merchants to use bitcoin if it's going up and down multiple times in a minute.

[daybyter]

Protip: There is no software solution to this problem.

All the code needed to make a distributed exchange already exists - what's missing is the human capital: people willing to step away from the keyboard, go outside, and do stuff out in the real world.

If you want to solve this problem the first thing to focus is getting as many people as possible to start actively trading on localbitcoins.com. This is harder than it sounds, however, because you do actually have to go out and get your hands dirty in the real world. It involves communication, negotiation, arranging meeting places, and some degree of financial savvy.

Get 1000 new people involved in operating their own local exchanges and they'll be too busy actually solving the problem to have time to worry about whether they should use Riak to TahoeLAFS for yet another order book system that isn't even needed.

I like your statement. I thought it might be better to use a smartphone app with the GPS functionality to find people near your to create a real p2p service. Without a central page of registered users, like localbitcoins does it. Problem is, that I don't see any business model in such a system, since there you cannot monitor any deals made by the users. So you cannot request a fee from the users. So I guess, no company would develop such a system.

[mobile4ever]

Do you care about the fluctuation in price of a bitcoin?

The bitcoin price seems to have stabilized... at least for now. Its been around $100 or just above  since the fourth of this month.

[mobile4ever]

One exchange containing many virtual exchanges running at the same time, side by side.

each virtual exchange can consist of one or many brokers.

I wanted to re-quote this, because it seemed like such a good idea. Its like a digital smorgasbord, with whatever options a person could want right at their fingertips.

[BTCLuke]

Do you care about the fluctuation in price of a bitcoin?

The bitcoin price seems to have stabilized... at least for now. Its been around $100 or just above  since the fourth of this month.

That's simply not good enough. Consumers expected $1 to buy a loaf of bread for decades... Of course they can't expect that anymore, but hopefully you get a sense of the timescale we're looking for here when we talk about lowering volatility.

In fact since the price of a bitcoin is going up to $thousands of USD per coin someday, we're clearly still in price discovery mode now and a "Low volatility" environment would be one that grows at a very steady rate, such as 1% a month like clockwork... Very flat, just slightly upwards.

That's what we all should want and if we had it bitcoin would be the most desirable currency/value store on the planet for every last person on earth... There would be so much love for that coin that even the sheeple would lead an armed revolt at anyone that tells them they can't have it.