How can XMR be more private than BTC if XMR will have an huge blockchain?

[pereira4]

I was discussing this in another thread. It's pretty much assumed that Monero's blockchain will be huge if more people start using it and they will not be able to keep it from growing since they have choosen to go the dynamic blocksize route, and it's a tradeoff for the extra privacy technology for the blockchain to be biggger. The question to be asked here is: What's the point, if the blocksize is going to become so big that the nodes will be way too heavy for regular users and more and more node centralization will ensue until only specialized people will be able to run nodes?

I want to get back into Monero, I invested originally back in the day but eventually sold. It seems they are finally making it more user friendly with the GUI. But I still have problems with the scalability problem. Some people complain about Bitcoin's blockchain being too heavy but we already got it figured out with segwit, lightning network etc to scale for the next years. Now my question is, how is Monero going to deal with its blockchain which as far as I remember is a couple times heavier than Bitcoin or grows at a faster rate? Also how fast is Monero nowadays compared to Bitcoin?

I guess for its niche that is not an important but its still good to know how thinks are going to be dealt with in the future.

Yes, blockchain will be bigger, but I dont see many people complaining about BTC blockchain size - it's the block size and subsuquent congestion that is the real issue, and we have that covered with adptive blocksizes, so we will never have to have the debate that is going on with BTC now. At the end of the day its just data storage, and the price paid for XMR privacy is a bigger chain. Sure, that will likely lead to more node centralisation in the future, but that seems an unavoidable part of this tech.

It is clear to me how Bitcoin with a conservative block size that allows people to run nodes + the extras that will come with segwit, confidential transactions, tumblebit, mimblewimble etc, is way more private than XMR with a network that is basically centralized (nodes too big to be spread across the globe, only corporations running the nodes).

[Febo]

Monero block chain is 8 GB what is less then Ethereum and way less then Bitcoins.

I am running a node and I am not a corporation.
So when do you expect I will become a corporation? Any timeline?

[Ayers]

bitcoin blockahain is 70GB and is growing 10 giga per year if i remember correctly, monero is 1/9 of that so why you say it's a big blockchain? of course it's much olde than let's say zcash, so it must be bigger than the new coin, but still quite small than the bigger boys

[Andretti83]

Monero block chain is 8 GB what is less then Ethereum and way less then Bitcoins.

Monero blockchain actually is around 3-3.5 GB. If you make fresh sync and have app that count traffic, you can check this.

After downloading blockchain stored in data.mdb in redundant format (to operate faster), which makes the file grow to about 8 GB.

[kolloh]

Monero block chain is 8 GB what is less then Ethereum and way less then Bitcoins.

Monero blockchain actually is around 3-3.5 GB. If you make fresh sync and have app that count traffic, you can check this.

After downloading blockchain stored in data.mdb in redundant format (to operate faster), which makes the file grow to about 8 GB.

Yeah Monero is quite a bit smaller than BTC blockchain at the moment. Though if it grows to the same adoption rate, I'm sure it has the capacity to grow just as large as bitcoin. It still has plenty of room before it reaches a level near bitcoin though.

[Spoetnik]

An interesting Monero criticism brought up a few times before over the years.

Lets say BTC has been out for 8 years at 72 gigs.
Then lets say Monero has 2 years at 8 gigs.
Lets multiply Monero.. Same time period would then be 32 gigs roughly.

So what is the difference ? ADOPTION  
Monero has none and Bitcoin has LOTS.

So imagine the user base as equal..

And that is the underlying point here people are playing games about.
If the Monero guys hope to achieve BTC levels of adoption and far greater then ?
THAT is when there is an issue.
It's about creating something with known problems from the start as mentioned in the quote here earlier.

I think it's moot point though because Monero is not going anywhere.
It peaked and is destined to toil and wallow in obscurity forever.

[Febo]

I think it's moot point though because Monero is not going anywhere.
It peaked and is destined to toil and wallow in obscurity forever.

then all worries with blockchain size are just waste of time.

[pereira4]

An interesting Monero criticism brought up a few times before over the years.

Lets say BTC has been out for 8 years at 72 gigs.
Then lets say Monero has 2 years at 8 gigs.
Lets multiply Monero.. Same time period would then be 32 gigs roughly.

So what is the difference ? ADOPTION  
Monero has none and Bitcoin has LOTS.

So imagine the user base as equal..

And that is the underlying point here people are playing games about.
If the Monero guys hope to achieve BTC levels of adoption and far greater then ?
THAT is when there is an issue.
It's about creating something with known problems from the start as mentioned in the quote here earlier.

I think it's moot point though because Monero is not going anywhere.
It peaked and is destined to toil and wallow in obscurity forever.

This is what im talking about, when you consider the idea of Monero going as high as Bitcoin's current adoption (and we are all still pioneers in bitcoin if you consider it to mainstream tier usage) then Monero collapses. It cannot avoid node centralization. Bitcoin has already solved this by going the offchain route with LN, but Monero is yet to tell us what they are going to do, and thats why I cant consider a serious long term investment for XMR.

[c789]

An interesting Monero criticism brought up a few times before over the years.

Lets say BTC has been out for 8 years at 72 gigs.
Then lets say Monero has 2 years at 8 gigs.
Lets multiply Monero.. Same time period would then be 32 gigs roughly.

So what is the difference ? ADOPTION  
Monero has none and Bitcoin has LOTS.

So imagine the user base as equal..

And that is the underlying point here people are playing games about.
If the Monero guys hope to achieve BTC levels of adoption and far greater then ?
THAT is when there is an issue.
It's about creating something with known problems from the start as mentioned in the quote here earlier.

I think it's moot point though because Monero is not going anywhere.
It peaked and is destined to toil and wallow in obscurity forever.

I'm not sure how you can say that since Monero's use is up, as well as its price. And with the release of the GUI, use should increase even more.

[Spoetnik]

Oh come on now.. be honest.
The usage of Monero does not even vaguely compete with Bitcoin.
It's improved lately ?
Well that is squat and it has a long looooooong way to go before we can entertain that silly idea.

Problems can be solved.
They won't be unless we are honest about the issues we face.

[pereira4]

An interesting Monero criticism brought up a few times before over the years.

Lets say BTC has been out for 8 years at 72 gigs.
Then lets say Monero has 2 years at 8 gigs.
Lets multiply Monero.. Same time period would then be 32 gigs roughly.

So what is the difference ? ADOPTION  
Monero has none and Bitcoin has LOTS.

So imagine the user base as equal..

And that is the underlying point here people are playing games about.
If the Monero guys hope to achieve BTC levels of adoption and far greater then ?
THAT is when there is an issue.
It's about creating something with known problems from the start as mentioned in the quote here earlier.

I think it's moot point though because Monero is not going anywhere.
It peaked and is destined to toil and wallow in obscurity forever.

I'm not sure how you can say that since Monero's use is up, as well as its price. And with the release of the GUI, use should increase even more.

But no one is addressing the underlying issues. Again, its cool if usage goes up, but how is the problem of node centralization going to be solved if the blocksize adjust dynamically? it's obvious the problem can become serious in the future if it catches up and starts getting used in bigger volumes.

[Spoetnik]

Actions speak louder than..

Profits now.. problems get fixed later 

I think that really does sum it up..

[qwizzie]

I'm curious, how many full nodes does Monero actually have at this moment ?

https://www.ethernodes.org/network/1
Ethereum nodes (incl all Mist wallets) : 5326

https://coin.dance/nodes#share
Bitcoin Core Nodes : 4799

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png
Dash Full nodes : 4226

[Febo]

I'm curious, how many full nodes does Monero actually have at this moment ?

https://www.ethernodes.org/network/1
Ethereum nodes (incl all wallets) : 5326

https://coin.dance/nodes#share
Bitcoin Core Nodes : 4799

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png
Dash Full nodes : 4226

Total nodes: 567 - Last updated: 41 minutes ago

It will go up exponentially especially when smart mining will get developed: https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/36/what-is-smart-mining

[qwizzie]

I'm curious, how many full nodes does Monero actually have at this moment ?

https://www.ethernodes.org/network/1
Ethereum nodes (incl all wallets) : 5326

https://coin.dance/nodes#share
Bitcoin Core Nodes : 4799

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png
Dash Full nodes : 4226

Total nodes: 567 - Last updated: 41 minutes ago

It will go up exponentially

Good lord, so to summarize Monero is not just centralized with its traded volume at Poloniex (94.83% takes place there), but it is also currently a centralized and weak network
with a growing blockchain size, making it difficult to host full nodes on VPS servers in the nearby future ? (i'm talking about the 15Gb VPS SSD servers that you can rent for 5$).

[Febo]

Not at all. All you said was your assumptions.  I just answered on your question how many full nods is right now. Number doubled in not that long time.

Most people mine on pools. I am sure there will be plenty new pools in future, since it is not to difficult to make and host them. But as it is right now is perfectly fine decentralised. 500+ is huge number and all big pools are respectable ones.

[qwizzie]

Not at all. All you said was your assumptions.  I just answered on your question how many full nods is right now. Number doubled in not that long time.

Most people mine on pools. I am sure there will be plenty new pools in future, since it is not to difficult to make and host them. But as it is right now is perfectly fine decentralised. 500+ is huge number and all big pools are respectable ones.

well, if you call that decentralised then i really think we need to talk about the definition of "decentralised" with regards to blockchains and its impact on scalability.  

[Febo]

Not at all. All you said was your assumptions.  I just answered on your question how many full nods is right now. Number doubled in not that long time.

Most people mine on pools. I am sure there will be plenty new pools in future, since it is not to difficult to make and host them. But as it is right now is perfectly fine decentralised. 500+ is huge number and all big pools are respectable ones.

well, if you call that decentralised then i really think we need to talk about the definition of "decentralised" with regards to blockchains and its impact on scalability.  

500 is way from word center.  Center is one.  You know in dartboard you have one center to shot at.  Problem would be if this center run out of electricity. Here are 500 centers.  So even when half world have WW3 there will be 250 centers left.

[Spoetnik]

@qwizzie
You forgot about the "Ethereum is worse" retort. 

What we seen is them simply trying to minimize and down play the OBVIOUS problem.

[Spoetnik]

5 nodes in 5 different countries is more decentralization than 2000 nodes in Amazon instances  

Are you implying something ?

Lets think of the concept of user support.
If we wanted BTC to be supported by home users mining.. it's pointless.
Why ?
Does Monero solve that problem ?

Seems to me other people are saying no.. it makes the problem worse.

So... how again is causing diversions using the retort "others are worse" work again ?