BTCJam

[notaek]

What is the deal with BTCJam?  I invested in a few loans and some of them are overdue.  When I look at the rating for the users, they are 0.  When I made the investment, they were 15.  

Have you guys been getting scammed too?  

[loszhor]

Yes, I've had a few bad experiences with BTCJam. The problem is that there is really no way to hold people who use it accountable so if they run off with the BTCs you are out of luck. Plus I've noticed that people can change their username easily even if they have loans already and still take out new ones.

[legendster]

Dont go by the Credit rating, any one can achieve that just by linking all the accounts and verifying the phone number.
When you are looking to INVEST there FIRST look for these signs to avoid getting ripped off :

0. Check for previous repayments and active or repaid loans.
1. Check the linked paypal and ebay ratings
2. SSN verified always gives an added trust advantage.
3. check for USER RATINGS.
4. check for escrow funded signs (yellow round thingy on the listing)
5. invest with many borrowers but dont invest more than 0.5 or 1 BTC per borrower, that way IF someone defaults you can still bear the loss.
Keep in mind Lending is a high risk gambling especially when it comes to bitcoins, lended correctly with the correct use of the human brain that you have and you could make more money than you can with Mt Gox trading.

The user that had a high 'Credit score rating' had his rating degraded to 0 BECAUSE he failed to pay you on time.


With that said I have 2 active listings there, check my profile and posts here and on BTCJAM and judge for yourself if you think I am worth investing on.

* I tried verifying my phone with btcjam but every time I enter the verification code it says server error.

* I have already submitted my ID & address verification but the status is still showing as "Being verified".

My active loan listings at : https://btcjam.com/listings/3299 and https://btcjam.com/listings/3154


Thanks its your earned coins, its your responsibility to make sure you dont get scammed so all the best

[Barnacle_Ed]

I'm fed up with BTCJam.

It's a great idea, but with so many scams and no realistic way to hold borrowers accountable, it's an enormous risk for lenders. With most of the interest rates on these loans in the "under 10%" range, it's not worth the risk.



With all that said, I only lost ~2 btc to shoddy loans before calling it quits...but that still would have been over $400 yesterday (and still $140 at this moment). That's quite a bit to lose to "safe" loans, and I'd hate to think how much in total has been lost on the site.

[legendster]

I'm fed up with BTCJam.

It's a great idea, but with so many scams and no realistic way to hold borrowers accountable, it's an enormous risk for lenders. With most of the interest rates on these loans in the "under 10%" range, it's not worth the risk.



With all that said, I only lost ~2 btc to shoddy loans before calling it quits...but that still would have been over $400 yesterday (and still $140 at this moment). That's quite a bit to lose to "safe" loans, and I'd hate to think how much in total has been lost on the site.

Didnt you take a risk when you decided to start mining / using BTC ?
How is this any different ?



We have to stick to the belief satoshi had - There are more good people in the world than the Bad ones.

[Barnacle_Ed]

I'm fed up with BTCJam.

It's a great idea, but with so many scams and no realistic way to hold borrowers accountable, it's an enormous risk for lenders. With most of the interest rates on these loans in the "under 10%" range, it's not worth the risk.



With all that said, I only lost ~2 btc to shoddy loans before calling it quits...but that still would have been over $400 yesterday (and still $140 at this moment). That's quite a bit to lose to "safe" loans, and I'd hate to think how much in total has been lost on the site.

Didnt you take a risk when you decided to start mining / using BTC ?
How is this any different ?



We have to stick to the belief satoshi had - There are more good people in the world than the Bad ones.

Of course I took a risk by purchasing (and using) Bitcoins,  and of course there are many upstanding characters in the cryptocurrency community. Perhaps they are a minority now, but that is a different discussion. The point is, I'm hardly arguing with that and I wholeheartedly agree...but this is not a valid defense of BTCJam.



My beef with BTCJam basically stems from:

• Lack of investor protection. If someone defaults on the site, you're shit outta luck...the ToS explicitly state that "Under no circumstances should you attempt collection on a late payment yourself. In doing so you run the risk of creating a legal liability for yourself and the website cannot be hold responsible." And, frankly, I have no idea if BTCJam bothers to try and collect on defaulted loans; due to the anonymous nature of Bitcoins, it seems like it would be quite challenging. Yes, they do now have "secured loans", but how often do you actually see them being used?
• Meaningless borrower ratings. With a Google Voice number, some bogus social networking accounts, a paypal account, and a falsified government ID...suddenly you're probably easily at over 10 points without actually proving any sort of reliability. Even judging a user by their past performance is no guarantee as I once found out the hard way after successfully loaning to this user a few times. To me, it seems there is no reliable way to judge a user's actual credibility given the information presented on BTCJam, and that bothers me greatly.

Frankly, it seems more like a gambling site than a lending site. The tools provided to investors are lacking (at best) and new users will likely be scammed a few times before learning how to tell a likely scam. When combined, these factors, in addition to my above points, provide a great environment for con artists to make a quick buck...and for investors to lose their hard-earned coins.



I think a well-defined loan recovery plan would greatly raise my opinion of BTCJam. At this time, I see no effort on their part to repatriate (or at least reliably prevent) lost investment funds, so I don't see myself using their site anytime soon.

[legendster]

What I hate about BTCJAM ? Once I invest I cant UN invest :/

[loszhor]

The sad thing is that some of the people there could use the BTC for help but if there's no lender safety or serious way to perform due diligence you're better off using BTC at a casino instead because then as stated earlier this is just gambling.

[Tulkas]

The sad thing is that some of the people there could use the BTC for help but if there's no lender safety or serious way to perform due diligence you're better off using BTC at a casino instead because then as stated earlier this is just gambling.

Our repayment rate is way higher than a cassino.

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

[Tulkas]

My beef with BTCJam basically stems from:

• Lack of investor protection. If someone defaults on the site, you're shit outta luck...the ToS explicitly state that "Under no circumstances should you attempt collection on a late payment yourself. In doing so you run the risk of creating a legal liability for yourself and the website cannot be hold responsible." And, frankly, I have no idea if BTCJam bothers to try and collect on defaulted loans; due to the anonymous nature of Bitcoins, it seems like it would be quite challenging. Yes, they do now have "secured loans", but how often do you actually see them being used?
• Meaningless borrower ratings. With a Google Voice number, some bogus social networking accounts, a paypal account, and a falsified government ID...suddenly you're probably easily at over 10 points without actually proving any sort of reliability. Even judging a user by their past performance is no guarantee as I once found out the hard way after successfully loaning to this user a few times. To me, it seems there is no reliable way to judge a user's actual credibility given the information presented on BTCJam, and that bothers me greatly.

Frankly, it seems more like a gambling site than a lending site. The tools provided to investors are lacking (at best) and new users will likely be scammed a few times before learning how to tell a likely scam. When combined, these factors, in addition to my above points, provide a great environment for con artists to make a quick buck...and for investors to lose their hard-earned coins.


I think a well-defined loan recovery plan would greatly raise my opinion of BTCJam. At this time, I see no effort on their part to repatriate (or at least reliably prevent) lost investment funds, so I don't see myself using their site anytime soon.

This is a P2P lending site, we verify the identity of borrowers, only paypal verified accounts are accepted. They have a very rigid procedure to verify an account, you must have access to the credit card statement of the person, you must be able to deposit some pennies via credit card on paypal account with the same identity and the address must match.

Please, i invite you to submit a falsified ID to the site an try to get it approved.

We have also started to implement the first steps toward collection, we have now international arbitration and the identities of the borrowers will be disclosed in case of default. More news soon.

[cryptoanarchist]

OMG..You sound like a bunch of whiney, government fed babies on here: "Wahhh..I want to invest with zero risk..wahhh"

Grow the F up. Why don't you look at the LOAN HISTORY of people and see if they have repaid loans? Invest with people who you can verify their online identity and reputation.

Honestly, you all sound like you want someone to hold your hand while you take a shit.

[ehmdjii]

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

and when will that happen?

[John (John K.)]

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

and when will that happen?

When people stop using BTCJam.

[Tulkas]

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

and when will that happen?

When people stop using BTCJam.

John, do you really think the best thing to do is to use the unverified, informal, anonymous, post count reputation based lending that goes on this forum?

We have a contract signed with them, the loan is considered a default after 120 days late.

The documents will be handed to the authorities and to investors if the award is issued.

[John (John K.)]

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

and when will that happen?

When people stop using BTCJam.

John, do you really think the best thing to do is to use the unverified, informal, anonymous, post count reputation based lending that goes on this forum?

We have a contract signed with them, the loan is considered a default after 120 days late.

The documents will be handed to the authorities and to investors if the award is issued.

I have yet to see an example of what you said happening. Can you point me an example of where you have taken such measures to recover the principle (and the interests involved)?

I see such threads popping up a lot: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166974.0

[lerelerele]

I am tying to get my first Asic with this method, my family dont trust in BTC like me and the first investment cant be the total of the cost. So I think I can get 0.57229BTC at month from my monthly budget and Ill try to go for it.

I think that will be profitable for me but sure will be profitable for the investors.

Thanks BTCJam for this service.

[ehmdjii]

it seems the note sell feature is currently broken.
i cant put anything up for sale.

[Tulkas]

Also, the rating system is here to prevent anonymous people to run with your coins. We also have implemented international arbitration, the defaulters will have their identities disclosed as we get the partnership going.

and when will that happen?

When people stop using BTCJam.

John, do you really think the best thing to do is to use the unverified, informal, anonymous, post count reputation based lending that goes on this forum?

We have a contract signed with them, the loan is considered a default after 120 days late.

The documents will be handed to the authorities and to investors if the award is issued.

I have yet to see an example of what you said happening. Can you point me an example of where you have taken such measures to recover the principle (and the interests involved)?

I see such threads popping up a lot: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166974.0

We are finishing the API integration, the legal aspects are solved . The new agreement is online and all the current loans will be affected.

We are waiting the integration to finish to make the announcement.

[Tulkas]

it seems the note sell feature is currently broken.
i cant put anything up for sale.

What do you mean by "anything"? All your investments?

[Matthew N. Wright]

That's a fine addition to BTCJam, Tulkas!