Please help me clarify how Coinbase works

[nrgBitmagic]

I initiated a buy order on April 4, 2013 and the btc price used to calculate the total deducted from my bank account was $131. The buy happened today according to my receipt and I have a question about that.

Are the bitcoins actually "bought"? If so, at what price? With all the volatility, I assumed that when the buy actually happened according to the time/date stamp on the order, the price could be anywhere from $100 to $200. I wondered if I would get all 10btc or less if the price was above $131. What if the price today was less?

Or, am I completely confused about this and something completely different happened, than would happen on say, a stock purchase? Did Coinbase have btc already available and just moved them to my wallet at the appointed time?

What is the purpose of the checkbox that states "I acknowledge that the amount of BTC I receive will vary based on future exchange rates." What is the purpose of the week delay between order and buy?

I appreciated the ease of transacting on this site after wearing myself out pursuing more complicated/less reliable avenues. But, I expected more transparency from Coinbase as to what happened and for how much.

So, someone, please tell me what happened there?

[Wingman4l7]

Coinbase currently has a 24-hour rolling limit (of unknown quantity and timing) on the total number of buy orders they'll put through.  I don't know why but my guess is that it has to do with the volume of orders they can handle or their operating capital or something like that.

In order to mitigate this limit, they introduced a feature which lets you buy X USD worth of BTC, and the purchase will go through when your ACH bank transfer has cleared.  Unfortunately, since it's using their existing buy interface, it's a bit confusing, because it looks like you're buying a certain quantity of BTC.  In reality, you'll just get whatever the current BTC equivalent of that USD is when your transfer clears.  So, in the case of the limit being met, you need to ignore the amount of BTC that it claims you're buying, and just monkey with that number against the current exchange rate to make an order for however much you're willing to spend in USD.

The purpose of the week delay is to ensure that your ACH bank transfer clears.  They have to do this to mitigate fraud, as they're dealing with exchanging USD via a reversible payment (ACH transfer) for BTC, a non-reversible payment.

[nrgBitmagic]

Thanks for that. I'm still a bit confused.

The buy order was for 10btc @ $131 placed on 4/4/13, totaling $1310. The transfer was complete at my bank on 4/9/13. That day, the price was over $200. The buy happened on 4/10/13. That day, the price was moving up and down.

If I got the btc equivalent on the date the money cleared, that would be $1310/$200=6.5btc. However, the receipt says, "On Apr 4, 2013 you purchased 10.00 BTC via bank transfer. Those bitcoins are now available in your Coinbase account!"

So, I got the price as it was on 4/4/13 and not 4/9/13, when the money cleared. So, then why did I have to check that box that says the amount of btc I receive will vary based on future rates? I thought Coinbase didn't allow price locking.

Did I get the $131 price because the price had come back down by the time the buy happened or because I was able to lock it in on the buy order?

Why can't they give a receipt that states what happened in reality like you get with a stock transaction?

[Wingman4l7]

Sounds like you made an order when the 24-hour rolling limit hadn't been hit -- in which case you got 10 BTC for the exchange rate that was displayed at the time of purchase, like normal.  

Was there that header warning about the limit being displayed at the time of your purchase?  If that limit message was being displayed (and it probably was, with the volume of trading recently it seems to always be there) then you bought at the price that BTC would be when your ACH transfer cleared.  If this was the case, the real question then is: how many BTC are actually in your account -- 10, or less than that?  As I highly doubt that your transfer cleared several days later at exactly the same price, the receipt may just be saying that you bought 10 BTC because that's the number you put into the purchase form, even though you really got the equivalent USD amount when your transfer cleared.  The "purchase at a future price" feature was a hacky fix to get around their limit IMO -- this is evident with the BTC purchase amount / USD equivalent confusion that I explained earlier.  Their receipt may be "wrong" because of this, too.  If this is the case then someone should probably email them about it; I know they plan to remove the 24-hour rolling limit at some point in the future, but in the meantime that needs to be fixed, especially if they plan to keep the "future price" purchase option.

Not sure why you had to check that box; I thought that was really only for orders made when the limit has been hit.  I wouldn't be surprised if requiring that box to be checked even if you're buying at the current rate is just another UI "bug" related to the hacky limit fix.

Why don't you get a receipt?  It's a beta site.  They have some other neat features, but at this time, that's not one of them.  *shrug*  Maybe you should send them feedback suggesting that!  

[nrgBitmagic]

Yes, the header about the 24-hour rolling limit was present on the buy screen when I submitted the buy order. In addition, the first two times I attempted a buy order, there was also a header up stating something to the effect that they had no more btc and to check back later.

As to how many btc are in my account, on the sell screen, it states "Your current balance is 10.00 BTC. " On the transactions page it says, "Balance: 10.00 BTC ≈ 1,110.00 USD" If there is another place to check for another balance that may be more true, please tell me.

If I really do have 10btc that means execution happened exactly according to the buy order and all this hedging about future prices and the like was unnecessary, or at the least, a bit alarmist. I mean, if they were able to pull off a buy order on 4/10/13, the day of blistering volatility, at *exactly* the same price as indicated on the buy 6 days prior, then it appears to me, the btc were already in place well before that date and all this talk of scarcity was just that. Dontchathink? Or am I missing something? I guess it's possible they had all those conditions/protections in place to avoid a possible problem with price fluctuations or availability. Or maybe they were trying to work out processes for high volume periods like the last few weeks, something sorely needed in the btc world.

Now, on the other hand, if I have some amount less than 10btc, despite all indications in my account and on my receipt to the contrary, then that is a much bigger problem that is clearly a huge issue and one that needs to be rectified ASAP.

Btw, the rolling limit header is gone now, as well as the check box.

So, what's really happening? administrative delay? growing pains? btc scarcity? playing the float? beta site strangeness? something I cannot imagine? I'm not complaining, it went down exactly as I directed. It would just be helpful if there was more information. I will email my comments to Coinbase searching for a definitive answer to my question. Will post anything worthy.

[Severian]

Coinbase: a description

Also, trusting an outfit run by a Goldman Sachs acolyte is somewhat touch and go.

[nrgBitmagic]

Ok, so I read "Coinbase: a description". Haha, I get it now. Just as I thought.

HOWEVER, I have to say this:

After two weeks, of chasing bitcoin with not even limited success, the sweet and easy candy of the Coinbase Siren, saying to me, "Come, come to me. Link to me your bank account of USD, let me suckle it's teet and with your nectar in my lips for 6 days, I will provide you with the COIN of the Realm of the Peerage. It is effortless, cheap and for only a few clicks, you can have that which Western Union, Swift Exchange, Liberty Reserve and MtGox will not give, I will give you the COIN."

[Wingman4l7]

Hm, okay.  Well I have no idea what happened then -- I don't understand how you were able to buy at the then-current price if they had hit their limit at the time. Maybe you bought right when they had reset their limit. If they say you have 10 BTC in your account, then that's definitely what you have.

EDIT:  It was a bug:

The bug here was that when the page loaded market price orders were available. You clicked the box to agree to market rate orders. But by the time "Buy Bitcoins" was clicked, fixed price orders had become available again in the background - and that is what got incorrectly saved on your order as you clicked the button.

As for what's happening, it's like I described before -- basically growing pains, yes.  The whole "buy at the future market price when your transfer clears" is just a stop-gap solution until they're able to handle the increased volume of buy orders.

Coinbase: a description

Also, trusting an outfit run by a Goldman Sachs acolyte is somewhat touch and go.

That metaphor-thread is belittling and inaccurate at best.  Not sure why Severian has it out for Coinbase.  As far as "Goldman Sachs acolyte" goes -- it's true that Fred Ehrsam, a former Goldman Sachs Forex trader, is a co-founder of Coinbase -- but I already gave my opinion on that here.

[Severian]

 Not sure why Severian has it out for Coinbase.

Because they're bad for Bitcoin. They exist to collect bitcoins for Goldman Sachs using other peoples' money.

If you believe a GS forex trader is in the biz to help Bitcoin, I have some btc for paypal to sell to you.

[Wingman4l7]

 Not sure why Severian has it out for Coinbase.

Because they're bad for Bitcoin. They exist to collect bitcoins for Goldman Sachs using other peoples' money.

If you believe a GS forex trader is in the biz to help Bitcoin, I have some btc for paypal to sell to you.

Why do you keep saying that?  That's a completely unsubstantiated claim -- not to mention disingenuous.  Coinbase makes its money on fees, just like any other exchange.  Yes, one of the founders used to work for Goldman Sachs as a forex trader.  That's no secret.  Do you have any proof whatsoever that he still works for them, or is carrying out an agenda on their behalf?

[Severian]

Fred left a promising career at GS for a stint at an SV startup. How plucky.

[Wingman4l7]

Start-ups are risky -- but you stand to make a lot of money if you're successful.  Facebook?  Apple?  *shrug*