Signed message... breaking?

[Eliteman12]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

[shorena]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

A signed message is proof you control a certain bitcoin address, a new address wont do. You are usually asked to sign a message with a specific address that you controlled in the past.

[Eliteman12]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

A signed message is proof you control a certain bitcoin address, a new address wont do. You are usually asked to sign a message with a specific address that you controlled in the past.

But even then, person could just have old address with no bitcoins in it and lie in signature. Or this don't work like that?

[shorena]

-snip-
But even then, person could just have old address with no bitcoins in it and lie in signature. Or this don't work like that?

What do you mean with "lie in signature"?

[Eliteman12]

I don't know if this can happen of course, but when using signed message to prove that you own something else than address, i saw some people doing that. So they could lie that they own something else while they don't?

[shorena]

I don't know if this can happen of course, but when using signed message to prove that you own something else than address, i saw some people doing that. So they could lie that they own something else while they don't?

They can write whatever they want. A signed message can not proof the message itself is true, it can only show you that its still the same person you trusted 2 years ago. Well, unless that person sold the private key to the address. Its not the holy grail of establishing trust, it can just be a piece in a bigger picture.

[Eliteman12]

I see. It is strange to see that some people trusts signed message a lot.Well, i guess it is still better than nothing

[lenoli]

with signed message you just can prove that the account is not stolen or hacked and belongs to you. and if you are high rank member and can prove that the account belong to you, many users will trust you for a small amount of btc.

[Velkro]

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

I don't get it, he lies about it? Lies about what, that he signed? It doesn't matter man.
Signing message is proof that you control specific bitcoin address. U can't fake it, u can't lie about it, because its easy to verify if its true or not. Simple as that.
This scum that pretended to be satoshi lately, tricked gavin with words. There was no proof in that case.

[Arcteryx]

I think he is asking if they can fake a signed message..
It seems that OP doesn't understand that when a signed message is written (created) then it can be verified with it so it can't be faked or counterfeited.
Their are sites that can do this validation process for you now.

[Eliteman12]

Well after reading answers, i started to unserstand more about signed messages, as my thoughts about them were very different before reading!

[Arcteryx]

After seeing where some of your posts lie is is safe to assume that you want to know about signing a message for an account sale that you are doing.
In that case the buyer wants to see if you the actual owner of that account that you claim to own. He or she is wanting to see if you can sign a message from a previous address that was staked on it's account in a previous post which would be nearly impossible if you were the original account holder or from the time that they are asking you to sign a message from.

[jaceefrost]

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

Signing a message is only valid if the address you are signing from is older than 3 months. There is no way you can lie about it because the signature muat be verified first before someone accepts it. They can verify if ou really signed the address using their own client or coinig and blocktrail.
New wallet is not accepted .

[anorganix]

Well after reading answers, i started to unserstand more about signed messages, as my thoughts about them were very different before reading!

There is a complete and very well documented topic here, thanks to shorena.
One use case for signing messages is to stake your address for future reference.


HTH.

[Eliteman12]

After seeing where some of your posts lie is is safe to assume that you want to know about signing a message for an account sale that you are doing.
In that case the buyer wants to see if you the actual owner of that account that you claim to own. He or she is wanting to see if you can sign a message from a previous address that was staked on it's account in a previous post which would be nearly impossible if you were the original account holder or from the time that they are asking you to sign a message from.

I had other thread for this reason, but after i got negative trust i changed my minds and not selling anymore, so thought i'll know more about signed messages

Well after reading answers, i started to unserstand more about signed messages, as my thoughts about them were very different before reading!

There is a complete and very well documented topic here, thanks to shorena.
One use case for signing messages is to stake your address for future reference.


HTH.

yes this is very good topic, but problem is that it don't have all answers

[MWesterweele]

Edit: I may have overlooked that post because it was not in the way the links are used to be. To prove that my intentions are pure, here is a link for another discussion regarding signed message.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/25730/what-should-i-say-when-i-sign-a-message-to-prove-that-i-own-an-address

[Eliteman12]

I don't know if this can happen of course, but when using signed message to prove that you own something else than address, i saw some people doing that. So they could lie that they own something else while they don't?

They can write whatever they want. A signed message can not proof the message itself is true, it can only show you that its still the same person you trusted 2 years ago. Well, unless that person sold the private key to the address. Its not the holy grail of establishing trust, it can just be a piece in a bigger picture.

You can find the most of the answer in shorena's thread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990345

The uses and with that you will be able to know how people can use it.

Are you posting only to have 1 more post for signature campaign? Because if you would have read past messages of some users you would see that one sent me this link

[2double0]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

If you are confused with like, someone can lie about themselves and scam anyone, then you didn't get the concept completely.
I think people are allowed to provide their bitcoin address on their profile as well they have a thread where they can stake their address and as long as it gets older and you gain trust, then only you will be proven trustworthy, else using new wallet and signing a message for anything couldn't get your work done if your intention is to scam. That's why you need to stay alert, and if you are unsure about such problems, you can let a third party to come between that person and you for anything, like your trade to become more secure.

[Eliteman12]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

If you are confused with like, someone can lie about themselves and scam anyone, then you didn't get the concept completely.
I think people are allowed to provide their bitcoin address on their profile as well they have a thread where they can stake their address and as long as it gets older and you gain trust, then only you will be proven trustworthy, else using new wallet and signing a message for anything couldn't get your work done if your intention is to scam. That's why you need to stay alert, and if you are unsure about such problems, you can let a third party to come between that person and you for anything, like your trade to become more secure.

That's for your large answer. Also, how can i know how old any wallet(or address?) Is?

[user27]

So i am writing with signed message question again, this time i couldn't find info.

So signed messages proves something, for example, that we are owner of wallet or account or something else(most common uses that i found on this forum), and everyone trusts it.

But what if person that signs it, lies about it? It shouldn't be hard to use tor, new wallet, and that's all. So why signed messages are so trusted?

If you are confused with like, someone can lie about themselves and scam anyone, then you didn't get the concept completely.
I think people are allowed to provide their bitcoin address on their profile as well they have a thread where they can stake their address and as long as it gets older and you gain trust, then only you will be proven trustworthy, else using new wallet and signing a message for anything couldn't get your work done if your intention is to scam. That's why you need to stay alert, and if you are unsure about such problems, you can let a third party to come between that person and you for anything, like your trade to become more secure.

That's for your large answer. Also, how can i know how old any wallet(or address?) Is?

The point is that you posted an address to receive payment in the past, or you have staked the address on the forum. So that essentially proves that you owned the address whilst you are still being trustworthy and dealing with bitcoins.

Say, if you take a 1 year holiday from the forum and come back, people suspect you to be hacked.

If you can sign a message that is able to reflect that you still own the old address, that's how you prove that you're not a hacked account.