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Author Topic: Speculation on MtGox 12 hour shutdown  (Read 6127 times)
Jaques
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April 11, 2013, 04:38:58 PM
 #41

As long as Mt.Gox does not stop transfers of BTC to other exchanges, this is very good. People will migrate their BTC to other exchanges, and Mt.Gox's market share will dwindle. That is a good thing.

However, I fear that all the money that has been deposited into Mt.Gox will be locked in there (since it's kind of a hassle to move money out of Mt.Gox), and that will make the USD/BTC exchange rate go even lower.

good point
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April 11, 2013, 04:50:04 PM
 #42

Remember: NO RULES. if you can't handle that, switch to Ben's S&P500 again  Kiss

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April 11, 2013, 05:03:37 PM
 #43

They aren't stopping people from transferring their BTC to other exchanges.

Speak for yourself... I tried to pull 5BTC out of Mt.Gox to my personal wallet.

"Your account is currently pending review, please visit https://mtgox.com/forms/verification"

Yeah... 5 BTC should not require account verification, well under the $1000/day limit...
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April 11, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
 #44

Glad I cashed out last night, might OKPay my funds over to BTC-E before it starts rising.

"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy." -Sun Tzu
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April 11, 2013, 05:11:45 PM
 #45

I bet when this starts back it will lag immediately and you'll see those tiny bot bids flood the market....they'll simulate a bounce from psychological support (as they always attempt) and hope it sticks. Won't last very long if there is real selling coming through. Then they will blame the lag on the server upgrade, and the whole pattern starts all over again.

Everything about Mt Gox is ridiculous. IMO They are trying to keep this thing pumped because they know how perilous the situation is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172944.msg1805765#msg1805765

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April 11, 2013, 05:19:08 PM
 #46

you people really need to start learning how to use other exchanges.  virwox.com has always been solid for me. yea, its an extra step converting USD to SLL, but they've always been solid. there's also localbitcoins.com if you want to circumvent exchanges altogether.
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April 11, 2013, 05:20:51 PM
 #47

you people really need to start learning how to use other exchanges.  virwox.com has always been solid for me. yea, its an extra step converting USD to SLL, but they've always been solid. there's also localbitcoins.com if you want to circumvent exchanges altogether.

Localbitcoins is a wonderful site.
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April 11, 2013, 05:25:17 PM
 #48

you people really need to start learning how to use other exchanges.  virwox.com has always been solid for me. yea, its an extra step converting USD to SLL, but they've always been solid. there's also localbitcoins.com if you want to circumvent exchanges altogether.

Are you joking? Virwox has CRAZY fees and you can just convert WHOLE Bitcoins from SSL, so you always have stuck SSL in the account.

Virwox just good to buy your first BTC's fast, not to seriously trade.

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April 11, 2013, 11:25:48 PM
 #49

Who has the next most trading volume after Mtgox Huh

BTCE
BITSTAMP
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Bitfloor
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April 12, 2013, 12:16:44 AM
 #50

Thoughts? You're absolutely correct. 100% correct in fact.
The only winner is gox. They fucked everyone else over and will reopen tomorrow playing big victim of the evil ddos.

I've been in IT for 14 years and never seen something so poorly disguised.
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April 12, 2013, 04:57:20 AM
 #51

you people really need to start learning how to use other exchanges.  virwox.com has always been solid for me. yea, its an extra step converting USD to SLL, but they've always been solid. there's also localbitcoins.com if you want to circumvent exchanges altogether.

Localbitcoins is a wonderful site.

Does Localbitcoins make any sense in the electronic world ? probably for an odd one or two bitcoins , but for any meaningful number ??

Lets see the status now - April 11 2013, PDT 10 p.m. approx

Take localbitcoins locations outside of USA

see the PRICE DIFF between the price of bitcoins on bitstamp or any recognised exchange and the local guy (localbitcoins)

you will faint !

I just checked some NON US locations


First location Singapore / just chosen at Random
------------------------------------------------------

At Singapore, as on 11 April 2013, approx 9.45 PDT, Bitcoins are being sold for anything between SGD 116 to SGD 295

Let us assume I go to cheapest guy, the SGD 116 guy

even that is approx USD 93 ~ 94

the current price on Bitstamp is some $ 60 ~ $ 70 !!

how can physical holding of bitcoins ever replace electronic exchanges in such a volatile market ?

I have added screen shots below

If you take other centers like India, the spreads and price differences are even worse … attocious spreads as well

Screen shots of India are also given below

All screen shots taken about the same time as this blog is posted … (say minus 5 to 10 minutes to type this blog)

blog of details + screenshots at : http://bit.ly/10XJqhq

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April 12, 2013, 06:20:45 AM
 #52

I bet when this starts back it will lag immediately and you'll see those tiny bot bids

Limiting tiny bids would be a good start. Or btc penalty for more than say 100 bids pr. hour.
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April 12, 2013, 06:47:44 AM
 #53

I bet when this starts back it will lag immediately and you'll see those tiny bot bids

Limiting tiny bids would be a good start. Or btc penalty for more than say 100 bids pr. hour.


DING DING DING !! We got a winner!!!! Im been trying to get awareness out and even started a thread but retards took it over!

ill quote myself to save time as its from multiple threads!! 


--------------------------
 
Ok now to the goods...

We got people attacking the community and bitcoin in general via ddos attacks and coordinated bot action !

Example! Ill quote myself from the other thread later but its not hard to see. We have issues outside of the DDOS which is obviously giving the exchanges a hard time!(! Not just mtgox either

The issues are a bots making trades under the minimum amount not doubt using high frequency trading algorithms that make purchases a few peanuts at a time !

The effect is they can make purchase via api and custom bots that come in a lot faster than regular traders can purchase.. so the bots just make a load of low price high volume trades(micro trades) and on lookers (noobs) staring at charts that they dont even understand are seeing red arrows pointing downwards and the price per bitcoin falling and they cant even make a trade because of the lag being put on the system because of the DDOS and the BOTS!!

It looks likes the price is tanking and it ensues a panic sell off at which point a crap load of people loose funds ( those people are the new comers whos confidence we need!!) we need onlookers and investors to embrace bitcoin. We dont need people looking at it like a noob slaughter house where you show up and get scammed out of your btc or fiat  money!


So the bots only have to initiate the landslide and the herd just follows like dumb arses!!


here is a quote from the other thread regarding micro trade filtering and DDOS!






(i was referring to mtdox when i said ask them)

ask em about that!!! Macro order flooding  via bots that trap out regular customer but computer systems dont get trapped out in a panic and they can drive it down via 50 a pop or smaller!! happens every-time is there is a panic! Like someone is manipulating !! Doesn't care about $ its micro manipulate and watch it tank! (look at the dam pics!!)

 Gox needs to filter out micro or macro trades or do something! Thats whats cause's the wild drops and panic !! Probably banks with some bots and endless fiat money!  Needs to be addressed!


Drive it down via those small trades and watch the herd jump ship ! Since there is no cooling period or auto shut off its disastrous! !

Thats whats gonna kill it!  We need a % slide rule and cooling period put in like the real wall-street trading platforms do!

If it falls by x amount they stop trading for x amount of time! "Cooling period"  Hours .. till the next day! Whatever .. something is better than nothing!




At this rate in this setup.. a foreign entity with negative intention's towards bitcoin could micro trades us to our deaths!




Look.. they switch it up .. this time 50c at a time!

Its the same bots!! getting in faster than everyone else to make the trades at 50c a pop and driving it downwards!
 while the regular folks are stuck watching .. trapped cant make a trade and just watch the landslide until they can stop the bleeding and get in to "sell".







Then after the herd sells the same bot operator grabs a crap load of cheap coins .. RINSE & Repeat!!


Happens every-time there is a panic !! EVERY-TIME!!




YOURE ARE BEING PLAYED LIKE A VIDEO GAME!!


Get mtgox and the other exchanges to acknowledge this and take steps!!

The wont unless there is massive pressure because they profit obnoxiously from these mass sell off .. to the tune of millions!!!!

they get a % of all the trades people!



 
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April 12, 2013, 06:53:39 AM
 #54

TO zedicus:

Is the problem the bots themselves or lack of education by newb traders? I personally lost craploads of btc trading when I started because I had no idea what I was doing. Eventually you learn and are better for it is my attitude. Perhaps there should be some trading training site strongly suggested that people use before trading btc?
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April 12, 2013, 07:09:11 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2013, 07:42:02 AM by zedicus
 #55

TO zedicus:

Is the problem the bots themselves or lack of education by newb traders? I personally lost craploads of btc trading when I started because I had no idea what I was doing. Eventually you learn and are better for it is my attitude. Perhaps there should be some trading training site strongly suggested that people use before trading btc?


Youre so right we need sticky's for the noobs.. but ultimately bitcoin is moving way to fast and that should be positive. but the adoption rate vs the learning curve is just a loosing battle! So we really dont have a choice becasue "they"  are using bitcoins swagger against itself!

The more the flood gates open the more the fud campaigns rise because noobs are getting slaughters at the gates! Like you said its ok thats whats supposed to happen ...

Youre not gonna be an expert on day one! But this effect the liquidity of the sentiment of bitcoin in general! Bitcoin currently is like an apple product thats getting mass attention! Be arent even understanding its merits or its fundamentals and they are coming in droves!

when those droves turn into articles about life savings and suicide its going to attract negative mojo, via governments and the likes!!



If it was natural market conditions then we could safely laugh at the noobs and say to ourself yep ... we were once there!!


Ill reuse my example about basket ball.. if you ever watched someone learning to dunk then when they hit all rim and fall on there arse its hilarious but if someone was learning to dunk and you have a crowd throwing rocks and bottles at them as an on looker youre thinking hey thats fekked up!! That could be me when i was trying to learn!! Suddenly its not funny!

ddos and HFT bots with macro trading! Its the cause of the lag the mass panic the fud campaign!!

We can mitigate the ddos but the bots have to be dealt with! I understand there are alot of bot runners with no bad intensions and its unfair to say its all the bots but we need to filter this micro trading!!! asap!





 
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April 12, 2013, 07:29:33 AM
 #56




 

 
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April 12, 2013, 06:53:27 PM
 #57

zedicus is there a way that we can take advantage of those bots ? like playing the same game as they are ?
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April 12, 2013, 11:09:08 PM
 #58

zedicus is there a way that we can take advantage of those bots ? like playing the same game as they are ?

I dunno, its an embarrassment to our eco-system.. I was thinking about something along the lines of what you were but i dunno if two wrongs make a right!

We need to public make an uproar over this! The bots needs to be filtered out and if they want to play than they must pay as an example no regular trader does 50-75 trades in say and hour! Its just not gonna happen..or not likely!  But a bot will do so easy with micro trades that clog the exchanges!

So if they want to manipulate the market with their bots than makem pay .. 50 max trades an hour or $100 fee there after and for every 50 more!! (all bots abusing the system would vanish) Unless its the banks with endless fiat $.

Regular bot owner can still leverage the api and automate their trading strategy!

Mtgox or any other exchange wont do anything unless we pressure them! They make an absurd amount of $ from the mass panics so they love it. The association with the price and the lag is not something people are imagining ..

Deal with the bots and the lag goes away! Plain and simple! But they wont admit to that let alone take action because they profit insanely from it!! 





If all else fails i guess we can get an army of bots and just flood the system so that nobody can make trades but the bots !
Thereby forcing them to take action! But their response would be to upgrade servers and more ssd's because they are swimming in money and dont want to see the bots go!

The bots could belong to members of this forum, or banks, government, people who run or advocate competing digital currency's or outside partys with interests beyond the scope of this conversation.

Either way its a huge blind spot on bitcoin and i dont know how many more crashhes and fud campaigns our infant mutant currency cant take. But we have a mutant freakshow currency thats kicking arse and taking names later so if you think people are gunning for us now.. you havent seen anything yet!

Bitcoin is still an infant and they are scared to death of it .. so there is alot at play and alot at risk. If we can get people to stop fixating on the price per coin for a quick sec and address this stuff the coming days would be momentous! 
 

At the minimum we need a continuous dialog about these bots publicly and raise awareness! Big time!

 
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April 13, 2013, 12:31:56 AM
 #59

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7ahh/we_are_mt_gox_ama/

Let em know! lots of other people are!! Read the posts!! Its clear as day but unless people speak up nothing will happen except rinse and repeat!

 
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dooglus
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April 13, 2013, 01:24:26 AM
 #60

Does Localbitcoins make any sense in the electronic world ? probably for an odd one or two bitcoins , but for any meaningful number ??

If you can find someone near you with a reasonable price, it's the quickest way of getting into Bitcoin.  The problem with the exchanges is that it takes days or weeks to get your dollars into them.

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