Zhuan Falun (Turning The Law Wheel)

[EnergyGem]

Hi all,

I've come across a fascinating book that talks about high level spiritual things from a scientific perspective. This book is intriguing as it talks about many similar things to what people in mystical states mention such as seeing into parallel dimensions and interacting with beings from other worlds etc.

This book is called Zhuan Falun and it is from the Buddha Law School of Cultivation however it is not Buddhism the religion or Daoism the religion, it's something more profound. It seems to me to be more of a spiritual science as many of the terms and concepts in the book are talked about in a scientific down to earth manner instead of flowery mystical prose which I found very refreshing.

Now here is where it gets interesting, this book talks about the following things:

● Other Dimensions - Levels Of Dimensions spanning into the microcosm and also outwards into the macrocosm

● The Soul - It talks about people having a Master soul and a subordinate soul which is hidden from you but is at a more advanced level then you, it states some people have more then one Subordinate soul and some are of not of the same sex as you i.e males having a female subordinate soul etc.

● Microcosmic worlds - This concept was very far out but it talks about there being worlds within you, countless worlds. Similar to our world with life , water, animals etc. An analogy is zooming an an atom within one of your cells and realizing at that level of magnification it is just like our solar system. Then zooming into a single particle in that world and finding out it too is a vast world, apparently the level it can go onwards like this is beyond imagination.

● Supernatural Abilities - In the book they mention that everyone has them it is just that they have atrophied. It goes into depth about this topic. Some abilities that are mentioned are precognition, retrocognition and remote vision.

● The 3rd Eye - Talks about how at the front part of our pineal gland there is a complete structure of an eye there. Modern science calls it a vestigial eye but in the cultivation world they say this eye just naturally exists like that and it can be activated allowing one to pierce through this dimension and see other dimensions. It talks about how there are many levels to this 3rd eye and it goes into great depth about it.

● Thoughts - This part was amazing. It talks about how a human brain is just a processing plant. How the real you is actually your soul, it's like your whole body and brain is just a vehicle and that the true commands are issued by your master soul, but this master soul is very tiny and it can switch positions while inside you and it can also expand and shrink. It can move from your brain to your heart and to other parts of your body and it is 'he' who calls the shots. Your brain is just the factory which your master soul sends his cosmic commands to which then create the forms of expression and communication we use such as speech, gestures, etc.

These are just a few things that are covered but there are many many other things which blew my mind when I read it because of how it resonated with some of the mystical experiences people sometimes have, especially the multidimensional nature of reality and how all of them are hidden in our day to day perceptions of the world.
If this sounds interesting to anyone you can grab a copy of the book here:

http://en.falundafa.org/eng/pdf/ZFL2014.pdf

[Xester]

This Zhuan Falun thing is trying to link the western style and the eastern style of thinking. It tries to bind the spiritual and the scientific. This is my first time reading Zhuan Falun, I have not encountered it in any of my philosophical books in eastern culture. I appreciate this kind of things since when I was in college taking Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy I always tried to reconcile the western and eastern thought including the spiritual realm and  the scientific. It is hard since I got headaches from analyzing things, but since you posted this Zhuan Falun I got curious and probably research more on it to grasp the concepts and ideas it has to offer.

[EnergyGem]

Yes I found it very interesting myself, it really covers many spiritual things in great depth and detail. You're right about the reconciling of both spirit and science, they have actually performed some scientific tests on Falun Dafa disciples, here is one of the findings:

http://www.pureinsight.org/node/189

[EnergyGem]

Mr Li Hongzhi was also interviewed by Time Asia (it's infact how I came about Falun Dafa). It's a fascinating interview and goes into various topics including what Falun Dafa is really about. If anyone is interested in checking it out here's the link:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

[qwik2learn]

I agree there are interesting concepts in this book but what seems odd to me is how many important subjects are not explained in any detail and the idea that "only Master Li can help you to become enlightened". I did receive benefit from these exercises and from the teachings but I am skeptical about the personality that is Mr. Li, I suggest searching this forum for more threads about this book, you can find some more critiques.

[Slow death]

He talks about Supernatural Abilities, Other Dimensions, Soul... this all sounds like a fairy tale

233 pages and I did not see any convincing proof.

Mr Li Hongzhi was also interviewed by Time Asia (it's infact how I came about Falun Dafa). It's a fascinating interview and goes into various topics including what Falun Dafa is really about. If anyone is interested in checking it out here's the link:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

TIME: Would you use qigong to cure an illness?
Li: I can do all of this, but I won't do it.

 

TIME: Why not?
Li: Because I only teach people how to learn this dafa [great law] and to practice cultivation. I only teach the principles of fa to mankind. I won't do anything else.

 

TIME: In your book [Zhuan Falun] you talk about people levitating off the ground but you say that they should not show other people. Why is that?
Li: It is the same principle that Western gods in paradise should not be seen by ordinary mortals because they cannot understand its meaning.

Wow!

TIME: Can qigong prevent death?
Li: In the West, one can reach paradise through cultivation practice after death. In the East, one can achieve a divine status through cultivation practice while one is still alive.

They forgot to ask: what supernatural powers Mr Li has?

[EnergyGem]

He talks about Supernatural Abilities, Other Dimensions, Soul... this all sounds like a fairy tale

233 pages and I did not see any convincing proof.

Mr Li Hongzhi was also interviewed by Time Asia (it's infact how I came about Falun Dafa). It's a fascinating interview and goes into various topics including what Falun Dafa is really about. If anyone is interested in checking it out here's the link:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

TIME: Would you use qigong to cure an illness?
Li: I can do all of this, but I won't do it.

 

TIME: Why not?
Li: Because I only teach people how to learn this dafa [great law] and to practice cultivation. I only teach the principles of fa to mankind. I won't do anything else.

 

TIME: In your book [Zhuan Falun] you talk about people levitating off the ground but you say that they should not show other people. Why is that?
Li: It is the same principle that Western gods in paradise should not be seen by ordinary mortals because they cannot understand its meaning.

Wow!

TIME: Can qigong prevent death?
Li: In the West, one can reach paradise through cultivation practice after death. In the East, one can achieve a divine status through cultivation practice while one is still alive.

They forgot to ask: what supernatural powers Mr Li has?

There is a reason why Supernatural Abilities are not to be shown to the secular world arbitrarily, Mr Li Hongzhi explains this here:

http://en.falundafa.org/eng/html/zfl2/zfl2.htm#13



Qwik2Learn Mr Li Hongzhi doesn't say his is the only way. He explains that there are many paths to the Truth and that a person should be allowed to choose whichever path he wants, free will should always be respected.

From Zhuan Falun:

excerpt 1:

"Here we’re teaching you to take the right path, and along with that, we’re teaching you the Law inside and out and encouraging you to have your own understanding of it, but it’s still up to you whether you decide to learn it. The master leads you through the door, but cultivation is up to you. Nobody’s going to push you to cultivate. It’s up to you whether you cultivate. Or to put it another way, when you choose your own path, when you decide what you want, or when you’re trying to get something—nobody will stop you. They can only try to kindly persuade you"

excerpt 2:

"Our Falun Dafa is one of the Buddhist system’s 84,000 disciplines. It’s never been passed on to the general public before during this period of civilization, but it did once save people on a large scale in a prehistoric age. Today I’m spreading it again widely during this final period of the kalpa’s end, so it’s just extremely precious."

excerpt 3:

"I’m not saying you have to learn my Falun Dafa, but I can say that what I’m doing is sharing some principles with you. If you want to cultivate you have to commit to one discipline, or else you won’t be able to cultivate one bit. Of course, if you don’t want to cultivate we’ll leave you alone. The Law is meant to be heard by people who really cultivate."

[qwik2learn]

TIME: Can qigong prevent death?
Li: In the West, one can reach paradise through cultivation practice after death. In the East, one can achieve a divine status through cultivation practice while one is still alive.

They forgot to ask: what supernatural powers Mr Li has?

Why is the East so different from the West in the opinion of Mr. Li? After readying Zhuan Falun several times, it was not at all obvious to me why enlightenment "discriminates" between East and West in this way.

I wonder what you think about this, OP? Is it something peculiar about the West that makes its people incapable of attaining enlightenment in this lifetime? Or is it something peculiar about the East that makes its people capable of attaining enlightenment in this lifetime? What exactly does Li say about the reason as to why this is so? Or is he vague on the details?

[EnergyGem]

TIME: Can qigong prevent death?
Li: In the West, one can reach paradise through cultivation practice after death. In the East, one can achieve a divine status through cultivation practice while one is still alive.

They forgot to ask: what supernatural powers Mr Li has?

Why is the East so different from the West in the opinion of Mr. Li? After readying Zhuan Falun several times, it was not at all obvious to me why enlightenment "discriminates" between East and West in this way.

I wonder what you think about this, OP? Is it something peculiar about the West that makes its people incapable of attaining enlightenment in this lifetime? Or is it something peculiar about the East that makes its people capable of attaining enlightenment in this lifetime? What exactly does Li say about the reason as to why this is so? Or is he vague on the details?

Good question Qwik2Learn. I did manage to find an excerpt from one of Mr Li Hongzhi's Buddha Law Lectures where he discusses the difference between Eastern and Western cultivation methods, it's rather quite interesting:

“Speaking of completing cultivation, it is known that Jesus said, "You can go to heaven if you have faith in me." It is said in Buddhism, "If one cultivates Buddhahood, he may go to the Paradise of Ultimate Bliss." Of course, they all put it very simply and did not stress that only through the actual cultivation practice can one go there. However, religion is also cultivation practice in essence. It is just that whether it was Buddha Sakyamuni or Jesus, they all saw the same fact, as the saying goes in the community of cultivators "Cultivation depends upon the individual himself, and the transformation of Gong is up to the master." Ordinary people did not know this either.


Ordinary people think, "By doing the exercise, I will be able to attain a certain amount of Gong." This is a joke in our view, and it is absolutely impossible.
Of course, if you want to practice cultivation, the master would need to be genuinely responsible to you and would install many of these energy mechanisms in your body. He would also plant many things like seeds in your body. Only then, will you be able to succeed in your cultivation practice. In addition, during the course of cultivation practice, the master must look after you, protect you, eliminate your karma, and help with the transformation of your Gong.  Only then will you be able to move up in cultivation practice.

Religions do not talk about cultivation practice. Why is that? Jesus knew, "If you have faith in me you will be able to move up in your cultivation practice."


Nowadays, one cannot practice cultivation in religions simply because of his inability to understand the real meaning of what he said. Many people think, "I believe in Jesus, and I will be able to go to heaven upon death." Please think about it. We want to go to heaven, but how do we get there?

You carry an ordinary person's mind with various sentimentalities and desires, your various attachments, the competitive mentality, as well as the show-off mentality.
There are just too many such bad attachments of ordinary people. If you were allowed to be there with Buddhas, you might compete with Buddhas or start a fight because your ordinary human mind has not been given up. If you find a Bodhisattva so beautiful, you may develop some evil thoughts.

Can this be allowed? Of course it won't be allowed. Thus, you will have to give up these attachments and the filth as well as bad thoughts in ordinary human society. Only then can you ascend to such a realm. One is able to go there by cultivation or by faith. However, following confessions, one should not repeat the mistake. In this way, one will become better and better. Only after reaching the standard of a deity, can one go to heaven.

This is in fact cultivation practice. Some people say, "If I believe in Jesus, I will be able to go to heaven." I say that you won't. Why not? It is because people nowadays do not understand the true meaning of what Jesus said. Jesus is at the level of Tathagata and also an enlightened being in the realm of Buddha. Ordinary people cannot understand the implications of what he said.

Only when you constantly practice cultivation by following his method, can you gradually comprehend the implications of what he said. For instance, Jesus said, "If you have faith in me, you will be able to go to heaven." In fact, you must follow the principles that he taught you to be a good person.

Only then do you genuinely have faith in him and can you go to heaven. Otherwise, why did he say that much?! While making confessions, you may find yourself doing it well and in the right mood. However, once you step outside the door of the church, you continue to behave at your own will and may become even worse than an ordinary person. How can you go to heaven? Your mind has not been elevated at all. As Jesus put it, "If you have faith in me, you can go to heaven." That means if you have faith in him, you must follow what he said, that is genuine faith, isn't it? This principle is also true in other religions.

What Buddha Sakyamuni said was later compiled and written down as scriptures. Still later, people began to regard how much one reads the scriptures and how much Buddhist knowledge one masters as cultivation practice.

In fact, there were no scriptures at all when Buddha Sakyamuni was around.
The scriptures were only systematically compiled five hundred years later, and they had already departed from what Buddha Sakyamuni had said during his time. However, at that time people were only expected to know so much, and knowing too much would be improper.

So, what happened was inevitable.  In his later years, Buddha Sakyamuni finally said, "I have not taught any Fa in my lifetime." Buddha Sakyamuni said this because he indeed did not teach the Fa of this universe, nor did he mention the manifestation of this characteristic of Zhen-Shan-Ren in ordinary human society or at his level of Tathagata.

He indeed did not teach it! What was it that Buddha Tathagata taught then? What he taught was what he had been enlightened to during the cultivation practice in his previous lifetimes, some situations of cultivation practice in his previous reincarnations, cultivation practice stories as well as his understanding of some specific manifestation of the Fa. As the scriptures were sorted out on and off, they are not systematic either.  Then, why did people later on regard what Buddha Sakyamuni said as the Buddha Fa? On the one hand, this is the human understanding.

On the other hand, it is because Sakyamuni is a Buddha. Accordingly, what he said bears the Buddha nature. Teachings bearing the Buddha nature will thus be a layer of the Buddha principles to mankind, which is then regarded as the Buddha Fa. However, he indeed did not systematically teach the principles of cultivation practice, the characteristic of the universe, nor did he explain why one could ascend to higher levels, etc. Indeed, he did not make it public!”

[qwik2learn]

Hi EnergyGem,

"Cultivation depends upon the individual himself, and the transformation of Gong is up to the master."

It is good that you have quoted this. I wonder about the basis of this statement. Spiritual development is up to the master? Is that basically what is being said?

I have to disagree with Mr. Li, one does not need to have a master to become enlightened (in this lifetime), in my opinion. Do practitioners realize that they are being asked to believe that Master Li is their savior?

And what about the practitioners who I met in the USA? Since they are not "in the East", was their belief in attaining enlightenment in this lifetime mistaken?

[EnergyGem]

Hi EnergyGem,

"Cultivation depends upon the individual himself, and the transformation of Gong is up to the master."

It is good that you have quoted this. I wonder about the basis of this statement. Spiritual development is up to the master? Is that basically what is being said?

I have to disagree with Mr. Li, one does not need to have a master to become enlightened (in this lifetime), in my opinion. Do practitioners realize that they are being asked to believe that Master Li is their savior?

And what about the practitioners who I met in the USA? Since they are not "in the East", was their belief in attaining enlightenment in this lifetime mistaken?

In terms of this point (needing a master for spiritual development) I found something interesting Mr Li Hongzhi said in his book Zhuan Falun Volume 2 in which he speaks about something called 'In the Dao without Cultivating the Dao'. It touches on some of the questions you have raised about needing a Master and that some people are developing spiritually without even knowing about it and without ever having met a Master:

http://en.falundafa.org/eng/html/zfl2/zfl2.htm#6