Buying land/real state with Bitcoin

[thejaytiesto]

It is often argued how bitcoin cannot be taxed because it would be an insane task for the IRS to trace back every single transaction accurately to the people that own those bitcoins. It's just imply not possible, and in the future as Confidential Transactions, Schnorr Signatures, Mimblewimble etc get activated thanks to segwit (once we defeat the government-paid anti-segwit trolls) it will be pretty much a waste of time.

But implying that you are excempt of tax just because of that is in my book delusional. If you want to buy land with bitcoin, you cannot escape taxes, not even a car.

My question is, how would you go about it? I have a very modest amount of BTC so I wish I had those problems, but im just wondering, if you had enough BTC to buy a nice penthouse, how would you go about it? I don't see any other way out but to calculate how much the penthouse costs + taxes and cash out the BTC in some exchange (since localbitcoins is not going to have enough volume to do that, and even if you did it throught localbitcoins, it would need to be in real life in exchange of cash, and you't but real state with cash, maybe you can get away with a car, but not real state or land, and physical cash will not even exist in the future.

Anyway, my point is, you can't escape the government when it comes to important purchases.

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[Carlton Banks]

What would you do if armed men arrived at your house, demanding money under threat of kidnapping you, or the threat of simply stealing the amount of money they would like?

[chesatochi]

When you want to purchase a home, you need to pay the welcome tax, the notary and all the feed that come with it. The best should simply convert the bitcoins you have into fiat and pay the tax associated with that income. Then pay a cash down into your house and borrow the rest with your bank.

If you are rich, you could buy it cash with your bitcoins

[franky1]

put the deed in the name of a trust.
make sure you are not the beneficiary of the trust. but another trust is the beneficiary.
you then set yourself up as just an administrator of both trusts and take a fee for services rendered from the trust.

oh and make sure the bank accounts are set up under a foundation too. that way the fiat can flow without it evaporating. and because the funds dont legally belong to you no one will knock at your door

its how the fat cats get away with not paying tax.

[BillyBobZorton]

What would you do if armed men arrived at your house, demanding money under threat of kidnapping you, or the threat of simply stealing the amount of money they would like?

I don't get it. What does that question have to do with OP's question? You are saying that police are like thieves? That is very nice but it's not going to work. If government finds out that you didn't report your house/land, as McGregor would say... "you are going to do nothing".

put the deed in the name of a trust.
make sure you are not the beneficiary of the trust. but another trust is the beneficiary.
you then set yourself up as just an administrator of both trusts and take a fee for services rendered from the trust.

oh and make sure the bank accounts are set up under a foundation too. that way the fiat can flow without it evaporating. and because the funds dont legally belong to you no one will knock at your door

its how the fat cats get away with not paying tax.

That method must have some risks otherwise everyone would be doing it. Why only "fat cats"? Is it expensive to set one of those foundations or whatever? Unfortnately im far from a fat cat... im a skinny cat looking for some food.

[Zadicar]

I dont think so that you could able to evade tax when you tend to buy a land/real state with bitcoin because you will definitely be charged for sure if you tend to buy one.Why would bother to use of bitcoin on purchasing those things?Its jsut simple convert your bitcoin to local fiat currency then buy and you should accept the fees and other related payments.

[franky1]

Is it expensive to set one of those foundations or whatever? Unfortnately im far from a fat cat... im a skinny cat looking for some food.

if it were just $50 then yea everyone would be doing it.

its not something you do just to protect your second hand car, LCD tv and apple ipad.. but if you have a new car or a house its more worth it.

see.. this UK Duke got away with £0 tax on £9billion inheritance
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions

[thejaytiesto]

What would you do if armed men arrived at your house, demanding money under threat of kidnapping you, or the threat of simply stealing the amount of money they would like?

Government has the monopoly on force... there's nothing you can do if they come and demand explainations as to where the money that you used to buy the real state came from. What would you do?

When you want to purchase a home, you need to pay the welcome tax, the notary and all the feed that come with it. The best should simply convert the bitcoins you have into fiat and pay the tax associated with that income. Then pay a cash down into your house and borrow the rest with your bank.

If you are rich, you could buy it cash with your bitcoins

Like I said before im not rich, and even if I was rich, it would be impossible to get not even $100k in cash, nobody in Localbitcoins is going to meet for such a big amount, it's just crazy, and a penthouse is usually half a million, it's just not going to happen. There's no way out other than converting your bitcoins to fiat and paying taxes.

put the deed in the name of a trust.
make sure you are not the beneficiary of the trust. but another trust is the beneficiary.
you then set yourself up as just an administrator of both trusts and take a fee for services rendered from the trust.

oh and make sure the bank accounts are set up under a foundation too. that way the fiat can flow without it evaporating. and because the funds dont legally belong to you no one will knock at your door

its how the fat cats get away with not paying tax.

To be honest I have no idea how any of that works. How are you going to open a foundation out of nowhere? and you mean a trust fund? I wish I could understand all that economy jargon... honestly I would be scared to do that, im sure they can end up finding out you are fucking with them.

[Carlton Banks]

What would you do if armed men arrived at your house, demanding money under threat of kidnapping you, or the threat of simply stealing the amount of money they would like?

Government has the monopoly on force... there's nothing you can do if they come and demand explainations as to where the money that you used to buy the real state came from. What would you do?

I would do the smartest thing I could think of.

[marseille]

Real estate transactions always go through escrows, and seller wants fiat not bitcoin. So if escrow or seller agent wants the deal, he can simply open a coinbase account, transfer money to USD, then send to escrow. This is the same as people use bitcoin to buy cars, the seller gets USD, bitcoin is just an intermediate step.

[digaran]

Reason why bitcoin can not be controlled by governments is because of it being digital in nature and not relying on anything physical except miners.
You really can't buy anything with bitcoin without paying taxes, actually you'll have to pay tax no matter what currency or method you are using and anything you do to avoid paying tax is considered illegal.
So please stop thinking of bitcoin as a magical instrument .    

[electronicash]

put the deed in the name of a trust.
make sure you are not the beneficiary of the trust. but another trust is the beneficiary.
you then set yourself up as just an administrator of both trusts and take a fee for services rendered from the trust.

oh and make sure the bank accounts are set up under a foundation too. that way the fiat can flow without it evaporating. and because the funds dont legally belong to you no one will knock at your door

its how the fat cats get away with not paying tax.

Once they see its worth finding out what you've been up to the government may closely watch you later. I'm no expert but i think foundations do still have to keep a book keeper and they may have to check those balances until they find out.

why can't we just be law abiding citizen and give the government what belongs to the government.

[n691309]

Ok we are asking this for legal reason and what comes in my mind is if I purchase a small land for example 30 BTC or a small apartment, I don't have to declare it how I bought or should I? I know banks like to show them the transaction or something similar but I isn't reasonable?

[Sex Video Chat VKcams.com]

I have a very modest amount of BTC

Hi, here is for You:
32,0 m2
2500,00 € + 20% VAT
Kohtla Jarve (Estonia)
http://www.prima.ee/ru/realty/type/apartment/4105/

39,4 m2
4000,00 € + 20% VAT
google.com/maps/
http://www.prima.ee/ru/realty/type/apartment/4184/

[asuryan180]

I don't think it's a good idea because the whole idea with BTC is so that you can't be tracked but when it comes to real estate deals there are legal processes which can't be neglected and you have to actually be there on the deal itself,It's risky if you do it over the Internet because there's a high probability there will be some things which will be not understood between the buyer and the seller which isn't good.

[audaciousbeing]

I think the issue if Bitcoin not taxed is being over exaggerated and needs proper explanation to get it that Bitcoin is totally immune from taxes. The only scenerio we will have that as OP has painted is if the seller of the penthouse is ready to accept Bitcoin and nothing else. Also, there is need to also say that a particular income can be exposed to several type of tax and it can be only one using Bitcoin one can be able to avoid.

[n691309]

I don't think it's a good idea because the whole idea with BTC is so that you can't be tracked but when it comes to real estate deals there are legal processes which can't be neglected and you have to actually be there on the deal itself,It's risky if you do it over the Internet because there's a high probability there will be some things which will be not understood between the buyer and the seller which isn't good.

I don't think is too much risky as long as the cash is delivered and the stuff is transferred to the buyer, but I prefer to deal in person, but even though the payment can be made in cryptocurrencies and the legal institutions can't see/find where the deal was made and I don't think we have to declare how we bought the parcel/apartment.

[vannaria]

I have a very modest amount of BTC

Hi, here is for You:
32,0 m2
2500,00 € + 20% VAT
Kohtla Jarve (Estonia)
http://www.prima.ee/ru/realty/type/apartment/4105/

39,4 m2
4000,00 € + 20% VAT
google.com/maps/
http://www.prima.ee/ru/realty/type/apartment/4184/

wow really cheaper compared with the rest of european union. where is the "trick"? a lot of expense for renew electric plants or whatever?
I guess is really hard to rent or find people for short staying or I am wrong?

[digaran]

put the deed in the name of a trust.
make sure you are not the beneficiary of the trust. but another trust is the beneficiary.
you then set yourself up as just an administrator of both trusts and take a fee for services rendered from the trust.

oh and make sure the bank accounts are set up under a foundation too. that way the fiat can flow without it evaporating. and because the funds dont legally belong to you no one will knock at your door

its how the fat cats get away with not paying tax.

Once they see its worth finding out what you've been up to the government may closely watch you later. I'm no expert but i think foundations do still have to keep a book keeper and they may have to check those balances until they find out.

why can't we just be law abiding citizen and give the government what belongs to the government.

Nothing belongs to government but they take it as their own like it's their blood right, governments around the world occupy lands and take control over natural resources in order to build armies and arm their military with advanced technology and participate in pissing contest against each other, you know how much money being spent on defensive and offensive military operations and weapons? billions and billions of dollars each year but for what reason other than their own hidden agendas and benefits and not nations?
What we need is for companies and their owners to man up and start accepting bitcoin as currency in their businesses to lose free from the prison of fiat.

[franky1]

ways to avoid tax whether its fiat or any other currency
1. never "live" in the same country for more than a few months of the year - you will learn why people have holiday homes, winter cabins and timeshares know this trick, david beckham (UK football/soccer) done this for years.

2. financial trusts - if you dont have yourself as a beneficiary and instead you set up a couple shell companies as trustee's and then you take a fee as an administrator and travel/accommodation expenses as a trustee.. then whats inside the trust technically doesnt belong to you, but you can as both the administrator and trustee, grant payment to yourself.

3. foundations - ever watch them posh people who arrange large banquets in the name of a foundation, or why the linux, hyperledger, etc all used foundation status.. (clinton foundation.. but shhh dont mention the clinton foundation)

4. offshore business.. this is a commercial method that mixed points 1 and 2, but done so using commercial entities rather than personal entities

5. not have funds available to be frozen by probate. by giving 'gifts' to relatives before you die thus having nothing in your 'estate' to be taxed