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Author Topic: Why are people complaining about manipulation?  (Read 1671 times)
Peleus
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April 12, 2013, 12:12:13 AM
 #1

Seriously, it's a free market.

To begin with, I'm not even convinced that there is huge manipulation going on. It's just a way for many around here to justify getting burnt and being wrong about the growth of bitcoin this week. If anything bad happens suddenly it's a conspiracy, banker manipulation, secret DDoS attacks rather than simply bitcoin went up, was over priced, corrected itself.

But let's say for argument sake there was some form of manipulation, someone wanted to spark 'panic selling' or whatever your flavour of conspiracy is... so what?

No one forces you to buy, no one forces you to sell. If you follow the heard in a crash then you can't blame others for being 'manipulated', you made the conscious decision to do the same thing. Bitcoin as a currency is still fine thanks to services like Bitpay who insulate merchants from the volatility. Why do we need any protections at all? Why are people suddenly trying to suggest regulation, simply because they got burnt?
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Alonzo Ewing
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April 12, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
 #2

What does "manipulation" even mean?

If I own 10,000 bitcoins and sell 5000 bitcoins at once in order to drop the price quickly in order to try to start a cascade downward, is that manipulation?

If I create  DDOS attacks in order to cause a panic, is that manipulation?

What else is manipulation?

 
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April 12, 2013, 12:32:48 AM
 #3

Those who complain about manipulation are the ones that are easily manipulated.

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April 12, 2013, 12:43:44 AM
 #4

Lol I remember back when bitcoin first spiked to $30. Over a year ago and people where
All panic buying to get in on the profits. Then a scare came and everyone started panic selling.
It rose again and the same people bought as it went up to get back on and recoup losses but it dropped again and try panic sold for very cheep. Those who sat out there investment a normal investment period of 12 months now have won. The panic sellers all lost badly. The pannic merchants are the people manipulating
Their own misfortune.
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April 12, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
 #5

the reason they are complaining is because with the exchanges down or shakey, they have nothing better to do.
superduh
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April 12, 2013, 01:30:35 AM
 #6

beacuse the exchange is being manipulated too easily.
the .01 transactions need to stop
they need to make it so people can't put in orders they can't fulfill either
so many things wrong. it is a manipulated market by all means

ok
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April 12, 2013, 01:36:51 AM
 #7

beacuse the exchange is being manipulated too easily.
the .01 transactions need to stop
they need to make it so people can't put in orders they can't fulfill either
so many things wrong. it is a manipulated market by all means
This is exactly what they are working on. People forget that bitcoin is still new and so are the trading sites like
Mtgox. People that are sitting back and complaining could be actively adding to the community
By developing bitcoin factualitys but they never do.
Bitcoinm
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April 12, 2013, 01:54:03 AM
 #8

People keep complaining about it but have no idea how anyone would even perform manipulations.
mr-sk
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April 12, 2013, 01:58:14 AM
 #9

beacuse the exchange is being manipulated too easily.
the .01 transactions need to stop
they need to make it so people can't put in orders they can't fulfill either
so many things wrong. it is a manipulated market by all means
This is exactly what they are working on. People forget that bitcoin is still new and so are the trading sites like
Mtgox. People that are sitting back and complaining could be actively adding to the community
By developing bitcoin factualitys but they never do.

New? Really ... in terms of tech it's not really "new" anymore. I've been trading since 2011 and the exchanges suck. All of them. There are so many things they need to improve upon that could strengthen bitcoin as more than just a "fad". These exchanges (tradehill 1.0 and 2.0 for example) are just really, really bad exchange implementations ontop of OK business models.

Oh, and on top of that, this market trades 24/7 which allows plenty of time to make incremental improvements.

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aantonop
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April 12, 2013, 02:03:59 AM
 #10

Bullshit. It's not manipulation, it's incompetence people are complaining about.

Plenty of knowledgeable people are discussing the very serious failings of MTGOX and their trading engine that are jeopardizing the bitcoin currency because of continued incompetence and mismanagement.

I actually made money during the panic. Yet, I'm complaining because MTGOX represents a systemic risk and people need to be warned away to other exchanges, to diversify.

Not everyone complaining has sour grapes, not everyone complaining is ignorant about the issues. Plenty of us have legitimate comments and legitimate opinions on mtgox's incompetence.



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mr-sk
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April 12, 2013, 02:08:52 AM
 #11

Bullshit. It's not manipulation, it's incompetence people are complaining about.

Plenty of knowledgeable people are discussing the very serious failings of MTGOX and their trading engine that are jeopardizing the bitcoin currency because of continued incompetence and mismanagement.

I actually made money during the panic. Yet, I'm complaining because MTGOX represents a systemic risk and people need to be warned away to other exchanges, to diversify.

Not everyone complaining has sour grapes, not everyone complaining is ignorant about the issues. Plenty of us have legitimate comments and legitimate opinions on mtgox's incompetence.




Exactly.

I remember when I left BTC in 2011. Wasn't because of the ~$20 drop, it was because this forum (is still) full of children, gamblers and faux-programmers.

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April 12, 2013, 03:03:40 AM
 #12

I wasn't so much complaining as pointing out the way that connected people like Alex Jones seemed to be informed of the sell-off before it happens, and then there is the whole "bitcoin is a failure" talking points because of the volatility.

Is it annoying to me that people buy that shtick?   Kinda.

Do I think it matters as far as the long term success of bitcoin?   Not at all.

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April 12, 2013, 05:21:37 AM
 #13

I'm not complaining.

It is all in the marketing.

Perspective #1-

Bitcoin crashes, omfg it was a bubble the sky is falling, sell, panic, move back into my mother's basement!!!


Perspective #2

Bitcoin SALE going on right now, we're slashing prices so low they are INSANE!!! Savings as much as 60% off, you won't find a better deal anywhere, but an offer this good is just too good to last, so call now and take advantage of this great deal while supplies last!!!



I went to the sale. Got a great deal too!!

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Nesetalis
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April 12, 2013, 05:27:49 AM
 #14

Good call Superdork.
number 2 is exactly how I saw it.
I had bids all the way down to 40$ or so, woke up this morning and saw EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM fulfilled..
I was estatic... saw that the price had gotten down to around 25$ on virwox.. and was sad I hadn't put up any bids lower.. Tongue But seriously this is a fucking sale!
Even if it drops to < 10$ for a few months i'll be happy. I have more bitcoins than I did last month, I have more USD than I did last month.

ZOMG Moo!
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April 12, 2013, 05:29:23 AM
 #15

beacuse the exchange is being manipulated too easily.
the .01 transactions need to stop
they need to make it so people can't put in orders they can't fulfill either
so many things wrong. it is a manipulated market by all means
This is exactly what they are working on. People forget that bitcoin is still new and so are the trading sites like
Mtgox. People that are sitting back and complaining could be actively adding to the community
By developing bitcoin factualitys but they never do.

New? Really ... in terms of tech it's not really "new" anymore. I've been trading since 2011 and the exchanges suck. All of them. There are so many things they need to improve upon that could strengthen bitcoin as more than just a "fad". These exchanges (tradehill 1.0 and 2.0 for example) are just really, really bad exchange implementations ontop of OK business models.

Oh, and on top of that, this market trades 24/7 which allows plenty of time to make incremental improvements.

Yeah Brand new mate. Bitcoin is only 4 years old, we are all at the beginning of a new age of tech money and all the site's who have made the effort now unlike you are trying to design and create our future. If you think they are rubbish then don't use them. go and build something better and add to bitcoin, then you will have people like you complaining to you about how you haven't done it right.
no offense but just don't sit back and sulk.  
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April 12, 2013, 05:34:30 AM
 #16

Agreed Nesetalis- if you are a believer in bitcoin as something other than a get rich quick scheme, then this is nothing more then a way to benefit from morons who got in bitcoin for all the wrong reasons.

 
I got myself a HUGE stack of litecoins (relative to my holdings) at a great rate today, sales are great!!



I did realize today that I need to keep more currency in an exchange so that I can capitalize better. Now I know, but I managed a bitinstant purchase and timed it pretty well.

SD

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April 12, 2013, 06:22:09 AM
 #17

People keep complaining about it but have no idea how anyone would even perform manipulations.

i have a pretty sound idea, after pouring over the blockchain for a couple hours along with what we all saw.

coordinated ddos attacks are just a coincidence i guess.

this is a replay of what happens to futures all the time.

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