fine paypal is bad. then could you please advise while electronic payment is go

[Coincrazy]

fine paypal is bad. then could you please advise while electronic payment is  good ?

there is an expectant (probably international ) community waiting to buy and sell bitcoins

as of now the exchanges are broken / or / generally difficult to get to

So payment is becomming the hurdle

there is money to be made IF the payment hurdle is crossed

NOT all buyers are scammers

I am NOT a scammer

I only hope NOT all payment methods are inefficient

[Mike Christ]

I have bad news.

They all are.  The only truly secure, non-chargeback method to funding any account takes days.  Why?  Because it does.  No reason.  It's intentionally inefficient; fiat is hard to move around.  Why?  Just because.  All they're doing is moving numbers from system A to system B.  But that's the way it goes.  Fiat is setup this way.  Probably for a reason unrelated to Bitcoin.  But it affects it all the same.

[LeTanque]

buy locally face to face. No wait. No fees. No brainer.

[crazyfingers]

Yes, it seems like a real problem, I've used a combination of coinbase and bitinstant to get my btc, but that isn't anywhere near good enough for mass adoption. Coinbase is pretty easy to use but it takes days and they're always sold out. Bitinstant worked for me but I hear they've been having big growing pains as well.

I've read it is relatively easy to get money into Mt. Gox and that is why they got so big. BTC-e it is apparently quite difficult and expensive to get cash in.

What's that site where you can deposit cash through a bank of america...bit floor? All these options are in the U.S. though, no doubt it's even more difficult elsewhere.

I'm confident things will get easier though, there's too much money at stake for them not to.

[Coincrazy]

I am quite sure there are other business where they hate chargebacks

example the simple example of selling inner garments

buys buys, uses inners, then claims they are bad and claims charge back

of course honest seller can't get back used ones and sell them to some one else

so will many electronic items that have warranty seals, so with software that has to be registered to a user and so on

I am sure there has to be non repudiable payments

recently some one on this / sub forum / sister forum said they use netteller; i have *not* used netteller; any one know anything about netteller ?

please explore

just amoung the 1000s of readers here there is a market waiting



regards

[TimJBenham]

I have bad news.

They all are.  The only truly secure, non-chargeback method to funding any account takes days.  Why?  Because it does.  No reason.  It's intentionally inefficient; fiat is hard to move around.  Why?  Just because.  All they're doing is moving numbers from system A to system B.  But that's the way it goes.  Fiat is setup this way.  Probably for a reason unrelated to Bitcoin.  But it affects it all the same.

I've moved fiat internationally in under 3 hours (Australia to Slovenia). A SWIFT transfer is faster than domestic, funnily enough.

The inefficiency is probably seen as necessary to support the Banks' fraud guarantees. Making transfers slow gives them more chance to catch flight money.

[Coincrazy]

I have bad news.

They all are.  The only truly secure, non-chargeback method to funding any account takes days.  Why?  Because it does.  No reason.  It's intentionally inefficient; fiat is hard to move around.  Why?  Just because.  All they're doing is moving numbers from system A to system B.  But that's the way it goes.  Fiat is setup this way.  Probably for a reason unrelated to Bitcoin.  But it affects it all the same.

I've moved fiat internationally in under 3 hours (Australia to Slovenia). A SWIFT transfer is faster than domestic, funnily enough.

The inefficiency is probably seen as necessary to support the Banks' fraud guarantees. Making transfers slow gives them more chance to catch flight money.

Tim

You seem to be well informed in this area

(a) What is the best way [best = in speed, best = in low cost] to transfer money from some one in say Australia to USA or Japan where most of these exchanges are in operation

(b) if members here are desirous of buying / selling directly peer to peer (of course with inherent risks, so probably in small / manageable quantities) , what is the best way to transfer money peer to peer ? again [best = in speed, best = in low cost]


TIA

[mco65]

I don't think Paypal is a bad outlet for purchasing BTC.  You just have to find someone willing to sell BTC to you via Paypal. The risk is in selling BTC via paypal, not buying.

An alternative to Paypal would be Dwolla. Dwolla is basically the same as paypal without the stigma.. at least for now.

[Coincrazy]

I don't think Paypal is a bad outlet for purchasing BTC.  You just have to find someone willing to sell BTC to you via Paypal. The risk is in selling BTC via paypal, not buying.

An alternative to Paypal would be Dwolla. Dwolla is basically the same as paypal without the stigma.. at least for now.

you mean I should henceforth scream "...Dwolla .... Dwolla...."  when some one calls me the crafty , old economy, electronic payments scammer ?  :-)

Ok....

Let me Dwolla hence forth !!

[kslavik]

Dwolla is good as long as you get verified with them and wait for 30 days. Once you are verified you can transfer $ to CampBx (not much wait) but very low volume. You can also transfer $ to MtGox, but you need to be verified with MtGox as well.

it cost a flat fee of $0.25 to transfer any amount by Dwolla.

[nwbitcoin]

The exchanges are not dead - onnly the biggest one - all the other exchanges like BTC-e, Vircurex etc are working fine - or is that actually the biggest problem here that people only buy from the biggest?

[Coincrazy]

Dwolla is good as long as you get verified with them and wait for 30 days. Once you are verified you can transfer $ to CampBx (not much wait) but very low volume. You can also transfer $ to MtGox, but you need to be verified with with MtGox as well.

it cost flat fee of $0.25 to transfer any amount by Dwolla.

that sounds VERY good actually ...VERY

[TimJBenham]

(a) What is the best way [best = in speed, best = in low cost] to transfer money from some one in say Australia to USA or Japan where most of these exchanges are in operation

Bitcoin. If you need to transfer fiat then SWIFT costs about $22 at most major banks here. The "under three hours" was probably lucky. I suspect CBA does consumer international wires once a day and I just happened to lodge mine just before the 4:30pm cut-off. Mostly I expect it arrives in the evening of the day you sent it. There are some foreign exchange dealers such as Xylo that are cheaper (eg $5 if nothing goes wrong) and just as fast but a bit complicated to set up and use.

(b) if members here are desirous of buying / selling directly peer to peer (of course with inherent risks, so probably in small / manageable quantities) , what is the best way to transfer money peer to peer ? again [best = in speed, best = in low cost]

I don't know much about p2p. Paypal is cheap (pretend it is a gift) and fast.

[slakeco]

From my experience, its hand's down dwolla.

If you want to keep your fiat in digital form so you can use it to buy cryptocurrency. I think everyone should take a look at it, assuming you understand how it works and you have a checking/savings account at a bank somewhere.

Getting your account setup and verified takes a few days, but its PayPalesque in terms of ease of use. They send you a couple micro-deposits .01 - .09, and when you receive them, you go to the website and enter the amounts to complete verification process. Then you're ready to start sending money from your bank account to your dwolla account.  I also dig the PIN number system at every transaction confirmation page for added account security. If you get frisky, you can check out some of the more advanced features like auto-withdrawal and the Hub Page, where you can customize your own payment/checkout page, so that you can request payment via dwolla. It'd look something like dwolla/com/hub/paymehere. Not too relevant for bitcoin, but you can also send recurring payments if you ever found the need.

I've been using them as a preferred payment method for buying coins for quite a while with no dissatisfaction whatsoever. I've referred a bunch of friends to dwolla via their email invitation system. It gave me and each of my buddies I invited  $10 in transaction fee credits, which was basically our first 40x transactions free. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me. Feel free to PM me for an invite if you're interested.

Its typical ACH transfer times for getting your money from the bank to dwolla and vice versa. They charge us practically nothing and make their profits by holding our money in their accounts and taking their time while moving the money around. If you know how to plan, you can work around the 3-4 days of transit time without issue.

[TimJBenham]

AFAIK dwolla is US-only and the OP is seeking solutions that work in Australia.

[Coincrazy]

AFAIK dwolla is US-only and the OP is seeking solutions that work in Australia.

Outside go USA if I may say.....

Thanks