The Bitcoin has 'jumped the shark'

[Wind_FURY]

Why not activate Segwit and get more transactions in per block? LN will be years more away if Segwit does not get activated soon. Politics is what's causing this "stalemate". But have no fear, sooner or later somebody has to give way and do a selfless act for the good Bitcoin.

[franky1]

Why not activate Segwit and get more transactions in per block? LN will be years more away if Segwit does not get activated soon. Politics is what's causing this "stalemate". But have no fear, sooner or later somebody has to give way and do a selfless act for the good Bitcoin.

because segwit even after activation is not a promise/guarantee of more transactions. even with 100% utility only expect 7tx/s the same expectation as bitcoin had 2009-2013

because LN can function now, the whole malleation war cry is empty.. due to multisig requiring 2 signatures meaning some malicious person cannot double spend against the other because both sides need to sign. what gets broadcast into a block is accepted by both sides.

also LN is not the end solution for scaling. its just a service on the side. not all bitcoin users will see advantage/need for LN.

[Rocarlos]

Yes, Bitcoin will hit 2,000$ at the end of this year. I'm a very positive person about bitcoin even though now it's only 900$ but I believe it will rise up highly with the rumor of bitcoin banning from china.

[pooya87]

Sure, IF bitcoin was being used as a currency, this might be a valid argument--but it still wouldn't have jumped the shark.  But it's not a great currency.  It's a great investment and a decent store of value.  For those two things it matters a hell of a lot less what the network fees are.  If you buy stocks, you end up paying a lot more than $0.40 to buy any amount.  That's how I see it anyway.

it is a currency and it should be a currency if we want to see higher prices, otherwise get comfortable with more volatility and each year going down to 200 and up again and then back....
bitcoin has never supposed to be an investment only, even satoshi in the white paper calls it digital cash, because it is supposed to be money and if we continue down this path of fighting over paying more fees we are harming bitcoin.

[qiwoman2]

I doubt bitcoin will be over unless we have a third world war and there are no longer computers and the internet. As long as these are around even higher fees won't make savers and investors shy away, but it might hit the large consumer base using bitcoin as a real currency, buying and selling stuff.

[Wendigo]

That moment when optimal fees suggested by the wallet were used and the transaction is still not confirmed more than 30 minutes later. Should have just used my fucking debit card yo 

[Xester]

Higher fees is very disappointing. Sooner or later bitcoin users will return to the banks once again. I was right in my prediction that bitcoin is not a revolution against the corrupt and unfair banking system but rather an another form of enslaving people with higher fees. But even though the fees is higher, I still love bitcoins because it provides me more income much higher than my fiat salary monthly. 

[thejaytiesto]

The funny thing is, same people complaining about fees and lack of blocksize increase are anti segwit which raises the blocksize to 2mb+ while fixing things that are needed for the future in order to make bitcoin more private, plus add better support for lightning network and sidechains. Only people against segwit are either idiots or government paid trolls. There will never be a blocksize increase without segwit so your choice.

[manselr]

Sure, IF bitcoin was being used as a currency, this might be a valid argument--but it still wouldn't have jumped the shark.  But it's not a great currency.  It's a great investment and a decent store of value.  For those two things it matters a hell of a lot less what the network fees are.  If you buy stocks, you end up paying a lot more than $0.40 to buy any amount.  That's how I see it anyway.

it is a currency and it should be a currency if we want to see higher prices, otherwise get comfortable with more volatility and each year going down to 200 and up again and then back....
bitcoin has never supposed to be an investment only, even satoshi in the white paper calls it digital cash, because it is supposed to be money and if we continue down this path of fighting over paying more fees we are harming bitcoin.

Indeed, whitepaper says digital CASH. Bitcoin can NEVER be cash with big blocks, because big blocks centralize the network by making the nodes harder to run, it will eventually end up in a situation where nodes are only run by server farms = bitcoin is dead as a decentralized censorship resistant tool aka cash. Not to mention SegWit adds support for Schnorr sigs and other cash-friendly features. So we have people complaining about lack of block increase and about SegWit, when being pro-big blocks and anti-SegWit is exactly what being anti-cash means.

[coolcoinz]

Sure, IF bitcoin was being used as a currency, this might be a valid argument--but it still wouldn't have jumped the shark.  But it's not a great currency.  It's a great investment and a decent store of value.  For those two things it matters a hell of a lot less what the network fees are.  If you buy stocks, you end up paying a lot more than $0.40 to buy any amount.  That's how I see it anyway.

That's weird but true. If Bitcoin is nothing more than a speculators toy then it's massively successful. You're one of those "glass half full" kind of people, aren't you? LOL

He also mentioned a store of value. If I were made to choose now, I'd would prefer to have Bitcoins than any currency, especially Euro. Bitcoin is unstable, but trouble in the euro land will undoubtedly bring investors in. People want to leave some doors open, they still are paid in fiat and want to keep using it, but they also want some Bitcoins and gold/silver just in case.

U$ Dollar is the place to be for the next few years,

Chinese will cash out of BTC to prop up the Yuan trying to compete with the ever soaring U$ Dollar.
The recent BTC dump was just the beginning.
We are looking at least 4 years of this new environment, maybe 8 years, if Trump is reelected.
http://in.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-bitcoin-idINKBN14P1ID


 

FYI:
Simple Fix to BTC Fee problem, use Altcoins instead.
Litecoin & Dogecoin are both PoW and both dominated by the China, just like BTC,
LTC & Doge are faster and cheaper to send.

A member of Trump's government is a Bitcoin enthusiast, if this makes people dump BTC, what would make them buy in your opinion?
LTC? Really? Ltc has been dying for a long time now. There's no coming back, LTC doesn't offer anything that would attract new investors.

[calkob]

Mean while over at the bitcoin obituaries library, "Stanley call the scribe, we have another, bitcoin is dead post to add to the list"   

[Senor.Bla]

Bitcoin was intended to be a new form of money and one that you could use on daily bases which includes many transactions for a very small fee. Today i do not see much of this. I see a storage of value and a place to invest, but i don not find it that exciting as the idea it once was.

[DGulari]

Bitcoin was intended to be a new form of money and one that you could use on daily bases which includes many transactions for a very small fee. Today i do not see much of this. I see a storage of value and a place to invest, but i don not find it that exciting as the idea it once was.

Yep, Satoshi wanted microtransactions.  But some idiot named Maxwell thinks the network is better when configured to serve the purpose he personally is interested in.  Maxwell thinks a settlement layer is the best mode.  He doesn't like the other modes.  Since Maxwell holds the commit access, he can push his SegWit and LN onto the network and call these 'updates' while and the same time telling everyone to go start their changes as a new fork.

SegWit is the alt.  Don't let Core tell you they are improving bitcoin.  They are building their alt right on top of the bitcoin protocol.  LN and SegWit are alts.  Just because 'Core' is behind them, don't get suckered into thinking that is bitcoin. 

Satoshi anticipated 8MB or bigger blocks and microtransactions.  Somehow, Maxwell become more powerful than Satoshi. 

[Wind_FURY]

That moment when optimal fees suggested by the wallet were used and the transaction is still not confirmed more than 30 minutes later. Should have just used my fucking debit card yo  

That is very true and this is maybe what the OP was thinking about. The advantages of Bitcoin as a regular payment network is beginning to weaken in a way. Maybe a decentralized and censorship resistant form of currency was not meant to be used for regular payments.

[densuj]

It is over folks.  The Bitcoin has now 'jumped the shark'.  

Because the transaction fee is now >.40USD, bitcoin transactions are more expensive than Visa swipe fees.  

Core has successfully forced a fee market of very expensive transactions by preventing others from increasing transaction capacity via larger blocks.  Satoshi wanted big blocks.  Yet, core has wrestled control and forced an unnecessary limit to block size thus creating their fee market.  All this with the idea of later providing relief via an off chain fee to go into their pockets.  Lightning is years away and fees are only going up from here.

Bitcoin is finished.  

Yes you are right  bitcoin transactions are more expensive than Visa swipe fees,
but i don't agree if bitcoins is finished, because the developers and the peoples whom care about bitcoins are making solution for this problem.
They are making solution with segwit although it is still not yet be activated by all of users bitcoins
It is mean bitcoin is not finished.

[Bitcoinpro]

if the sender and receiver both have an account in the same exchange the transfer fee is 0

[Kakmakr]

As long as person X can send any amount of money between different borders for less than $1 US, then Bitcoin has it's advantage over one aspect of the financial world. <Remittance services> Yes, VISA might be cheaper, but VISA is not a currency, the fiat being send is the currency.

So if you want to compare apples with apples, then you would use a service like Xapo for instance, where the off-chain transactions are FREE. < Fiat - VISA vs Bitcoin - Xapo >

[Factmine]

if the sender and receiver both have an account in the same exchange the transfer fee is 0

But will you trust exchanges with your bitcoin? Think about it, most of the super huge scams came from exchanges like Mt. Gox. Then you would probably think twice when you keep large amounts of bitcoins in these services. They indeed give you some leeway when sending bitcoins to co-members but there is a great chance that they can just run away with it since they have control over you bitcoins.

[Juggy777]

No no I don't feel Bitcoin is finished, it is about time the community comes together and makes a determined call how to end this high fees. We can't let Bitcoin go down the drain. One way would be to avoid the exchanges and I have been avoiding exchanges due to the past scams and also many had advised to stay away from the exchanges. There has to be other ways right? To fight this for good of Bitcoin??

[Bitcoinpro]

if the sender and receiver both have an account in the same exchange the transfer fee is 0

But will you trust exchanges with your bitcoin? Think about it, most of the super huge scams came from exchanges like Mt. Gox. Then you would probably think twice when you keep large amounts of bitcoins in these services. They indeed give you some leeway when sending bitcoins to co-members but there is a great chance that they can just run away with it since they have control over you bitcoins.

When the sum of money gets so large to require that level of

trust is required as said above the fee becomes less significant