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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 12:52:23 PM |
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setting a bottom and top USD value for Bitcoins? They put out a press release saying they were putting an unlimited buy wall of BTC at $60. They were also putting an unlimited sell at $70. Including users holdings, they easily have enough cash and Bitcoins. No one would sell for less than $60 on the other exchanges. No one would ever buy for more then $70 on the other exchanges. What would stop them from doing this?
Maybe they'd run out of Bitcoins. They could always just shift the price point to $70-$80. There's no way they'd run out of cash, they'd always have a steady flow of people buying at the bottom set price. Add in the delay in transferring funds and the ability to dip into account holder’s money (like banks do).
The only risk I see is everyone leaving the exchange. But I doubt people would want the volatility of the last few months and would embrace Mtgox (or a 3rd party) doing this. They guarantee the price of BTC at $60 and release BTC at $70 as demand requires. It would severely limit pumping/dumping, ddos attacks, manipulation. If they want more swings to keep the investment/trading side of BTC going they could go $50-$75. And if they did this, could anyone stop them? Would anyone want to?
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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zoolander
Member
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Activity: 75
Merit: 10
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April 12, 2013, 12:55:03 PM |
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Srly?
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 12:58:17 PM |
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Yes.  Srly?
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gimme_bottles
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April 12, 2013, 01:00:20 PM |
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if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:02:50 PM |
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Run out of cash? With account holdings they have what 10 million? 20 million? How many million would it take to cover all the people who want to cash out at $60 over the next month? Really think they'd end up with every bitcoin? I know lots of people who wouldn't sell at $100, let alone $60. What is going to convince people BTC is really worth $30 and go sell everything at $60? And never buy back in? Something would really convince the community that BTC is worth $30 when MtGox will keep buying at $60. There's people who think BTC will hit $500. $1000. What happens when it caps out? Any massive sell off just causes much less supply and they end up slowly selling it right back. They have enough holdings to survive any swing. People who use BTC as a currency will be loading money and buying daily as they do now. if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
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michaelmclees
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April 12, 2013, 01:04:13 PM |
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Honestly, I've always thought such a thing could be tried. If some entity set price targets that many people agreed to abide, it could work. But getting people to agree is the difficult part.
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gimme_bottles
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April 12, 2013, 01:08:17 PM |
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Run out of cash? With account holdings they have what 10 million? 20 million? How many million would it take to cover all the people who want to cash out at $60 over the next month? Really think they'd end up with every bitcoin? I know lots of people who wouldn't sell at $100, let alone $60. What is going to convince people BTC is really worth $30 and go sell everything at $60? And never buy back in? Something would really convince the community that BTC is worth $30 when MtGox will keep buying at $60. There's people who think BTC will hit $500. $1000. What happens when it caps out? Any massive sell off just causes much less supply and they end up slowly selling it right back. They have enough holdings to survive any swing. People who use BTC as a currency will be loading money and buying daily as they do now. if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
oops, i reread my statement and i admit it does not make much sense  but still, someone setting the price is quite opposite to the fundamentals of bitcoin, so i guess there won't be many around who support it |
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:11:13 PM |
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If the entity has the bitcoins and cash to back it up, do people even have to agree? The price was just at $260. It would take everyone saying "$60? CASH IT ALL OUT CYA!!!!". If MtGox and other exchanges never fall below $60 USD, what will convince people it's not actually worth $60? The price is just based on supply and demand. It has nothing to do with BTC adoption. The price didn't rise to 266 because Bitcoin was "doing well". People bought it up driving the price up then dumped it. The price was $12 in Feb, the entire community would now reject $60 as the lowest BTC will ever drop? Honestly, I've always thought such a thing could be tried. If some entity set price targets that many people agreed to abide, it could work. But getting people to agree is the difficult part.
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:13:16 PM |
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Run out of cash? With account holdings they have what 10 million? 20 million? How many million would it take to cover all the people who want to cash out at $60 over the next month? Really think they'd end up with every bitcoin? I know lots of people who wouldn't sell at $100, let alone $60. What is going to convince people BTC is really worth $30 and go sell everything at $60? And never buy back in? Something would really convince the community that BTC is worth $30 when MtGox will keep buying at $60. There's people who think BTC will hit $500. $1000. What happens when it caps out? Any massive sell off just causes much less supply and they end up slowly selling it right back. They have enough holdings to survive any swing. People who use BTC as a currency will be loading money and buying daily as they do now. if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
oops, i reread my statement and i admit it does not make much sense but still, someone setting the price is quite opposite to the fundamentals of bitcoin, so i guess there won't be many around who support it If MtGox said "$60 is the bottom, done.". I don't see people yelling "GTFO!" after the pump and dump that just went on. Don't people crave stability? |
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gimme_bottles
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April 12, 2013, 01:16:00 PM |
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Run out of cash? With account holdings they have what 10 million? 20 million? How many million would it take to cover all the people who want to cash out at $60 over the next month? Really think they'd end up with every bitcoin? I know lots of people who wouldn't sell at $100, let alone $60. What is going to convince people BTC is really worth $30 and go sell everything at $60? And never buy back in? Something would really convince the community that BTC is worth $30 when MtGox will keep buying at $60. There's people who think BTC will hit $500. $1000. What happens when it caps out? Any massive sell off just causes much less supply and they end up slowly selling it right back. They have enough holdings to survive any swing. People who use BTC as a currency will be loading money and buying daily as they do now. if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
what's with all the people waiting for >$5 coins?  oops, i reread my statement and i admit it does not make much sense but still, someone setting the price is quite opposite to the fundamentals of bitcoin, so i guess there won't be many around who support it If MtGox said "$60 is the bottom, done.". I don't see people yelling "GTFO!" after the pump and dump that just went on. Don't people crave stability? |
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DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
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April 12, 2013, 01:21:20 PM |
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You do realize the funds on MtGox don't belong to MtGox. MtGox has no legal right to place buy orders with client funds. If MtGox tried something that stupid they would be sued into bankruptcy and it wouldn't really matter because anyone with $0.01 of USD would be pulling it from the exchange.
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SuperHakka
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April 12, 2013, 01:29:13 PM |
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OP dude, this is a bad idea and would never work. The risk to Mt Gox would be way too high for them to even consider it. Think harder, say we have the protected $50-$60 range as you say, if some seriously bad news comes out, say protocol is compromised which means the true value of bitcoins should be $0 (but information leaks out slowly), then Mt Gox will run out of cash no matter how much they have. They would need $60x11m to be absolutely safe to buy all outstanding bitcoins. Then the owners have lost half a billion for no reason at all. If the Feds say tomorrow they will accept bitcoin for payment of taxes, the next moment all of Mt Gox users would stampede out of there to try to get higher prices at other exchanges, need I go on?
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'First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they attack you. Then you win.' - Mohandas Gandhi
"Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do this?' and if he would, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:30:31 PM |
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*lol* Are you kidding me? They're not even regulated. What governing body controls MtGox and what are the rules? They're allowed to shut down the exchange to upgrade a server? Whenever they like? Nothing is insured. There's no oversight. Are we still talking about bitcoins? Clients funds? Ever heard of banks? They gamble with clients billions on a daily basis. Who's really going to Japan to sue them because they are guaranteeing a $60 bottom price point for BTC? Really? You do realize the funds on MtGox don't belong to MtGox. MtGox has no legal right to place buy orders with client funds. If MtGox tried something that stupid they would be sued into bankruptcy and it wouldn't really matter because anyone with $0.01 of USD would be pulling it from the exchange.
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gimme_bottles
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April 12, 2013, 01:35:38 PM |
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*lol* Are you kidding me? They're not even regulated. What governing body controls MtGox and what are the rules? They're allowed to shut down the exchange to upgrade a server? Whenever they like? Nothing is insured. There's no oversight. Are we still talking about bitcoins? Clients funds? Ever heard of banks? They gamble with clients billions on a daily basis. Who's really going to Japan to sue them because they are guaranteeing a $60 bottom price point for BTC? Really? You do realize the funds on MtGox don't belong to MtGox. MtGox has no legal right to place buy orders with client funds. If MtGox tried something that stupid they would be sued into bankruptcy and it wouldn't really matter because anyone with $0.01 of USD would be pulling it from the exchange.
mtgox is an exchange, not a bank. it's banks business to speculate with clients funds. exchanges don't (or shouldn't). |
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:37:10 PM |
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OP dude, this is a bad idea and would never work. The risk to Mt Gox would be way too high for them to even consider it. Think harder, say we have the protected $50-$60 range as you say, if some seriously bad news comes out, say protocol is compromised which means the true value of bitcoins should be $0 (but information leaks out slowly), then Mt Gox will run out of cash no matter how much they have. They would need $60x11m to be absolutely safe to buy all outstanding bitcoins. Then the owners have lost half a billion for no reason at all. If the Feds say tomorrow they will accept bitcoin for payment of taxes, the next moment all of Mt Gox users would stampede out of there to try to get higher prices at other exchanges, need I go on?
If Bitcoins go to $0, do they really care? There's no more exchanges in that case. They declare bankruptcy. Liquidate the assets. Companies go broke all the time. If losing millions was a crime, we wouldn't have any corporations left. MtGox is tied to BTC, sink or swim. They might think this gives Bitcoin the backing/stability it needs to go to the next level. There isn't a bank in America that has the cash on hand to handle everyone withdrawing their balances. The banking industry is legalized gambling, but MtGox wouldn't stoop to that? I don't know. |
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quantsig
Newbie
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Activity: 43
Merit: 0
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April 12, 2013, 01:38:29 PM |
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Run out of cash? With account holdings they have what 10 million? 20 million? How many million would it take to cover all the people who want to cash out at $60 over the next month? Really think they'd end up with every bitcoin? I know lots of people who wouldn't sell at $100, let alone $60. What is going to convince people BTC is really worth $30 and go sell everything at $60? And never buy back in? Something would really convince the community that BTC is worth $30 when MtGox will keep buying at $60. There's people who think BTC will hit $500. $1000. What happens when it caps out? Any massive sell off just causes much less supply and they end up slowly selling it right back. They have enough holdings to survive any swing. People who use BTC as a currency will be loading money and buying daily as they do now. if you set a lower limit panic selling would stop, so mtgox would indeed run out of cash very fast. they make lot's of money, but not enough to stop a whole market from going down
There is another firm which tried to do something similar with Italian bond bets. Do a bit of research on them. Their customers all chipped in, even though they didn't know it. The name of the firm was MF Global. |
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gimme_bottles
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April 12, 2013, 01:39:14 PM |
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There isn't a bank in America that has the cash on hand to handle everyone withdrawing their balances.
that's how banks work. you won't find a single bank on earth who could instantly pay out all its clients. |
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fitty (OP)
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April 12, 2013, 01:42:32 PM |
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mtgox is an exchange, not a bank. it's banks business to speculate with clients funds. exchanges don't (or shouldn't).
They're not an exchange. They're a pretend exchange of a virtual currency. Post a link to the rules/laws/regulations MtGox, as an official "exchange" of Japan has to follow. Do they really report to the JFSA (Japan Financial Services Agency)? Come on now. |
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