[ANN] <redacted> (seeking opinions)

[debtstack]

Firstly, I wish to thank each and every person who's replied to date, I digesting your words in spite of humorous and, perhaps, incorrect responses on my part.

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the why pegging one PENJ to one US dollar is an issue given light that:

The US dollar fluctuates on a continuous basis, albeit small movements, relatively speaking.

The first pricing of bitcoins was pegged to the average electricity usage cost (calculated worldwide).

The current price per bitcoin is currently pegged to $796.08.

Yesterday's price per bitcoin was pegged to $930.28 (quasi-contrived, but you get the gist).

Akin to now being able to present a definitive mathematical proof thanks to some recent conjecture et al., Satoshi Nakamoto's solving of the double-spend problem presented in the infamous white paper may be an element incorporated in the solving of the discussed pegging issue.

I'm not a brainiac to have, let alone come up with an answer(s) sought on my own, but feel bright enough to recognize that a solution could be found, at the very least become closer to being solved via continually discussing the issue, akin how a detective (e.g.) continues to drill a suspect till the truth is revealed of their guilt or innocence. (analogy perhaps sucks, but, again, hope you get the gist)

Thanks again, guys, for all the input to date.

BTW, do you like my domain name - penjr.com? (Norwegian for money is penger)

First, the name is actually pretty good. If you are going to have a mascot I would say a penguin would be a good option.

Now onto the discussion at hand. If you think about it as you said bitcoins price was first equated to an actual statistic in power usage. But now, it is based around speculation. So in a way, your coin although pegged to a currency, could be taken down by traders speculating. The government of China can easily fluctuate the price of bitcoin, so why couldn't the US government say your coin is illegitimate which would then send your coin down in price and it would no longer have a 1to1 exchange. If you could peg a currency to another many countries would have already done that with their own. Other factors ultimately influence your coin, no matter how much you try to control it. Once released out into the wild anyone can fuck with it in any way they see fit. You have to realize someone will always try to undervalue something in order to make money off of it.

Here are some ideas I've been thinking about.

The ethereum contract is still my first choice. The reason is that you can control the amount of coins created by many factors. For instance, you could create a coin that only releases the amount bought. So if you buy 10 PNJR with $10, 10 PNJR is created and sent to that user. This would mean you would always have the same amount of dollars as PNJR. This is good since you would not have to have a large sum of cash at startup and it would never fluctuate. This actually could keep it decentralized. Take the mining idea out of it since you do not mine something with a fixed value. The more gold, diamonds, oil in circulation, the lower the price. So no mining. Instead, you would become a decentralized minter.

Also, not in the same mindset but I still want to create a coin to be used for funding experimental research. All you need is a social network site to hold the info of the research teams with a voting system similar to likes, a coin, and a fund that releases based on a timed schedule and splits it among the teams based on their percentage of the votes. I just like the idea of normal people from anywhere in the world influencing what research they want to be funded and furthered without a government body regulating who gets funds. I haven't fully worked out if the coins price would be based on speculation, percentage of patents, or percentage of the fund. If it were a percentage of the fund it wouldn't be a non profit and not so decentralized as we would control a portion of the funds at that point. This is also a case for minting instead of mining.

[Gleb Gamow]

I'll read the long reply above when I get back from a VIP dinner, but wish to comment on the following first.

TBC, are you folks telling me that my idea's impossible but a knighted penguin can be promoted to Brigadier by Norwegian King's Guard? Seriously?! What next? Presidential pardons for turkeys who never committed a crime against humanity, let alone against fellow turkeys? (apologies for wetting my pants after penning all that)

Penguin given knighthood by King of Norway

[BitcoinNational]

It's impossible, there are too many factors. I thought about it too but there are many problems involved.

There is no way to trade a coin with a fixed value.

This would then move to the biggest problem of all. The coin would have to be centralized to control it, and no one in the crypto world is interested in that. Traders and miners would turn into miniature trusted banks.

agree w/ debtstack

1. mint vs mine = tremendous cost burden to maintain the network.
2. it ain't decentro crypto world stuff

BUT

If you got the 'Nuts' to pull it off, there's a market.
Think of the overhead banks have in wiring and clearing.
You just have to do it cheaper and then you have a sale-able product.

Also you need popular opinion to "Trust" you.  << that's the sticky wicket.

ALSO
$TET is out there.  With a strong first mover advantage.  And Hollywood boy toy spokesman.

Plus Nubits, Steem Dollars, and the Exchange $ are also out there.

---------
EDIT
agree w/ ETH mint concept
interesting to see a 'contract' based issue & buyback system

[dinofelis]

Firstly, I wish to thank each and every person who's replied to date, I digesting your words in spite of humorous and, perhaps, incorrect responses on my part.

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the why pegging one PENJ to one US dollar is an issue given light that:

The US dollar fluctuates on a continuous basis, albeit small movements, relatively speaking.

The first pricing of bitcoins was pegged to the average electricity usage cost (calculated worldwide).

The current price per bitcoin is currently pegged to $796.08.

Yesterday's price per bitcoin was pegged to $930.28 (quasi-contrived, but you get the gist).

I think you're using the word "pegged" incorrectly.  Pegged means that there's a mechanism keeping it that way. 

To peg a value of an asset to the value of another one, there needs to be a liquid way to exchange them 1-1.  That's the only way.

There are also some monetary misunderstandings.  Bitcoin's price is NOT pegged to the cost of electricity.  It is not the cost of mining that makes the bitcoin price.  It is the bitcoin price that makes the cost of mining (also called the difficulty).

It is not because you have produced a bitcoin with mining equipment that has cost you $5000,- that you will find an imbecile buying it at that price.   It is because you find an imbecile that buys it at that price, that you are willing to spend up to $5000,- to compete and mine coins.

Second, the high volatility of bitcoin and other crypto, as compared to the volatility of fiat, mainly comes from the fundamentals.  A big fiat currency's price is determined mainly by Fisher's formula, that is, by the fact that it is used to buy goods and services (paying salaries, buying groceries).  The "stickyness of prices" makes that this activity and the demand that comes from it, has large inertia.  Most salaries are more or less constant amounts from one month to the other.  The grocery prices do not fluctuate much from one day to another.  So the USAGE of the fiat currency, which determines its price through Fisher's formula, is more or less constant.  This fundamental is what determines the fiat currency's price (at least, if the central bank doesn't change its offer drastically).

Crypto is mainly pure speculation, and has only a very small "usage" market cap.  As such, there's in fact no fundamental that keeps its price constant.  It is whatever people think it will be.  That's highly volatile.

[BitcoinNational]

> This fundamental is what determines the fiat currency's price

Anyone got blockchain level fundamentals on the Top5 fiats?
You know coin count, inflation rate, TX per minute?

[dinofelis]

> This fundamental is what determines the fiat currency's price

Anyone got blockchain level fundamentals on the Top5 fiats?
You know coin count, inflation rate, TX per minute?

Probably the best studied fiat is the US dollar.  You can start here:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_data.htm

and
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/categories/24

A conceptual difficulty with fiat, but it starts out with crypto too, is the actual amount in circulation.  You might think that there are about 16 million bitcoin, but that's equivalent to the number of US coins and paper bills that the FED has put in circulation.  Every exchange IOU is also a bitcoin, and counts as an inflationary pressure, if the exchange applies "fractional reserve banking".  Whatever bitcoin IOU will act as a "bank account dollar" (which is nothing else but a bank IOU of a FED dollar).

There is also an ambiguity between velocity and monetary amount.  Concerning dollars, the monetary base is equivalent to the block chain bitcoins.

[Gleb Gamow]

Firstly, I wish to thank each and every person who's replied to date, I digesting your words in spite of humorous and, perhaps, incorrect responses on my part.

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the why pegging one PENJ to one US dollar is an issue given light that:

The US dollar fluctuates on a continuous basis, albeit small movements, relatively speaking.

The first pricing of bitcoins was pegged to the average electricity usage cost (calculated worldwide).

The current price per bitcoin is currently pegged to $796.08.

Yesterday's price per bitcoin was pegged to $930.28 (quasi-contrived, but you get the gist).

I think you're using the word "pegged" incorrectly.  Pegged means that there's a mechanism keeping it that way. 

To peg a value of an asset to the value of another one, there needs to be a liquid way to exchange them 1-1.  That's the only way.

There are also some monetary misunderstandings.  Bitcoin's price is NOT pegged to the cost of electricity.  It is not the cost of mining that makes the bitcoin price.  It is the bitcoin price that makes the cost of mining (also called the difficulty).

It is not because you have produced a bitcoin with mining equipment that has cost you $5000,- that you will find an imbecile buying it at that price.   It is because you find an imbecile that buys it at that price, that you are willing to spend up to $5000,- to compete and mine coins.

Second, the high volatility of bitcoin and other crypto, as compared to the volatility of fiat, mainly comes from the fundamentals.  A big fiat currency's price is determined mainly by Fisher's formula, that is, by the fact that it is used to buy goods and services (paying salaries, buying groceries).  The "stickyness of prices" makes that this activity and the demand that comes from it, has large inertia.  Most salaries are more or less constant amounts from one month to the other.  The grocery prices do not fluctuate much from one day to another.  So the USAGE of the fiat currency, which determines its price through Fisher's formula, is more or less constant.  This fundamental is what determines the fiat currency's price (at least, if the central bank doesn't change its offer drastically).

Crypto is mainly pure speculation, and has only a very small "usage" market cap.  As such, there's in fact no fundamental that keeps its price constant.  It is whatever people think it will be.  That's highly volatile.

In spite of my post which you referenced, I truly do get how the price per BTC is now determined. That said, I was referring to: New Liberty Standard opens a service to buy and sell bitcoin, with an initial exchange rate of 1,309.03 BTC to one U.S. Dollar, or about eight hundredths of a cent per bitcoin. The rate is derived from the cost of electricity used by a computer to generate, or “mine” the currency. It wasn't long before that practice was abandoned in lieu of a bona fide exchange - enter Mt Gox.

Re: I think you're using the word "pegged" incorrectly. I think I'm using the wrong word, perhaps seeking a term akin to quasi-peg.

To be clear, if you brainiacs were in a room discussing this issue, I would be the dude making sure your drinking water glasses are topped off and performing other tasks requested of me, albeit I would've been the dude who brought you guys together.

[dinofelis]

In spite of my post which you referenced, I truly do get how the price per BTC is now determined. That said, I was referring to: New Liberty Standard opens a service to buy and sell bitcoin, with an initial exchange rate of 1,309.03 BTC to one U.S. Dollar, or about eight hundredths of a cent per bitcoin. The rate is derived from the cost of electricity used by a computer to generate, or “mine” the currency. It wasn't long before that practice was abandoned in lieu of a bona fide exchange - enter Mt Gox.
.

Ah, thanks !  I didn't know that !  Right, that was "pegged"

[Gleb Gamow]

In spite of my post which you referenced, I truly do get how the price per BTC is now determined. That said, I was referring to: New Liberty Standard opens a service to buy and sell bitcoin, with an initial exchange rate of 1,309.03 BTC to one U.S. Dollar, or about eight hundredths of a cent per bitcoin. The rate is derived from the cost of electricity used by a computer to generate, or “mine” the currency. It wasn't long before that practice was abandoned in lieu of a bona fide exchange - enter Mt Gox.
.

Ah, thanks !  I didn't know that !  Right, that was "pegged"

Ah-ha! So there's the solution - we'll at-first peg each PNJR to one US dollar, later letting the exchanges dictate its ... Gulp! Just realized what I tried to do there.

Let's see if this'll work. We'll procure a large empty vault and claim to have it filled with Beanie Babies, pegging PENJ to them. À la Hashing24, we'll point naysayers to our blockchain as proof that the Beanie Babies exist, and to our BTC reserves - https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/c7b46a79fd8887038bd3a8e884b04820038415a60e0b9d2c2f5bcff68a2687bf - as proof that we have the funds to purchase more another vault and more phantom Beanie Babies.

Apologies for not linking the txID to blockchain.info's sites, but sadly they are no longer online.   http://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-wallet-service-blockchaininfo-forced-take-service-offline-511558

https://blockchain.info/

404 page not found

[Hueristic]

I there something wrong with USDT?

Seriously I would like to know.

[ArcCsch]

Apologies for not linking the txID to blockchain.info's sites, but sadly they are no longer online.   http://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-wallet-service-blockchaininfo-forced-take-service-offline-511558

https://blockchain.info/

404 page not found

It is up, here is a "proof of life":

[Gleb Gamow]

I there something wrong with USDT?

Seriously I would like to know.

Okay, how the fuck you did that ...

https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/tether/ (real screenshot; red arrow mine)

[Spoetnik]

I'll read the long reply above when I get back from a VIP dinner, but wish to comment on the following first.

TBC, are you folks telling me that my idea's impossible but a knighted penguin can be promoted to Brigadier by Norwegian King's Guard? Seriously?! What next? Presidential pardons for turkeys who never committed a crime against humanity, let alone against fellow turkeys? (apologies for wetting my pants after penning all that)

Penguin given knighthood by King of Norway

LOL you see that penguin's swagger ? He knows he has the crowd right where he wants them !

But hey maybe you should talk to Shelby about his Bitcoin Killer coin ?
Apparently he has all the answers..

[ArcCsch]

I there something wrong with USDT?

Seriously I would like to know.

Okay, how the fuck you did that ...

https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/tether/ (real screenshot; red arrow mine)

<Image of price chart showing -0.00% change in dollar value>

I don't get your point, the dollar value changed by zero -0.00%=-0=0 , that means it did not change.
If you look at the dollar exchange rate graph (follow your link and click "Price (USD)" under the graph) you will see that it stayed constant except for a temporary drop in August 2016.
Why do you claim your coin will be better?
Tether also has the first mover advantage, you would need to overcome that if you want your coin to be popular.

[Gleb Gamow]

I there something wrong with USDT?

Seriously I would like to know.

Okay, how the fuck you did that ...

https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/tether/ (real screenshot; red arrow mine)

<Image of price chart showing -0.00% change in dollar value>

I don't get your point, the dollar value changed by zero -0.00%=-0=0 , that means it did not change.
If you look at the dollar exchange rate graph (follow your link and click "Price (USD)" under the graph) you will see that it stayed constant except for a temporary drop in August 2016.
Why do you claim your coin will be better?
Tether also has the first mover advantage, you would need to overcome that if you want your coin to be popular.

I think you mistook my post, bud. I was pointing at the $1.00 aspect, not the % change, albeit the tip of the arrow was pointing at the latter. Further, I concede that Tether may have most of the attributes I was aiming for, with the exception, perhaps, that it would most likely loose its quasi-pegged status if enjoying mega users.

[Hueristic]

I there something wrong with USDT?

Seriously I would like to know.

Okay, how the fuck you did that ...

https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/tether/ (real screenshot; red arrow mine)

Looks like the market cap is heading in the right direction. I don't know how to check if the assets to back the token are actually there or not. The site claims it is but I see no way to check except for the number they provide and the day I trust a site's numbers on own it's own statements is the day I jump off a cliff.

I've seen nothing from polo to make me concerned though.

[Blockchain Mechanic]

I cannot comment much on everything else, but decentralized pegging is rather trivial to implement, as well as supply management to maintain price range with perhaps a few blocks delay between corrections. The hilarious but solvable part is maintaining consensus across the network. This idea of yours is actually more feasible than you think.

I retract this statement, decentralization of this system is difficult. I have been trying since to prove it's feasibility, but have come to the conclusion that it may not go so smooth. Perhaps a second tier of the network entrusted with this job would suffice, but either way, it is not fully decentralized.

Nvm

[Rockie1234]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but how is this different to the Tether Currency on Poloniex?
That is also pegged to the dollar and already has a market cap of several million.
Also, how would you peg it in a decentralised way?

[Gleb Gamow]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but how is this different to the Tether Currency on Poloniex?
That is also pegged to the dollar and already has a market cap of several million.
Also, how would you peg it in a decentralised way?

Addressed here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1746861.msg17496453#msg17496453 - bud.

[ArcCsch]

There have been an attempt at macking a cryptocurrency with decentralized pegging, it is called NuBits:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuBits
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nubits/
Are you sure PNJR offers anything new?