95% lol. No chance. SegWit is now dead.

[Nicolas Tesla]

To all you fucktards criticising SegWit and LN so why don't you come up and propose alternative solutions to Bitcoins problems? Because it has serious problems on the horizon. Not least because of fucktards like yourselves sitting behind your keyboards moaning.

Wow.. I never thought I 'd say this (don't usually see you in this part of the world-as-we-know-it)... but I agree with MineCache.. {weird feeling}

( Although I choose not to use profanity.. you silly-billys.. )

Solution to Bitcoin's problems: https://www.bitcoin.com/choose-your-wallet/unlimited

Solution unlimited -> putting everything in the hands of centralized miners ! What could be go wrong ? 

[freshman777]

To all you fucktards criticising SegWit and LN so why don't you come up and propose alternative solutions to Bitcoins problems? Because it has serious problems on the horizon. Not least because of fucktards like yourselves sitting behind your keyboards moaning.

Wow.. I never thought I 'd say this (don't usually see you in this part of the world-as-we-know-it)... but I agree with MineCache.. {weird feeling}

( Although I choose not to use profanity.. you silly-billys.. )

Solution to Bitcoin's problems: https://www.bitcoin.com/choose-your-wallet/unlimited

Solution unlimited -> putting everything in the hands of centralized miners ! What could be go wrong ? 

I can tell you were drinking Core's Kool-Aid.

[dontryjustdoit]

This block size thing most people dont understand and they dont care. Either bitcoin works or it doesnt. Mots people are not technical enough to get it so it seems kind of petty. Its like kids waiting for there parent s to decide what movie they are going to. Just make a decision already.

[Nicolas Tesla]

To all you fucktards criticising SegWit and LN so why don't you come up and propose alternative solutions to Bitcoins problems? Because it has serious problems on the horizon. Not least because of fucktards like yourselves sitting behind your keyboards moaning.

Wow.. I never thought I 'd say this (don't usually see you in this part of the world-as-we-know-it)... but I agree with MineCache.. {weird feeling}

( Although I choose not to use profanity.. you silly-billys.. )

Solution to Bitcoin's problems: https://www.bitcoin.com/choose-your-wallet/unlimited

Solution unlimited -> putting everything in the hands of centralized miners ! What could be go wrong ? 

I can tell you were drinking Core's Kool-Aid.

No I am not, I am intelligent enough to not guard my sheeps by the wolf

[RawDog]

To all you fucktards criticising SegWit and LN so why don't you come up and propose alternative solutions to Bitcoins problems?

The real solution is very simple.  Use 8MB blocks for now while they continue for 3 years to get LN working right.  If 8MB actually tends to centralization, go back down to 2MB or 1MB.  If not, keep 8MB and turn LN on when it is bulletproof and free. 

But this totally fucks up Blockstream's plan to profitize the off chain activity.  So, you will hear every imaginable argument about how dangerous 8MB is.  There is nothing corrupt about going from 8MB back down to 1MB.  It's been done before.  Let's go to 8MB and see if things really move to centralization as Blockstream alleges.  We are allowed to put it back to 1MB. 

But you will never see this strategy actually unfold.  That is because Maxwell is trying to create demand for an off chain system that can be privatized.  He knows if we go to 8MB today, nothing bad will happen and there will be far less need for off chain systems for many years. 


It is a fucking scam people.  A fucking scam propagated by just a few people.  8MB will not harm the network, will allow it to grow nicely, will allow time to get a beautiful LN working.  But it will also put Blockstream investors at the back of the queue. 

Not going to 8MB is just for one reason - to protect the Blockstream investors.  They are very good at convincing China miner to go along.  Which is funny because LN is a system specifically designed to shift fees away from miners and into proprietary systems.

Stop sucking the Blockstream dick and get some balls and run BU.

[franky1]

good to see people reading and researching LN

now to put it into realistic scenario

when settling. and confirmed(after service). the funds are not spendable onchain straight away by the intended recipient. they are locked in for a week(papers scenario 1000 blocks)..
this is the same as banks/paypals. 3-5business days 'funds unavailable'. you can see it's confirmed but not matured to be spent.

however while the intended recipient is waiting a week. the other party can revoke those funds.
this is the same as banks/paypals chargeback feature.

so guys. while having a service that while inside the service you can swap IOU's instantly (like paying someone inside paypal) when it comes to channel closing and settling(withdrawing out and settling the account) you are on hold for a week and have risk of chargeback.

atleast understand the "after service experience" and understand its the same as you get with banks/paypal.

accept LN is not permissionless and your reliant on another party (dual signing) again like banks/paypal

[franky1]

anyone out there got a uptodate analysis of the "days destroyed" stat blockchain.info used to keep
to show these blockstream sheep that not many people tx's are spent multiple times a week to actually benefit from LN.

the only people using LN are a small niche amount. (daytraders, gamblers and faucet raiders)
oh need i remind blockstream sheep that intentional spammer wont use LN because their intention is not to spend but to spam.
so they will continue spamming. LN does not solve intentional spam

need i remind blockstream sheep that LN is the paypal2.0. which if they think Ver wants centralisation due to his comment about paypal2.0, this was contextually him saying he will accept that blockstream want LN(paypal2.0) if blockstream allow dynamic blocks

[RawDog]

good to see people reading and researching LN

Thank you.  Yeah, I like to have a very detailed understanding of things before giving an opinion.  I hate it when dumbasses talk all day long without knowing what they are saying.  Fucking pisses me off.  Right off.

[RawDog]

the only people using LN are a small niche amount. (daytraders, gamblers and faucet raiders)

This is very true.  Our team is working on an application where the value transferred is about $2.  Think coffee.  .35 is WAY too high of fee, but neither side wants to 'open a payment' channel.  The payment is one time - and there is no further relationship between these parties.  This is a VERY big area.  Settlement and Micropayments is not the entire story.  These mid-size payments between about $.50 and $20 are being totally abandon by the LN strategy which works great when two parties want to 'deal' all week with multiple transactions like a bar tab.  But transactions which are one time payments are fucked even if LN works perfectly.  

Run with 8MB blocks and see if the network starts to show signs of suffering.  It can be put back to 1MB if we observe adverse effects.  If not, we are in very good shape to move ahead.  The only people who are screwed are the LN profiteers (otherwise known as Blockstream investors).  LN scientists can keep working away without interruption.  8MB doesn't slow them down one bit.  Only the LN investors need to force demand at an early date.  Let Joe Poontang go work till his fingers fall off.  I hope he builds a great system.  LN scientists will be totally fine.  Only LN investors are fucked if we go to 8MB today.  

LN investors do not have the same objectives in mind as LN creators.  Please keep this in mind at all times.

LN creators want to solve a scaling problem.  LN investor want to make money today. 
LN creators are not hindered one bit by large blocks.  LN investors need to force demand for the system at an early date to realize return on their investment. 

[franky1]

LN investors do not have the same objectives in mind as LN creators.  Please keep this in mind at all times.

this i have to disagree with
blockstream NEED their LN.. not for utility. but for them becoming the hub. they already have the code to have it set up where they become the hub(removing buzzwords, they hold the DNS (peer location) seed)
they want to be the hub to charge penalty fee's and 'manage' the maturity to activate revokes. they NEED LN to start making income to repay blockstream investors.

they are in debt to a tune of well over $90m that needs repaying.
they are desperate to get LN working by a deadline or they wont get another tranche of funding. and if not hitting the deadline they need to start repaying the debt.

this is why rusty russel, sipa and maxwell are desperate to scare people into thinking LN is the only solution.
this is why rusty russel, sipa and maxwell are desperate to halt onchain dynamic scaling to make people think LN is the only solution.
this is why rusty russel, sipa and maxwell are desperate to  scare people by saying false stories of "non blockstreamers want 1gb by midnight"
this is why rusty russel, sipa and maxwell are desperate to  scare people by saying false stories of "non blockstreamers are bad"

not due to it being part of bitcoins open ethos, or the benefit of the community. but due to blockstream contracts to make returns to investors

do the sheep honestly think blockstream was given $90m investment with no ROI contract, .. where by the sheep think it was a free gift

[franky1]

Ver is trash

wow you backed that up with facts. data, statistics..

.. oh wait you didnt

[RawDog]

Ver is trash

wow you backed that up with facts. data, statistics..

.. oh wait you didnt

bitpop is stupid as a lunk of clay.  Don't expect him to present anything other than garbage.

When the community lets a profit motivated group decide major issues - clearly we are not going to get a good result.  Blockstream/Maxwell/Core are corrupt and do not go forward with a view to making the best network.  They go forward with a view to recouping their investors money.  This is fucking up Bitcoin big time. 

We have to abandon the notion that 8MB will irreparably harm the network.  Staying at 1MB only has one purpose and that is to force and early LN whereby Blockstream investors start to generate their returns. 

Every member of the community should resist this effort.  We can still build a fantastic LN.  Take our time doing it.  Make it awesome.  But, we can't let an investor group cripple the network at 1MB just so they get an early adoption before LN is truly ready. 

Go to 8MB now.  Fees go back down to .0001  Keep building LN until it is fantastic.  revoke Maxwell's commit access as he has shown himself to be corrupt. 

[Lauda]

Staying at 1MB only has one purpose and that is to force and early LN whereby Blockstream investors start to generate their returns. 

This will not happen. LN is open source and is implemented by several different groups in different ways.

Go to 8MB now.  Fees go back down to .0001  Keep building LN until it is fantastic.  revoke Maxwell's commit access as he has shown himself to be corrupt. 

Maxwell does not have commit access anymore the last time I've checked.

[doc12]

Well with my limited knowledge, I think SegWit is a good thing, I've upgraded my node to 0.13.2, and I block classic and unlimited nodes. Do I need to do anything else?

Hi, good one ! I want to block classic and unlimited nodes on my node aswell, how do i do that ?

Segwit node apdotion ( Flag "NODE_WITNESS") just crossed 50%, the BU-fanboy-team is very delusional, claiming "people dont want it blablaba".

[franky1]

Go to 8MB now.  Fees go back down to .0001  Keep building LN until it is fantastic.  revoke Maxwell's commit access as he has shown himself to be corrupt. 

we dont need to be at 8mb now.
but we do need more than 1mb.

nodes and pools should have dynamic block settings that gradually increase. EG all agree on 2mb for now and they dip their toe in the water at 1.001mb just to see if any bugs or issues occur (like the DB bug sipa implanted in v0.8 in 2013 when blocks wanted to go over 0.5mb)

if no bugs or large orphan rate occurs, each block can dip a bit further into the water. incrementing the size thats actually produced.
just like the progress from 0.5-1mb in 2013-2015, but at a rate thats natural and helps while reducing risk..
this may be as short as 2 days or longer depending on needs of the community.

then nodes when blocks get to 2mb. they can flag a bigger buffer number the nodes can cope with. and it plays out again safe natural dipping toe in the water to mitigate any orphan drama. growing naturally over time based on what the community as a whole can cope with.

yes people can have 8mb settings personally purely so they dont need to play with settings often and let consensus work out the safer increments under that where the community as a whole can accept.

[franky1]

Well with my limited knowledge, I think SegWit is a good thing, I've upgraded my node to 0.13.2, and I block classic and unlimited nodes. Do I need to do anything else?

Hi, good one ! I want to block classic and unlimited nodes on my node aswell, how do i do that ?

Segwit node apdotion ( Flag "NODE_WITNESS") just crossed 50%, the BU-fanboy-team is very delusional, claiming "people dont want it blablaba".

LOL funny
you want to create an altcoin by blocking anything not blockstream. thats real funny
blockstream fanboys wanting to centralise by not being diverse open network, and instead close themselves off into a small box and live in cabin fever of only being fed by one master at the door.

real funny

thats about as rational as letting your best friend shoot your foot because you best friend tells you someone else might shoot your foot. but its your friend that is the only one with a gun... so you let him.. infact you try to get them to teach you how to shoot yourself in your own foot

[Uberse]

The people at Reddit/Bitcoin don't seem all that much excited about this issue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5oqfzh/old_subject_i_know_but_it_seems_most_people_at/

[RawDog]

Go to 8MB now.  Fees go back down to .0001  Keep building LN until it is fantastic.  revoke Maxwell's commit access as he has shown himself to be corrupt. 

Maxwell does not have commit access anymore the last time I've checked.[/quote]

Very clever you Blockstream guys are!  hahahahha.  You don't think that we all understand that his puppets do?  Do you really think we are fooled by such clever devices and tricks for fools?  

[doc12]

Well with my limited knowledge, I think SegWit is a good thing, I've upgraded my node to 0.13.2, and I block classic and unlimited nodes. Do I need to do anything else?

Hi, good one ! I want to block classic and unlimited nodes on my node aswell, how do i do that ?

Segwit node apdotion ( Flag "NODE_WITNESS") just crossed 50%, the BU-fanboy-team is very delusional, claiming "people dont want it blablaba".

LOL funny
you want to create an altcoin by blocking anything not blockstream. thats real funny
blockstream fanboys wanting to centralise by not being diverse open network, and instead close themselves off into a small box and live in cabin fever of only being fed by one master at the door.

real funny

thats about as rational as letting your best friend shoot your foot because you best friend tells you someone else might shoot your foot. but its your friend that is the only one with a gun... so you let him.. infact you try to get them to teach you how to shoot yourself in your own foot

Sorry I dont talk to conspiracists, makes no sense.

I block everything that is developed by amateurs and can possibly harm the network. Right now the bitcoin core team is the only team with a serious option.

[franky1]

Sorry I dont talk to conspiracists, makes no sense.

blockstream $90m is not a free gift, its an investment that needs returns
blockstream are part of the bankers making their closed fiat2.0 - https://www.hyperledger.org/about/members

cant make it up when its true.

also you mentioned nodewitness
1   /Satoshi:0.13.1/   1615 (28.87%)
2   /Satoshi:0.13.2/   997 (17.82%)
main imps total = 46.69%

satoshi:0.13.99 / 119 (2.12%)
BTCC:0.13.1/ 56 (1%)  - bob lee's managed sybil distribution
knots:0.13.2/ 19 (0.34%) - luke jr
knots:0.13.1/ 7 (0.12%) - luke jr

and out of that ~50% not all of them are explicitly voting for it. they are implicitly voting for it just by staying upto date.
some are running it to test/examine and bugfind too.

so in context there is no 'majority' or even a marginal majority explicitly in favour of it. hense why high majority is required.