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Author Topic: Bitcoin trades the inequity of dynastic power for the inequity of early adoption  (Read 10615 times)
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:17:05 PM
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So, one of the main arguments I encounter when discussing Bitcoin with its promulgators is that it can potentially free the financial system from the cabal of plutocrats that currently run the show, and who have lavished enormous  wealth on themselves and their cronies. This argument seems to entirely dismiss the actions of the shady cabal who mined huge numbers of Bitcoins when doing so was trivial (and prior to any public availability), and to a lesser extent the early adopters.

When central bankers throw money like confetti at themselves and their friends whilst most others must struggle to earn small amounts of it this is deemed a moral evil. Yet when the progenitors of Bitcoin and their acolytes do much the same; capture the low hanging fruit and leave everyone else fighting over increasingly complex computational scraps this is hailed as a brave new world of financial freedom.

Should Bitcoin ever achieve the kind of ubiquity its most ardent fans hope for, these people will wield more financial power than any of the Banksters they decry. They will also control such a large amount of the monetary base that they too could end up becoming plutocrats

Far from being a revolution, the future as envisaged by Bitcoin fanboys will be little more than a changing of the cast of villains.


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April 13, 2013, 02:24:13 PM
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Apples and oranges, my friend.
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:26:48 PM
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Apples and oranges, my friend.

Are comparable as both are fruit
Severian
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April 13, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
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Bitcoin fanboys

Out of curiousity, what combined currency/payment processing network/ledger system has your devotion?

You're missing an important point: no person or group issues the currency in Bitcoin. That kind of power is removed from mere human whim and given over to an agreed upon protocol. If you don't like the protocol, you can go start your own.

The bankster cabal would never think to tell us, "Hey, go start your own currency if you don't like ours."
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April 13, 2013, 02:32:10 PM
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capture the low hanging fruit and leave everyone else fighting over increasingly complex computational scraps

Or a simple exchange transaction.
myrkul
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April 13, 2013, 02:32:54 PM
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Welcome to capitalism 101: If you don't take an opportunity, don't bitch when it takes off, and you're left behind.

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April 13, 2013, 02:35:14 PM
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Welcome to capitalism 101: If you don't take an opportunity, don't bitch when it takes off, and you're left behind.

It's like watching people hanging around a train station bitching about missing their train because they were too busy bitching about how crappy the airport is.
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:38:05 PM
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Bitcoin fanboys

Out of curiousity, what combined currency/payment processing network/ledger system has your devotion?

You're missing an important point: no person or group issues the currency in Bitcoin. That kind of power is removed from mere human whim and given over to an agreed upon protocol. If you don't like the protocol, you can go start your own.

The bankster cabal would never think to tell us, "Hey, go start your own currency if you don't like ours."

Umm, yes a rather special group does issue the currency in Bitcoin: the miners with enough state fiat capital to invest in the increasingly expensive equipment required to mine Bitcoins.

The underlying Bitcoin implementation is fine, but I find the mining aspect hugely problematic. Bitcoins should been distributed freely to people that want them so as to provide everyone an opportunity to be part of a financial reboot. Sadly Bitcoin went down the road of having engineered inequity and is as morally bankrupt as the system it seeks to supplant.
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:41:23 PM
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Welcome to capitalism 101: If you don't take an opportunity, don't bitch when it takes off, and you're left behind.

It's like watching people hanging around a train station bitching about missing their train because they were too busy bitching about how crappy the airport is.


No, it's simply me making the observation that people are so often reluctant to practice what they so ardently preach.
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April 13, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
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Bitcoin fanboys

Out of curiousity, what combined currency/payment processing network/ledger system has your devotion?

You're missing an important point: no person or group issues the currency in Bitcoin. That kind of power is removed from mere human whim and given over to an agreed upon protocol. If you don't like the protocol, you can go start your own.

The bankster cabal would never think to tell us, "Hey, go start your own currency if you don't like ours."

Umm, yes a rather special group does issue the currency in Bitcoin: the miners with enough state fiat capital to invest in the increasingly expensive equipment required to mine Bitcoins.

The underlying Bitcoin implementation is fine, but I find the mining aspect hugely problematic. Bitcoins should been distributed freely to people that want them so as to provide everyone an opportunity to be part of a financial reboot. Sadly Bitcoin went down the road of having engineered inequity and is s morally bankrupt as the system it seeks to supplant.

Oh look, another person looking for something for free. Newsflash, life isn't fair. The miners are the ones that assumed the risk, they are the ones that reap the reward. That is the "morally" correct way for something to work.

Yes, Currency should be handed out to everyone with absolutely nothing done to earn it.


 Roll Eyes

Severian
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April 13, 2013, 02:45:28 PM
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Umm, yes a rather special group does issue the currency in Bitcoin: the miners with enough state fiat capital to invest in the increasingly expensive equipment required to mine Bitcoins.

If you haven't noticed, no one miner gets all the coins in a block reward anymore. Everyone has to pony up if they want to play the lottery but the payouts are becoming more and more atomized.

But just like in the world of fiat, if you want to make money you have to outfit yourself with the proper tools and knowledge to do so. If you find this unfair, that's a problem you have with material reality and it won't likely be resolved here.

Quote
The underlying Bitcoin implementation is fine, but I find the mining aspect hugely problematic. Bitcoins should been distributed freely to people that want them so as to provide everyone an opportunity to be part of a financial reboot. Sadly Bitcoin went down the road of having engineered inequity and is s morally bankrupt as the system it seeks to supplant

Then right now would be a good time for you to begin implementing the better system to replace Bitcoin, wouldn't it?
myrkul
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April 13, 2013, 02:47:13 PM
 #12

Bitcoin fanboys

Out of curiousity, what combined currency/payment processing network/ledger system has your devotion?

You're missing an important point: no person or group issues the currency in Bitcoin. That kind of power is removed from mere human whim and given over to an agreed upon protocol. If you don't like the protocol, you can go start your own.

The bankster cabal would never think to tell us, "Hey, go start your own currency if you don't like ours."

Umm, yes a rather special group does issue the currency in Bitcoin: the miners with enough state fiat capital to invest in the increasingly expensive equipment required to mine Bitcoins.

The underlying Bitcoin implementation is fine, but I find the mining aspect hugely problematic. Bitcoins should been distributed freely to people that want them so as to provide everyone an opportunity to be part of a financial reboot. Sadly Bitcoin went down the road of having engineered inequity and is as morally bankrupt as the system it seeks to supplant.
You do know that you can just buy the damn coins, right?

Sure, the miners currently have to shell out some fairly substantial capital to rake in big gains, but you can get in the game as a small player for a few hundred bucks - whether you buy coins, or buy hardware. Hell, If I wanted to burn out my video card, I could be mining right now in a pool.

And they are "freely distributed to any who want them," ... just not for free.

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Severian
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April 13, 2013, 02:50:49 PM
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You do know that you can just buy the damn coins, right?

I think that's the part that some people find unfair. Wink
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:53:00 PM
 #14

I jut wish Bitcoin fanboys would stop pretending that whatever high-minded ideals they espouse with regard to Bitcoin, the reality is most people involved with it (especially the founders) are simply hoping to become 'rich' beyond the wildest dreams of avarice, and just like their Bankster counterparts they will spout no end of  marketspeak argot to justify their new found power.


People like myself want to see a world free of plutorats, whereas it seems to me a great many Bitcoin fantasists simply want to become plutocrats themselves.
revans
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April 13, 2013, 02:54:58 PM
 #15

You do know that you can just buy the damn coins, right?

I think that's the part that some people find unfair. Wink


That's exactly so, and given a thousand years to do nothing but contemplate why you'd still never figure it out.
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April 13, 2013, 02:59:13 PM
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So, one of the main arguments I encounter when discussing Bitcoin with its promulgators is that it can potentially free the financial system from the cabal of plutocrats that currently run the show, and who have lavished enormous  wealth on themselves and their cronies. This argument seems to entirely dismiss the actions of the shady cabal who mined huge numbers of Bitcoins when doing so was trivial (and prior to any public availability), and to a lesser extent the early adopters.

When central bankers throw money like confetti at themselves and their friends whilst most others must struggle to earn small amounts of it this is deemed a moral evil. Yet when the progenitors of Bitcoin and their acolytes do much the same; capture the low hanging fruit and leave everyone else fighting over increasingly complex computational scraps this is hailed as a brave new world of financial freedom.

Should Bitcoin ever achieve the kind of ubiquity its most ardent fans hope for, these people will wield more financial power than any of the Banksters they decry. They will also control such a large amount of the monetary base that they too could end up becoming plutocrats

Far from being a revolution, the future as envisaged by Bitcoin fanboys will be little more than a changing of the cast of villains.


Revans I agree partially

Yes. This benefits early adopters . But the makers would not have expected such price swings so if the real libertarians fout against tyranny, those  real libertarians must be feeling sad ...IMHO

However there is a beautiful way to increase equality and reduce crony capitalism..... Develop the next crypto / cyber / virtual currency ...evangelize and make that next one grow....there is place of more than one crypto / virtual currency just as there have been multiple fiats at an time in history

More currencies will make a much larger market and make adoption much more easier and the price much more stable

If currency is a medium of exchange and NOT just a medium of hoarding, why not a second or a third or a fourth .....n th medium ?

There is more than one model car , or one type of vehicle on roads

Any thoughts





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===I'm wondering why I was slaving away 9 to 5 , NOT knowing Bitcoins earlier ; Regards, CC===
myrkul
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April 13, 2013, 03:02:12 PM
 #17

You do know that you can just buy the damn coins, right?
I think that's the part that some people find unfair. Wink
That's exactly so, and given a thousand years to do nothing but contemplate why you'd still never figure it out.

"Because I want it for freeeeeeeeeee!  Cry Cry Cry"

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April 13, 2013, 03:09:20 PM
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So, one of the main arguments I encounter when discussing Bitcoin with its promulgators is that it can potentially free the financial system from the cabal of plutocrats that currently run the show, and who have lavished enormous  wealth on themselves and their cronies. This argument seems to entirely dismiss the actions of the shady cabal who mined huge numbers of Bitcoins when doing so was trivial (and prior to any public availability), and to a lesser extent the early adopters.

When central bankers throw money like confetti at themselves and their friends whilst most others must struggle to earn small amounts of it this is deemed a moral evil. Yet when the progenitors of Bitcoin and their acolytes do much the same; capture the low hanging fruit and leave everyone else fighting over increasingly complex computational scraps this is hailed as a brave new world of financial freedom.

Should Bitcoin ever achieve the kind of ubiquity its most ardent fans hope for, these people will wield more financial power than any of the Banksters they decry. They will also control such a large amount of the monetary base that they too could end up becoming plutocrats

Far from being a revolution, the future as envisaged by Bitcoin fanboys will be little more than a changing of the cast of villains.


The "shady cabal"?  Really?  And "their acolytes"?  Yeah - we're the new generation of the Illuminati.  [That reminds me... I got some lizard blood on my ceremonial robes at the last secret meetup... gotta get to the secret drycleaners.]

Do you even know anything about the history of bitcoin?  At all?

Why don't you read the Hal Finney thread.  He mined (No link:  forgive me - but I'm thinking you can do your own research)  block #14 I think?  It was all open on the web - for those with vision and desire - after the genesis block was mined.  Just because you do not appear to have vision, and your desire appears to extend only to dissing those who posses it, doesn't mean that what you say is true.

If you think the early adopters are getting wealthy sitting on their asses, you're a complete idiot.  Bitcoin was only an opportunity - it made just the right people work their asses off:  those people with vision and desire.  That's part of the brilliance of it.

I am grateful every day for what little I have been able to contribute, what little coin I have accumulated since 2011 when I started, and how remarkably my life has changed for having been able to participate in this.

Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
revans
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April 13, 2013, 03:14:15 PM
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So, one of the main arguments I encounter when discussing Bitcoin with its promulgators is that it can potentially free the financial system from the cabal of plutocrats that currently run the show, and who have lavished enormous  wealth on themselves and their cronies. This argument seems to entirely dismiss the actions of the shady cabal who mined huge numbers of Bitcoins when doing so was trivial (and prior to any public availability), and to a lesser extent the early adopters.

When central bankers throw money like confetti at themselves and their friends whilst most others must struggle to earn small amounts of it this is deemed a moral evil. Yet when the progenitors of Bitcoin and their acolytes do much the same; capture the low hanging fruit and leave everyone else fighting over increasingly complex computational scraps this is hailed as a brave new world of financial freedom.

Should Bitcoin ever achieve the kind of ubiquity its most ardent fans hope for, these people will wield more financial power than any of the Banksters they decry. They will also control such a large amount of the monetary base that they too could end up becoming plutocrats

Far from being a revolution, the future as envisaged by Bitcoin fanboys will be little more than a changing of the cast of villains.


The "shady cabal"?  Really?  And "their acolytes"?  Yeah - we're the new generation of the Illuminati.  [That reminds me... I got some lizard blood on my ceremonial robes at the last secret meetup... gotta get to the secret drycleaners.]

Do you even know anything about the history of bitcoin?  At all?

Why don't you read the Hal Finney thread.  He mined (No link:  forgive me - but I'm thinking you can do your own research)  block #14 I think?  It was all open on the web - for those with vision and desire - after the genesis block was mined.  Just because you do not appear to have vision, and your desire appears to extend only to dissing those who posses it, doesn't mean that what you say is true.

If you think the early adopters are getting wealthy sitting on their asses, you're a complete idiot.  Bitcoin was only an opportunity - it made just the right people work their asses off:  those people with vision and desire.  That's part of the brilliance of it.

I am grateful every day for what little I have been able to contribute, what little coin I have accumulated since 2011 when I started, and how remarkably my life has changed for having been able to participate in this.


You clearly don't know as much as you think.

http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009
revans
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April 13, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
 #20

The difference between Bitcoin and existing systems is that everyone using Bitcoin must play by the same rules. That's as fair as you are going to get in this world.

Those who first take advantage of the available tools will always have an edge. Such is life. I suggest you embrace it.

How are they playing by the same rules when the founders mined millions of Bitcoins when it was computationally trivial to do so? Bitcoin mining will soon become so hard that massive investment in equipment will be required.
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