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Author Topic: Get rid of taxes altogether and create private cities  (Read 2164 times)
killer2021
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June 16, 2011, 08:51:45 AM
 #21

you mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd-0keS6uDI

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June 16, 2011, 08:53:01 AM
 #22


I worry about large waves and storms lol but I don't know how bad seasteading would be, tbh.

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June 16, 2011, 08:57:12 AM
 #23

If you are looking for escaping taxes, what you need is a new country, not a city. No matter were you setup your city, the country's government will pronto step in and claim it's fair share. They will do it democratically too, by convincing people in other cities that your city is rich simply because you are exploiting everybody else, and so you must pay for it.

The libertarian state was attempted and failed, google for Minerva Republic. It failed because it's an oxymoron, the free market can only survive on a solid bed of statehood that's defended from outside attacks by altruistic individuals, i.e. an army willing to die for it's country. Otherwise it's just a cluster of self interested individuals that can be easily dispersed by a bunch of angry pacific islanders armed with sticks and rocks.
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June 16, 2011, 09:04:01 AM
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I worry about large waves and storms lol but I don't know how bad seasteading would be, tbh.

I think the idea is more of an intellectual idea. The sea stead would not have permanent residents (for the most part).

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caveden
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June 16, 2011, 09:11:55 AM
 #25

It's already been done.  City is owned by a company, Alphaville Urbanismo, and you pay them for all the utilities and services and so forth.  You don't get to opt out of certain ones though IIRC, you just pay or don't live there.  I heard about it on bitcoin-otc.  One of the BTC day traders on otc either lives near by or used to work for the company or something like that.

Alphaville are just big and rich condos, they have no political independence.

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June 16, 2011, 09:13:10 AM
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I think that you might actually be able to build a state within a state, at the moment setting up your own state results in other states attacking you.

You set up inside a state and your protected from outside threats (depending which state), and only have to worry about internal ones, i.e. the state itself cracking down on you.

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June 16, 2011, 09:23:01 AM
 #27

For some reason people are really worried about how the government is going to continue to tax them after bitcoin takes over:

* http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13622.0
* http://owni.eu/2011/05/30/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/
* http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/

However, this is not our problem. I propose another solution. Now is the time for private cities. We will design these cities on the internet. In these cities, every thing is free market, including the cities themselves. You live in which city you decide is best for you.

Bitcoin is a free market solution to the problem of centralized control. Why in the world should we be trying to solve government's problem of how best to coerce us into paying for their wars? Instead, let's solve the problem of taxes the bitcoin way: with a free market. You decide which city you live in. Some will charge higher fees than others. If you don't want to pay for wars, then don't live in cities that charge you for them.


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June 16, 2011, 09:35:08 AM
 #28



 Grin


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June 16, 2011, 09:38:28 AM
 #29

How about supporting The Free State Initiative, it aims at doing pretty much what you ask, create a new state (in the size of a giant city) with everything free market. The people behind have stated that it has a fair chance of achieving its goals within few years.

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June 16, 2011, 10:09:46 AM
 #30

I know that the Englands havent tried to conquer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand because they did not want bear the risk of dead soldiers and negative press
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June 16, 2011, 01:53:18 PM
 #31

It would probably be very expensive to design and construct an entire city from scratch. However, there is another option. We could wait for some government to collapse, and then take over one of their cities. The way we could do this is as follows. We find an unstable city, and then establish ourselves in one of their neighborhoods, or create a new neighborhood nearby. We will establish services and try to be as independent as possible. When the government collapses, chaos will reign everywhere except in our neighborhood. If we are successful, we would be able to expand our neighborhood until we encompass the entire city.

Of course, the point is not to coerce people or use violence in any way. We would take over the city because we were better, not because we were more manipulative.
Please, by all means go ahead and do that. Someone must have failed their junior sociology class...
I personally find it very closed-minded when people go "you must have failed a class" when someone presents an unusual idea. If every idea was shot down and abandoned like that, because "school said it's not possible", we would probably not be anywhere near the level of technological advancement we are at now.
To pull out the old analogy, flat earth vs. round earth.

You'll have to think freely, without boundaries set by previous events or knowledge, to find truly revolutionary concepts.

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June 16, 2011, 02:29:09 PM
 #32

It would probably be very expensive to design and construct an entire city from scratch. However, there is another option. We could wait for some government to collapse, and then take over one of their cities. The way we could do this is as follows. We find an unstable city, and then establish ourselves in one of their neighborhoods, or create a new neighborhood nearby. We will establish services and try to be as independent as possible. When the government collapses, chaos will reign everywhere except in our neighborhood. If we are successful, we would be able to expand our neighborhood until we encompass the entire city.

Of course, the point is not to coerce people or use violence in any way. We would take over the city because we were better, not because we were more manipulative.
Please, by all means go ahead and do that. Someone must have failed their junior sociology class...
I personally find it very closed-minded when people go "you must have failed a class" when someone presents an unusual idea. If every idea was shot down and abandoned like that, because "school said it's not possible", we would probably not be anywhere near the level of technological advancement we are at now.
To pull out the old analogy, flat earth vs. round earth.

You'll have to think freely, without boundaries set by previous events or knowledge, to find truly revolutionary concepts.

I agree, nonetheless you have to be a total n00b to history and to life itself to come out with this sort of libertard nonsense.


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June 16, 2011, 02:29:21 PM
 #33

Quote
You'll have to think freely, without boundaries set by previous events or knowledge, to find truly revolutionary concepts.

So what you are saying is that we should entertain flat-earthists as possible visionaries on the sole basis they go against the current, despite lacking basic knowledge of astronomy, physics or history ?

School is good. It's sometimes wrong. If you want to find the wrong parts, it helps to know them. If you want to convince other people, you'd better have expert knowledge of the status-quo of the field. Otherwise you are just a quack who skipped some classes.
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June 16, 2011, 02:41:23 PM
 #34

Who cares about schools and classes. Ideas stand on their own regardless of what classes someone took. Orelse you got yourself an argument from authoriteee

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June 16, 2011, 03:16:07 PM
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Ideas stand on their own

Except when they don't, revealing lack of basic literacy in the field. Literacy that can be obtained freely in the age of Wikipedia and pirated ebooks, no actual school required (yay, no homework!).
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June 16, 2011, 03:36:30 PM
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You'll have to think freely, without boundaries set by previous events or knowledge, to find truly revolutionary concepts.

So what you are saying is that we should entertain flat-earthists as possible visionaries on the sole basis they go against the current, despite lacking basic knowledge of astronomy, physics or history ?

School is good. It's sometimes wrong. If you want to find the wrong parts, it helps to know them. If you want to convince other people, you'd better have expert knowledge of the status-quo of the field. Otherwise you are just a quack who skipped some classes.
No, I am saying you should not assume that something you learned in school is correct, and the ultimate and absolute truth.

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June 16, 2011, 03:43:26 PM
 #37

Zeitgeist movement is thinking of developing self-sufficient communities. Their primary objective is figure out a way to be energy independent. They believe that our technologies advanced to the level that most human labor can be replaced with technology, etc. etc etc...
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June 16, 2011, 04:40:07 PM
 #38

It would probably be very expensive to design and construct an entire city from scratch. However, there is another option. We could wait for some government to collapse, and then take over one of their cities. The way we could do this is as follows. We find an unstable city, and then establish ourselves in one of their neighborhoods, or create a new neighborhood nearby. We will establish services and try to be as independent as possible. When the government collapses, chaos will reign everywhere except in our neighborhood. If we are successful, we would be able to expand our neighborhood until we encompass the entire city.

Of course, the point is not to coerce people or use violence in any way. We would take over the city because we were better, not because we were more manipulative.
Please, by all means go ahead and do that. Someone must have failed their junior sociology class...

Yep, I failed sociology. I also failed economics, hence my belief in bitcoin.
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June 16, 2011, 04:46:40 PM
 #39

Check out this podcast for discussion on this topic: http://agoristradio.com/?p=95

The guest points out that you could easily hire military vets to defend the city states, militia-style. Give them actual benefits instead of fucking them over like the USG.
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June 16, 2011, 05:50:23 PM
 #40

Check out this podcast for discussion on this topic: http://agoristradio.com/?p=95

The guest points out that you could easily hire military vets to defend the city states, militia-style. Give them actual benefits instead of fucking them over like the USG.

This. This is exactly what we're talking about. Also, thanks for the new podcast.

Edit: Having now listened to the guy's suggestions, they're not exactly what we're talking about, but it's closer than Rapture.

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