Bitvest scam how you were likely conned out your btc.

[SparkedDev]

It was all a misunderstanding sorry for any trouble

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[Zodiac1233]

We've talked with Sparked and clarified everything. This issue as a whole was basically a bunch of miscommunication and some misunderstanding.

[SparkedDev]

It was all a misunderstanding sorry for any trouble

[ImHash]

Don't you guys have something like nondisclosure or contract of sorts? this is really bad if you knew those things all this time then why didn't you come forward with your information and expose them sooner? now that they are not paying you hush money you are doing this?

So they protect their investors, but have they stole from any one other than delayed withdraws?

[RHavar]

What was SparkedDev's role in bitvest? A developer/admin?

Note: The above message from SparkedDev is being posted due to us refusing to pay an extortion demand of 2.5 BTC!

So your proof of existence looks valid, that was a clever thing to prepare. It does not make SparkedDev look good as either:
a) He is extorting
b) He is willing to cover up for money


However, I guess most of us in the peanut gallery are more interested in if his claims are true or not  



Anyway, an obvious way for Bitvest to get on top of this is to switch to something like what bustabit/moneypot (and probably a lot more?) do and always debit accounts for withdrawals even if there's not enough money to process it right away. Then when there is enough funds, they get sent out.

[SparkedDev]

Don't you guys have something like nondisclosure or contract of sorts? this is really bad if you knew those things all this time then why didn't you come forward with your information and expose them sooner? now that they are not paying you hush money you are doing this?

So they protect their investors, but have they stole from any one other than delayed withdraws?

No basically if anyone was having a good run up and draining the investors profits they would delay withdraws.
that would normally be more then what the wallet held, so someone who really drained investor profits.

[Zodiac1233]

Don't you guys have something like nondisclosure or contract of sorts? this is really bad if you knew those things all this time then why didn't you come forward with your information and expose them sooner? now that they are not paying you hush money you are doing this?

So they protect their investors, but have they stole from any one other than delayed withdraws?

We have at times delayed withdrawals. For example, we have intentionally delayed withdrawals of very large wins while we double-checked everything to make sure the wins were legitimate. There are also times when a large withdrawal request is made and I don't have access to the funds to process it, lightlord holds the vast majority of site funds and is a very busy person. Check our reputation and our thread, there is not a single complaint of a non-payment. The fact that we allow players to play is a convenience factor. We do acknowledge that it could make a player lose some funds, or perhaps even win more, but that is on them, nobody is forcing them to play.

[SparkedDev]

Don't you guys have something like nondisclosure or contract of sorts? this is really bad if you knew those things all this time then why didn't you come forward with your information and expose them sooner? now that they are not paying you hush money you are doing this?

So they protect their investors, but have they stole from any one other than delayed withdraws?

We have at times delayed withdrawals. For example, we have intentionally delayed withdrawals of very large wins while we double-checked everything to make sure the wins were legitimate. There are also times when a large withdrawal request is made and I don't have access to the funds to process it, lightlord holds the vast majority of site funds and is a very busy person. Check our reputation and our thread, there is not a single complaint of a non-payment.

There is a few people who have posted about yous guys in the past saying they bet all their funds away because you took to long.

Anyone who knows anything knows bitvest is not regulated and there other site 777coin is the same.

They answer to no one other then their self, they can run with your funds at any time and you would never find them.

[Zodiac1233]

There is a few people who have posted about yous guys in the past saying they bet all their funds away because you took to long.

A player opting to bet their balance away is their choice, we give them that option. They could win, they could lose, it is merely done a convenience to allow users to play more. I do acknowledge that them losing could result in better profits for investors, but again, they are opting to bet it themselves.

[SparkedDev]

It was all a misunderstanding sorry for any trouble

[Zodiac1233]

Anyone who knows anything knows bitvest is not regulated and there other site 777coin is the same.

They answer to no one other then their self, they can run with your funds at any time and you would never find them.

The unregulated part is true of nearly every bitcoin casino, and running with the funds is possible for any bitcoin company. If there was a way we could run the site without having to store user funds, or in some trustless way, we'd be doing that for sure.

We make every effort we can to be fully transparent, our wallets and addresses at bitvest are public knowledge, along with a full proof of liabilities and reserves. We have a solid reputation spanning back to 2013, lightlord had done well over 100 BTC in trade. personally, and paid out 1000's of withdrawals between his casinos and never had a single issue before.

[ImHash]

Don't you guys have something like nondisclosure or contract of sorts? this is really bad if you knew those things all this time then why didn't you come forward with your information and expose them sooner? now that they are not paying you hush money you are doing this?

So they protect their investors, but have they stole from any one other than delayed withdraws?

No basically if anyone was having a good run up and draining the investors profits they would delay withdraws.
that would normally be more then what the wallet held, so someone who really drained investor profits.

If they were doing something illegal and you didn't do anything about it then you are equally guilty, they delaying money withdrawals requested by gamblers after they won, first it shows that people really win and it's not a losing nightmare for players and secondly it shows that they care about their own and their investors funds and are concerned about security.
I think you are the one looking bad here, because you are betraying the confidence they've put in you and blaming them not for theft or fraud but for not paying you.

Signing contracts using block chain is something that could come handy in the future.

[Zodiac1233]

Most of your mod tools are meant to be shady.
Shaddow ban, bans people from rain but still allows them to speak no one ever answers them why they don't earn from the rain bot.
The new auto banning system, and system that bans people but lets them still type thinking they aren't banned.
Plus and minus system that allows mods to rate users chat to decide how often they get picked.
i can go on about your mod tools and rules you have which are slightly shady.

These tools exist to make spammers think their spam is being seen. It makes it so they have a harder time realizing they were banned, which leads to drastically less effective spam. This is why our chat is so clean.

The shadowban is used on multi-accounters who attempt to abuse the system to earn more than their fair share of rain, this keeps the rainbot fair for everyone.

The +/- ratings are used to evaluate a user's chat, this makes the user more likely to receive rain in the future if they are helpful, or less likely if they are breaking chat rules.

Also, you were told to not disclose of these tools, you are sharing trade secrets on a public forum. This may cause permanent damage to the effectiveness of our moderation tools.

[navaman]

The only reason reality and anything Sparked says intersect is just random chance.

My favorite recent Sparked statments.  These are as best as I can remember them:

"I am watching chat all the time.  I was warned by the board not to chat."  Huh?

"Bitcoin went down because China was gonna sell Dollars at 2/3 the price"  He might be smarter than Bernanke on this one.

"I know this because I have friends that work in banking in China.  They aren't Chinese.  One of them is hispanic."  What?

[wry]

Okay, so basic accusation is:

a. You assert you were promised a cut of the profits (5%, when the site picked up), then told it wasn't going to happen (when you asked about it two months ago), but assumed they were still going to take care of you ("so i figured that didn't mean me") and when they didn't you demanded 2.5 BTC.

b. Bitvest intentionally delays paying out winners in hopes they will continue gambling and lose back what they won.

I'm sorry you feel you were lied to.  I can understand being upset by that, but it sounds like you really were not promised anything.  When they didn't respond to your direct inquiry, that was a pretty good clue.  They've never suggested that mods would be compensated other than a larger faucet, a point you made yourself many times in chat.

You did post a lot here for the site.  As I said over in the bitvest thread I think you would have made more over time being a good vice admin than going this route.  (And you can't take the moral high road here, because you were willing to not say anything for 2.5 BTC, if you really though delayed payments were intentional you should have spoken up right away.  But you didn't, in fact you continued to refer people to bitvest.)

As far as the delay time, the site takes its cut "up front" it's a percentage of what players wager, not what they lose.  The site doesn't care if players win or lose, that comes directly from investors, so I don't see a big incentive to delay payments to screw players.  Not saying players don't sometimes wait on payments, I've tried to help players who are waiting for a payout get in touch with Zodiac, just pointing out the site doesn't have a big incentive to delay payments.  

However, I like RHaver's idea about immediately debiting accounts.

You were often fun to chat with but your actions here don't make a lot of sense to me though.  I hope you'll drop this.

[Zodiac1233]

What was SparkedDev's role in bitvest? A developer/admin?

Note: The above message from SparkedDev is being posted due to us refusing to pay an extortion demand of 2.5 BTC!

So your proof of existence looks valid, that was a clever thing to prepare. It does not make SparkedDev look good as either:
a) He is extorting
b) He is willing to cover up for money


However, I guess most of us in the peanut gallery are more interested in if his claims are true or not  



Anyway, an obvious way for Bitvest to get on top of this is to switch to something like what bustabit/moneypot (and probably a lot more?) do and always debit accounts for withdrawals even if there's not enough money to process it right away. Then when there is enough funds, they get sent out.

He was the lead of that chat moderation team for the majority of his time on Bitvest. He held no special powers on his account, aside from a few tools reserved for higher level moderators. You can see above, he also just leaked what all of those are.

[dean nolan]

There is a few people who have posted about yous guys in the past saying they bet all their funds away because you took to long.

A player opting to bet their balance away is their choice, we give them that option. They could win, they could lose, it is merely done a convenience to allow users to play more. I do acknowledge that them losing could result in better profits for investors, but again, they are opting to bet it themselves.

You only give that choice so they can lose it back you have told me several times you hope they lose it back.
To tell people you wernt there so you didnt have to answer withdraw questions.
You pushed it off on us other mods to be exact.

Most of your mod tools are meant to be shady.
Shaddow ban, bans people from rain but still allows them to speak no one ever answers them why they don't earn from the rain bot.
The new auto banning system, and system that bans people but lets them still type thinking they aren't banned.
Plus and minus system that allows mods to rate users chat to decide how often they get picked.
i can go on about your mod tools and rules you have which are slightly shady.
I can go on and on about the shady things you guys have done and prob will continue to do.

You know that proof of liability system yeah it don't update very often and they could be gone for hours with your money and you would never know.

In fact lets tell everyone how many tokens you pay out, the whole reason for the bonus rain is to allow users to put btc in it but guess who is getting most of if in the end that's bitvest.

Please go on because so far none of the things you have posted are anything remotely like a scam

Delaying withdrawals is not a scam.
There are legit reasons for a site to delay withdrawals, especially large ones, such as:
Investigating that the player had not cheated.
Investigating that there was not some fraudulent withdrawal attempt.
Not enough funds in the hot wallet.
Bitcoin security is hard to get right and you don't want to keep much in a hot wallet for the reasons listed above as well as others.

As Ryan said the accounts could be debited and so a player can't play. On BetKing I made it so accounts were debited and then the user would have a pending
transaction until the wallet had enough funds or I processed manually.
But lots of sites don't have that.
You know what my most requested feature was? Cancel pending withdrawal so that the player could continue to play

It is the players decision to gamble. The site is didn't make them just because withdrawals were delayed a while.

So your main scam accusation has no weight.

Regarding mod tools. It is not shady to shadow ban people. I think almost all sites do this.
It is smart because level one spammers/scammers and abusers (of any rules a site decides) will not know they are banned and not look to get around the
ban system to continue their spam/abuse.

Banning people from rain is perfectly reasonable. That is money the owners of the site are giving away for free and it attracts some absolute scum to a chat who will abuse it

Bonus systems are of course designed to get more users to a site. Did you think gambling sites were charity?

Lastly you say the owners said they hope the players lose it back.
Got news for you, it's a business not a charity. Of course most owners hope a player loses their winnings back.

So none of your scam accusation here is valid at all and you are clearly just annoyed you never got a share of the profit.

That's another issue though that is for you guys to work out. But not a scam the way you say it is.
 

[SparkedDev]

Okay, so basic accusation is:

a. You assert you were promised a cut of the profits (5%, when the site picked up), then told it wasn't going to happen (when you asked about it two months ago), but assumed they were still going to take care of you ("so i figured that didn't mean me") and when they didn't you demanded 2.5 BTC.

b. Bitvest intentionally delays paying out winners in hopes they will continue gambling and lose back what they won.

I'm sorry you feel you were lied to.  I can understand being upset by that, but it sounds like you really were not promised anything.  When they didn't respond to your direct inquiry, that was a pretty good clue.  They've never suggested that mods would be compensated other than a larger faucet, a point you made yourself many times in chat.

You did post a lot here for the site.  As I said over in the bitvest thread I think you would have made more over time being a good vice admin than going this route.  (And you can't take the moral high road here, because you were willing to not say anything for 2.5 BTC, if you really though delayed payments were intentional you should have spoken up right away.  But you didn't, in fact you continued to refer people to bitvest.)

As far as the delay time, the site takes its cut "up front" it's a percentage of what players wager, not what they lose.  The site doesn't care if players win or lose, that comes directly from investors, so I don't see a big incentive to delay payments to screw players.  Not saying players don't sometimes wait on payments, I've tried to help players who are waiting for a payout get in touch with Zodiac, just pointing out the site doesn't have a big incentive to delay payments.  

However, I like RHaver's idea about immediately debiting accounts.

You were often fun to chat with but your actions here don't make a lot of sense to me though.  I hope you'll drop this.

As for them telling i wouldn't get any two months ago no that isnt true zod said the system wasn't being built.
I then sent him a message about my earnings which i never got a reply to normally he replies.
I was busy at the end of the year with real world things which is why i was becoming more absent which im sure you guys noticed.

They also decided to cut this plan when they started making good profit funny how that works after one year of service for them already after them telling me i would be getting a cut.

[SparkedDev]

.

[Zodiac1233]

I was told 5% of the profit once things picked up i would be getting, you guys now have between 100Btc - 113.77 Btc.

That number is reasonably close to our revenue but is well above our actual profits. Bitvest is not cheap to run, especially the well over 1.5 billion tokens we have had converted, and several BTC before the token system as well.

You were also told we were planning to give a cut to the moderation team, the 5% was not all for you, it also hadn't been decided whether or not it would go forward, this was communicated to you nearly immediately after the mention of the 5%. The plan was then dropped and not discussed any further, nor were any promises made to the mods.

You then had brought it up some time later, perhaps a month or two? I honestly don't know. But at that time, due to the confusion, and lack of communication, we had paid you 5% of the profits for the duration of that period and then told there would be no further payments, and the idea had been scrapped. Your continued "work" at that moment, and acknowledging that you understand the terms presented constitutes acceptance. You could have stepped down, or negotiated different terms, but you opted not do so.

I was told that i would be compensated for being a vice-admin and for over a year i received nothing.

You received a drastically larger faucet, which you could have easily received many bitcoins from. Our mods have claimed over 5 BTC from our faucet, about 3-4 BTC of that coming from the mods larger faucet size. If anything, this *is* a payment of a notable percentage of all profits, and overall larger than the 5% planned number for the mod team we had as an initial idea, and quite large considering nobody was ever promised anything.

If the plan ever did go forward back in the day, your share would have likely been only 0.75 - 1.25% at most.

After all the time and work that i have put into the site and the community this is the level of trust i get after thousands of hours logged.

I never said to you that you did this, all I know is your computer and network are where the actions were executed, while it may not have been you, I'm sure you'd agree that you are at least partially responsible since your computer being compromised is what caused the incident.

I provided a lot of my own winnings and btc to events tipped a lot of people.

You were told many times you would not receive compensation for that, as you were doing it with your own funds, from your own pocket, you also had clearly shown you were aware of this

I can confirm this above PM which sparked has posted elsewhere is genuine. We were attempting to negotiate (since we felt bad that he had genuinely misunderstood us) before he had a sudden outburst and started threatening to share trade secrets and implicitly threatening to forge documents. At that moment, it had turned from a negotiation to extortion, and we do NOT respond to threats of extortion.