Paypal Chargeback/Fraud Question

[viking02]

I never received paypal from someone unless that person is someone i trust and very respected.  This is what i would like to know.   If someone sells their bitcoin to someone else for their paypal.  That person who traded their paypal to them sent funds that are fraudulent.  I assume what happens is the person who received those paypal funds will eventually receive a message from ebay its fraudulent and then remove the funds from that persons account.  Is that correct?  If that happens, how long could a chargeback happen or notification of fraud?  I heard people get hacked paypal accounts and use those for buying bitcoin etc.


So if this happens, then the person who received the paypal is always screwed right?  But how long do they know that their funds they received are fine?  Thus could it be months before paypal notify them this?  What if then they already withdraw the funds to their bank account assuming the funds were legit?


Now this is what im curious about.  If someone sends fraudulent paypal funds to a bitcoin seller.  Then that bitcoin seller traded those paypal funds to a friend of theres for bitcoin or poker funds or anything else, what in the world happens here?  If the person that received the paypal last the one going to get screwed assuming paypal doesn't notice this until much later on?  So if a person sold bitcoin and received $1000 paypal from someone.  Then traded those paypal funds to another user.  What happens here?  What if the guy who first sold bitcoin sold $1000 worth for paypal.  He then send say $500 of it to someone else for their bitcoin or similar.  Then each of those 2 honest guys gets screwed for $500 each? 


I ask this because i only accept paypal from people i trust very well.  However, what if they received funds from someone who used a bought paypal account or do chargeback or something similar?  Then they send the funds to me not knowing those funds are fraudulent?  Thus do i have to make sure with that guy, hey are these your funds etc?  Because what if any portion of those funds they have in their paypal account are fraudulent?  What happens there?


So this is one of the reasons im starting to be not sure if i want to accept any paypal because the person i trust, they might not be careful and accept paypal from users who are scammers etc.  If anyone has thoughts, insight or story on this, i like to hear it.  Thanks.

[Pursuer]

oh boy that was a long text
none of the things you are asking is bitcoin related and you can find out all about them with a quick search about paypal and how people are getting screwed over it.

it all comes back from the chargeback feature. and when you use it with bitcoin you are screwed from 3 different directions
1) bitcoin is irreversible. but paypal isn't
2) paypal doesn't care about their customers, no matter who they are. if the charge back is successful they don't waste any time listening to argument
3) the important part of it is that when you use paypal to sell bitcoin (receive paypal) you are violating their rules and if you say anything about charge back they not only won't listen but also they may even close your account.

with all that said, whenever you are dealing with money (fiat) and reversible methods like paypal, .... it is only based on trust. which means the two parties should trust each other to do the trade. and that is why websites that you purchase from ask you all kinds of personal information and identification.

[davis196]

The same thing you described might happen with a hacked bank account.
Anyway Paypal started to execute some 24 hour "payment reviews" of some transactions.
Two months ago one guy sent me $189 and the transaction was put "under review" for 24 hours.
Maybe the paypal staff is trying to increase their control to prevent fraudulent transactions.

[viking02]

yes i understand this is a paypal question and not really bitcoin.


But example someone sends paypal funds which are not legitimate.  That person who received those paypal funds did not know those funds were not legit.


They then trade those paypal funds to a friend for their bitcoin.  So in the end, who gets screwed here?  Is it the last guy who received those paypal funds?  Or is it the guy who first received the not legit paypal funds?  Im assuming its who has those paypal funds when the chargeback or fraud is discovered by paypal?  The thing is because of this, doesn't that make it not really safe to receive paypal funds even from a friend because the paypal funds they have, they might have received fraudulent funds? 

[Bit2Easy]

But example someone sends paypal funds which are not legitimate.  That person who received those paypal funds did not know those funds were not legit.

They then trade those paypal funds to a friend for their bitcoin.  So in the end, who gets screwed here?  Is it the last guy who received those paypal funds?  Or is it the guy who first received the not legit paypal funds?  Im assuming its who has those paypal funds when the chargeback or fraud is discovered by paypal?  The thing is because of this, doesn't that make it not really safe to receive paypal funds even from a friend because the paypal funds they have, they might have received fraudulent funds? 

The one who gets screwed is the one who originally received the money. That's the reason i think no escrow wants to take paypal, because if buyer chargebacks or the funds are not legit, escrow gets screwed. AFAIK that basically makes Bitcoin the equivalent of anti-Paypal. I wouldn't recommend you for selling btc to PayPal anyway given the high chance of getting scammedz

[viking02]

But example someone sends paypal funds which are not legitimate.  That person who received those paypal funds did not know those funds were not legit.

They then trade those paypal funds to a friend for their bitcoin.  So in the end, who gets screwed here?  Is it the last guy who received those paypal funds?  Or is it the guy who first received the not legit paypal funds?  Im assuming its who has those paypal funds when the chargeback or fraud is discovered by paypal?  The thing is because of this, doesn't that make it not really safe to receive paypal funds even from a friend because the paypal funds they have, they might have received fraudulent funds? 

The one who gets screwed is the one who originally received the money. That's the reason i think no escrow wants to take paypal, because if buyer chargebacks or the funds are not legit, escrow gets screwed. AFAIK that basically makes Bitcoin the equivalent of anti-Paypal. I wouldn't recommend you for selling btc to PayPal anyway given the high chance of getting scammedz

Can someone here confirm this?  The reason why i didn't want to accept paypal from someone i know is because they have done trades with others for paypal and im not sure those other people are reputable.


So if this is the answer, then i have no issue trading for their paypal etc.

[pooya87]

But example someone sends paypal funds which are not legitimate.  That person who received those paypal funds did not know those funds were not legit.

They then trade those paypal funds to a friend for their bitcoin.  So in the end, who gets screwed here?  Is it the last guy who received those paypal funds?  Or is it the guy who first received the not legit paypal funds?  Im assuming its who has those paypal funds when the chargeback or fraud is discovered by paypal?  The thing is because of this, doesn't that make it not really safe to receive paypal funds even from a friend because the paypal funds they have, they might have received fraudulent funds? 

The one who gets screwed is the one who originally received the money. That's the reason i think no escrow wants to take paypal, because if buyer chargebacks or the funds are not legit, escrow gets screwed. AFAIK that basically makes Bitcoin the equivalent of anti-Paypal. I wouldn't recommend you for selling btc to PayPal anyway given the high chance of getting scammedz

Can someone here confirm this?  The reason why i didn't want to accept paypal from someone i know is because they have done trades with others for paypal and im not sure those other people are reputable.


So if this is the answer, then i have no issue trading for their paypal etc.

you can never rely on the reputation alone. it may very well be fake reputation or they can scam you even with a high reputation. it has happened before (there was an escrow with highest reputation on the forum who ran away with escrow bitcoin).
if you are receiving paypal you are at risk
if you are sending papal they are at risk,

[cakravothy]

paypal is not recomended is transaction and receive payment exchange bitcoin
because paypal can feature dispute, after bitcoin sending, buyer can dispute paypal
and balance paypal can back again to buyer
and you can't anything to back paypal balance, because tx id transaction bitcoin is nothing support for evidence

[adzino]

yes i understand this is a paypal question and not really bitcoin.
But example someone sends paypal funds which are not legitimate.  That person who received those paypal funds did not know those funds were not legit.
They then trade those paypal funds to a friend for their bitcoin.  So in the end, who gets screwed here?  Is it the last guy who received those paypal funds?  Or is it the guy who first received the not legit paypal funds?  Im assuming its who has those paypal funds when the chargeback or fraud is discovered by paypal?  The thing is because of this, doesn't that make it not really safe to receive paypal funds even from a friend because the paypal funds they have, they might have received fraudulent funds? 

As far as i know in the end, the last guy who received those funds gets screwed. And other accounts through which the transactions went through goes under review. I am not sure though. You can google it and find a bit more information, but all i can suggest is that avoid paypal if you are doing any kind of transaction related to bitcoin. And if you do have to use paypal make sure it's someone you know and trusted.

[erikalui]

Payza & Skrill work the way you described that if your seller/buyer receives fraudulent funds, you too suffer a loss while in PayPal, only the person suffers the loss who has been chargedback and his balance goes negative.

Check this: Your PayPal account may show a negative balance if there’s been a chargeback or a payment reversal because a buyer complaint was decided against you.


A chargeback can be filed within 180 days of receiving the payment. After that, the claim is not considered. Also, a buyer can open a dispute only one with regards to a particular transaction. If the dispute is cleared/closed, he cannot do it again.

[aioc]

Those are the risk of using paypal,in my case I always make my balance zero so in case there are charge back and thery limit my account I still have my money,my friend's account was limited for 180 days and he badly needed the  $500 balance,but they just ignore my friend's request ,they are very strict in implementing the 180 days restrictions.

[philggg]

PayPal as a reversible currency is trying to prevent fraud with people money.a lot of scammers are using stolen card to send fund or hack PayPal and use it to buy things online. PayPal is dueing the right things by discouraging fraudulent practice. so I will advice you not to accept PayPal from people you don't trust