Mtgox claim officially turned bitcoin into Ponzi

[lucif]

Look what they say! ZOMG

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130412.html

There is no doubt that we are expecting a violent crash of Bitcoin after trading resumes, but we are confident that this Panic Sell will be temporarily and that Bitcoin will rise again.

This claim can be recognized as promising of further high returns.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

Bitcoin missed only one sign of financial pyramid: promises of high returns. And here is it! Congrats gox, well done.

[1715398313]

1715398313

[Ekaros]

Are exchanges even allowed to say things like that?

Those guys are jokes. It's not their job to speculate on the value, just offer the best service possible.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Look what they say! ZOMG

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130412.html

There is no doubt that we are expecting a violent crash of Bitcoin after trading resumes, but we are confident that this Panic Sell will be temporarily and that Bitcoin will rise again.

This claim can be recognized as promising of further high returns.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

Seems u r right but ur opinion is quite biased. U've sold ALL coins if I remember correctly, haven't u?

[wojtek]

yeah, i noticed that too. so mtgox speculate over bitcoin price. very unprofessional.

[smoothie]

Look what they say! ZOMG

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130412.html

There is no doubt that we are expecting a violent crash of Bitcoin after trading resumes, but we are confident that this Panic Sell will be temporarily and that Bitcoin will rise again.

This claim can be recognized as promising of further high returns.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

Lucif,

I don't see where they PROMISE anything in terms of returns.

You need to get your facts straight.

I agree they shouldn't be speculating on the price in lieu of their customers but claiming something is a ponzi without showing 100% that by definition it matches makes you look retarded.

 

[arepo]

someone needs to delete this post... it is a bald assertion that is false to anyone's knowledge.

i understand we all hate mt gox but accusations like this are serious, and crying wolf on legitimate business just helps real ponzis battle rumors.

[CliffordM]

I see the quotation 'will rise again' to be more of the biblical type, meaning that it will not die.

[oakpacific]

As far as I am concerned, when you spell "bitcoin" with the first letter capitalized, you are talking about the currency, the network and community as a whole, not the unit itself, so I would interpret their statement to mean" Bitcoin will not die because of this." But, yeah, it can be misleading.

Even if  it is the other case, Gox may just tried to be Captain obvious, not Charles Ponzi. Suppose the bitcoin price does not rise again, there are only two remaining scenarios, it goes straight down or flatline, either way Gox can't make money anymore and has to close, so obviously they have to believe the price will rise again.

[lucif]

someone needs to delete this post... it is a bald assertion that is false to anyone's knowledge.

i understand we all hate mt gox but accusations like this are serious, and crying wolf on legitimate business just helps real ponzis battle rumors.

Actually this is bad press release. Assertion is secondary.

[oakpacific]

someone needs to delete this post... it is a bald assertion that is false to anyone's knowledge.

i understand we all hate mt gox but accusations like this are serious, and crying wolf on legitimate business just helps real ponzis battle rumors.

Actually this is bad press release. Assertion is secondary.

It is, but if you read the statement carefully, you can see many mistakes made. They capitalize the initials of the phrase "panic sell", and use "temporarily" in place where they should use "temporary", I suspect that whoever put that down could be in serious hangover after all that happened that day.

Since it's just one single instance I will give them the benefit of doubt, if I see the same thing to happen another 2 or 3 times, I may raise my level of suspicion.

[lucif]

[lucif]

We are confident ... that Bitcoin  will rise again. Nuff said.

[Bitcoin Oz]

You actually use mt gox still ? huh

[Luno]

Their main source of income is not depending on higher prices directly, but price attracts interest which leads to more trades with them.

Price recovering would also be an indicator that the market didn't got scared because of the DDos and if that was their belief at the time such statement makes sense.

However DDossing has happend two times since and Gox have babied the price afterwards each time with their cool down periods. If this ever goes to a court of law they have to proof that they never had any agreement with the DDosser as their efforts to recover trust and get people buying again two times more have led to yet another attack.

[molecular]

Are exchanges even allowed to say things like that?

Those guys are jokes. It's not their job to speculate on the value, just offer the best service possible.

That's not true. It's not their "job" to do anything. Their goal might be to make money.

It's the responsibility of the customer to take his business elsewhere if he doesn't like the show any more.

[silverback]

I really don't understand how MtGox is still the default exchange. What with all you highly skilled technical enthusiasts devoting so much time an energy to the bitcoin experiment. Oh, wait, that would be actual work and not just a circlejerk. My bad.

[Hawkix]

We are confident ... that Bitcoin  will rise again. Nuff said.

When I say that Phoenix will rise from dust, does it mean it will be traded on higher price?

Please, distinguish between Bitcoin and its price. And do not take MtGox English too seriously.

[lucif]

We are confident ... that Bitcoin  will rise again. Nuff said.

When I say that Phoenix will rise from dust, does it mean it will be traded on higher price?

Please, distinguish between Bitcoin and its price. And do not take MtGox English too seriously.

If you sell Phoenix and take money for it, and say it will rise - it is clear Ponzi with all such conditions.

If you don't sell Phoenix and tell it will rise - it's not a Ponzi. Feel the difference?

[rebuilder]

Sounds like Gox knew they'd be blamed for the crash and tried to talk an angry mob down a bit.

[Vandroiy]

That statement does look like investment advice.

It would be better to keep these things separate from statements by the exchange. Keeping the mania alive is very much in Gox' interest and a naïve person might go by it.