private drones

[em3rgentOrdr]

Here's what Eric Schmidt says: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/google-head-worried-about-privacy-risk-posed-by-civilian-drones/

"How would you feel if your neighbor went over and bought a commercial observation drone that they can launch from their backyard. It just flies over your house all day. How would you feel about it? I'm not going to pass judgment on whether armies should exist, but I would prefer to not spread and democratize the ability to fight war to every single human being. It's got to be regulated... It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen."

But what do my fellow bitcoiners think on the matter?

[1715334425]

1715334425

[1715334425]

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[Akka]

If a espionage drone is flying over my property spying on me, I should be allowed to shoot it down, whether or not it's from the Government.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If a espionage drone is flying over my property spying on me, I should be allowed to shoot it down, whether or not it's from the Government.

That would be the answer.  If people didn't have the skills or capabilities to defend themselves from private property drones I am sure the free market would think of solutions.  Some companies might do it just for salvage rights.  Personally I have no problem with limited governments in theory.  The problem is that technology should have made governments more limited over time.  There is less and less need for the government to solve all problems.  However over the past say 100 years we have seen the exact opposite.  In the US the government share of GDP has continually rose for the last 50 or so years and so has number of agents employed by the government and the government's ability to spy on its own citizens.

[cbeast]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

[BIGMERVE]

Wether we like it or not we will lose all privacy in the future. It's been slowly happening for a long time and it will continue to happen.

[DeathAndTaxes]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

Now who didn't smile thinking about going to work shooting down drones.  At the very extreme if anyone hasn't read Neil Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" it is a good read.  "Drones" are at the nano machine level.  Entire communities have drone swarms (think trillions) which act as an immune system hunting and disabling unauthorized drones much like your body hunts down infections. 

[myrkul]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

Now who didn't smile thinking about going to work shooting down drones.  At the very extreme if anyone hasn't read Neil Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" it is a good read.  "Drones" are at the nano machine level.  Entire communities have drone swarms (think trillions) which act as an immune system hunting and disabling unauthorized drones much like your body hunts down infections. 

May or may not get that small, but yeah, I anticipate that arms race will be enjoyable to watch.

[Mike Christ]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

[myrkul]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

Privately owned.... :p

[Mike Christ]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

Privately owned.... :p

So they're public drones, with private ownership   Problem is, nobody is going to want one around them, so how would it work?

[Anon136]

non military and non government... is there some reason why we should expect government and military drones to be less of a threat than private drones?

[myrkul]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

Privately owned.... :p

So they're public drones, with private ownership   Problem is, nobody is going to want one around them, so how would it work?

The idea is you use them to keep publicly owned -and other private drones - drones away from your airspace. At least, that's how I'd use 'em.

[EtherDais]

Hmm, I can make 3D printed drone parts if anyone wants to make their own cheap quadcopter counter-drone.

[Mike Christ]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

Privately owned.... :p

So they're public drones, with private ownership   Problem is, nobody is going to want one around them, so how would it work?

The idea is you use them to keep publicly owned -and other private drones - drones away from your airspace. At least, that's how I'd use 'em.

Ha ha wouldn't be necessary if we'd all agree not to use them   Like that'll ever happen.

[myrkul]

Private drones--isn't that an oxymoron?  What are you gonna do, keep it in your house?

Privately owned.... :p

So they're public drones, with private ownership   Problem is, nobody is going to want one around them, so how would it work?

The idea is you use them to keep publicly owned -and other private drones - drones away from your airspace. At least, that's how I'd use 'em.

Ha ha wouldn't be necessary if we'd all agree not to use them   Like that'll ever happen.

I'll agree right now to never use a surveillance drone. Unless, you know, I suddenly become a private detective or something.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Butterfly Drones will be limited to only the first 300 orders for Batch #1, and we only accept Bitcoin as a payment option.

Our company consist of 22 employees...

Customer service means a lot to us, so we are expanding our staff...

Regardless of what you may have read on some forum, only two or three people have cancelled their pre-orders.

Our first batch of wings have arrived, therefore expect delivery next week, but don't ship your trade-in paper airplanes to us until we instruct you to do so.

We have shipped our first unit, but the party requested that we keep the drone at our facility for further testing.

Yes, we increased our prices for the second batch, but so did the other company that sells an inferior product and was late on delivery.

Jake, who just happens to work across the street from our facility, was kind enough to take a tour of operation. He was so impressed, we hired him as our PR guy. His background consist of building a model rocket once and operating a BBS that had 22 clients at its peak, the largest BBS at the time in Tennessee. (unfortunately, I didn't make that last sentence up)

Honest Abe, we will keep you abreast of any developments, so quit bother our customer service team with your silly questions. When there is something to ship, they will be the first to know and will relay the information to you. Meanwhile, does anybody know when the next edition of MineCraft is expected to be released?

Here's a video of one of our happy customers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRCXrr-XHo

[Anon136]

Butterfly Drones will be limited to only the first 300 orders for Batch #1, and we only accept Bitcoin as a payment option.

Our company consist of 22 employees...

Customer service means a lot to us, so we are expanding our staff...

Regardless of what you may have read on some forum, only two or three people have cancelled their pre-orders.

Our first batch of wings have arrived, therefore expect delivery next week, but don't ship your trade-in paper airplanes to us until we instruct you to do so.

We have shipped our first unit, but the party requested that we keep the drone at our facility for further testing.

Yes, we increased our prices for the second batch, but so did the other company that sells an inferior product and was late on delivery.

Jake, who just happens to work across the street from our facility, was kind enough to take a tour of operation. He was so impressed, we hired him as our PR guy. His background consist of building a model rocket once and operating a BBS that had 22 clients at its peak, the largest BBS at the time in Tennessee. (unfortunately, I didn't make that last sentence up)

Honest Abe, we will keep you abreast of any developments, so quit bother our customer service team with your silly questions. When there is something to ship, they will be the first to know and will relay the information to you. Meanwhile, does anybody know when the next edition of MineCraft is expected to be released?

Here's a video of one of our happy customers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRCXrr-XHo

im trying to push my cash through the screen but it wont go!?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

im trying to push my cash through the screen but it wont go!?

You're not doing it right. Please email me your interest, and when I'm ready I'll request of you payment. Meanwhile, you'll receive a copy or two of our Newsletter proving that we can be trusted.

Bear in mind, that it's us that's taking all the risk in offering our lifetime warranty.

Butterfly Drones will be giving vouchers to the early investors due to the first shipment of wings using more power in flight than originally designed. AlphaAero will be sending us a new batch from Chicago and should only take a couple days to arrive at our new facility with the fancy signage at the entrance.

Meanwhile, get ready to trade-in your paper airplanes, for we is about to ship.

Once shipped, the revues will be coming in like a swarm of locust, detailing on how the Drones worked in their wind tunnels. You don't have a wind tunnel? No problem! Simply construct a box of...

[JimmiesForBitcoins]

It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen."

I completely disagree. They have no legitimacy to be doing it whatsoever. Private individuals actually would, whether for resource prospecting, security, or search and rescue. There's lots of legitimate commercial applications for it. But letting a completely unaccountable, monopolistic organization that has the power to imprison and/or fine you thousands of dollars for destroying their hardware? Letting them monitor, track, and pass judgments upon you remotely from hundreds of feet in the air?

You must think CISPA is fantastic.

If a espionage drone is flying over my property spying on me, I should be allowed to shoot it down, whether or not it's from the Government.

That would be the answer.  If people didn't have the skills or capabilities to defend themselves from private property drones I am sure the free market would think of solutions.  Some companies might do it just for salvage rights.

Due to people shooting them down or disabling them by other means, I believe their deployment by private individuals would be cost-prohibitive outside of business applications. I think common law would largely recognize people's right to protect their privacy from such drones. Seriously, who could blame someone for shooting down a drone that was monitoring them? I believe we call that "stalking".

[myrkul]

It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen."

I completely disagree. They have no legitimacy to be doing it whatsoever. Private individuals actually would, whether for resource prospecting, security, or search and rescue. There's lots of legitimate commercial applications for it. But letting a completely unaccountable, monopolistic organization that has the power to imprison and/or fine you thousands of dollars for destroying their hardware? Letting them monitor, track, and pass judgments upon you remotely from hundreds of feet in the air?

You must think CISPA is fantastic.

Just to clarify.

[JimmiesForBitcoins]

It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen."

I completely disagree. They have no legitimacy to be doing it whatsoever. Private individuals actually would, whether for resource prospecting, security, or search and rescue. There's lots of legitimate commercial applications for it. But letting a completely unaccountable, monopolistic organization that has the power to imprison and/or fine you thousands of dollars for destroying their hardware? Letting them monitor, track, and pass judgments upon you remotely from hundreds of feet in the air?

You must think CISPA is fantastic.

Just to clarify.

Whoops. It happens sometimes when I try to limit the size of wall-of-texts.

[Mike Christ]

The government is always legitimate; and if what they're doing is not legitimate, they'll pass a law to make it legitimate.  After the Patriot Act, I don't see how the government could ever do wrong   It is, after all, legal for them to do whatever it takes to get those gosh golly-gee-wiz dang-darned terrorists.

[NedKLee]

May  I recommend reading "Kill Decision" by Daniel Suarez, you want Drones, you got 'em, then start looking over your shoulder.

[pheaonix]

it seems google has revealed themselves to be idiotic statists

[Rassah]

Would be neat seeing a large drone get swarmed by a small flock of quadcopters, like little birds trying to defend their home from a hawk. Though might get messy down below.

[myrkul]

Would be neat seeing a large drone get swarmed by a small flock of quadcopters, like little birds trying to defend their home from a hawk. Though might get messy down below.

Yeah, falling wreckage could get dangerous.

[Rassah]

Would be neat seeing a large drone get swarmed by a small flock of quadcopters, like little birds trying to defend their home from a hawk. Though might get messy down below.

Yeah, falling wreckage could get dangerous.

... A bunch of quadcopters fly up and hook onto various parts of the other drone, they all shut down their electrical components completely while one discharges an EMP to shut off the big drone's radio receiver, then the rest of the drones power back up and guide the "catch" back to base?

Oh if only FBI and SWAT didn't go completely nuts over something like that happening 

[myrkul]

Would be neat seeing a large drone get swarmed by a small flock of quadcopters, like little birds trying to defend their home from a hawk. Though might get messy down below.

Yeah, falling wreckage could get dangerous.

... A bunch of quadcopters fly up and hook onto various parts of the other drone, they all shut down their electrical components completely while one discharges an EMP to shut off the big drone's radio receiver, then the rest of the drones power back up and guide the "catch" back to base?

Oh if only FBI and SWAT didn't go completely nuts over something like that happening 

Only a matter of time until it, or something like it, does, though.

[dg2010]

LOL at all the privacy nuts going crazy about these things.

If you truly understood the technical capabilities of these things, you probably wouldn't be so afraid.

I have been flying drones for 4 years now and prior to that had cameras on my RC planes for many years. I am qualified and authorized to fly these things legally for commercial reasons throughout Europe.

For a start.... range. Rotor drones typically cannot fly further than about 4km before they run out of juice. Airplanes much further. However the further you fly away, the higher you have to fly to maintain clean "line of sight".  So if you are worried about someone flying over your house and looking in your windows, well he would have to be within a few hundred meters of your house (or on a high platform looking in), in which case they might as well walk by with a camera.

Personally I'm not too worried unless they start changing the law, I'm on the other side of the fence and had to spent quite a few thousand £ to become qualified so I probably won't be affected.

[Rassah]

For a start.... range. Rotor drones typically cannot fly further than about 4km before they run out of juice. Airplanes much further. However the further you fly away, the higher you have to fly to maintain clean "line of sight".  So if you are worried about someone flying over your house and looking in your windows, well he would have to be within a few hundred meters of your house (or on a high platform looking in), in which case they might as well walk by with a camera.

True, the conversation did sort of veer off into the crazy. Sorry about that.

Regarding the OP topic, though, I suspect private drones will not be flown for mile-long distances, and there will likely be cases that involve some private citizens flying them a bit too close for other people's comfort (nosy neighbors and such). I'm not too worried about farmers, surveyors, or search&rescue drones flying a few 1,000 feet above looking for stuff either.

[myrkul]

For a start.... range. Rotor drones typically cannot fly further than about 4km before they run out of juice. Airplanes much further. However the further you fly away, the higher you have to fly to maintain clean "line of sight".  So if you are worried about someone flying over your house and looking in your windows, well he would have to be within a few hundred meters of your house (or on a high platform looking in), in which case they might as well walk by with a camera.

True, the conversation did sort of veer off into the crazy. Sorry about that.

Regarding the OP topic, though, I suspect private drones will not be flown for mile-long distances, and there will likely be cases that involve some private citizens flying them a bit too close for other people's comfort (nosy neighbors and such). I'm not too worried about farmers, surveyors, or search&rescue drones flying a few 1,000 feet above looking for stuff either.

I'm certainly less worried about private drones than I am military ones.

[RodeoX]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

Shooting it down would be fun, but capturing it would be even more fun. It might even be easy to interfere with the control signal and send that plane to the ground.

[myrkul]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

Shooting it down would be fun, but capturing it would be even more fun. It might even be easy to interfere with the control signal and send that plane to the ground.

Relatively cheap, too.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/college-researchers-hack-government-drone-with-1000-gps-spoofer/

[DeathAndTaxes]

it seems google has revealed themselves to be idiotic statists

Not Google ... Google's VERY RICH CEO.  The state protects the ultra-Rich.  In the absence of a state can you imagine what Schmidt would need to spend on private security forces?

[JimmiesForBitcoins]

it seems google has revealed themselves to be idiotic statists

Not Google ... Google's VERY RICH CEO.  The state protects the ultra-Rich.  In the absence of a state can you imagine what Schmidt would need to spend on private security forces?

I reckon probably not much. Likely much less than they pay in taxes to subsidize public military. Who the heck is going to come after Google, state or none? Even if someone wanted to steal all the data, they'd have a much easier time doing it remotely than by breaking into their facilities and jacking up the hardware anyway. Surely their private records aren't just sitting there unencrypted.

So basically it's a question is, "Who would want to steal google's servers?" In which case... There's much easier targets than heavily defended data centers, aren't there? Most of those places are built to withstand natural disasters and not-so-natural ones.

Heck, I'd love to see high tech soldiers with a google patch. That would be badass.

https://i.imgur.com/PnvsUnM.jpg

Though they'd more likely just outsource to security companies.

[myrkul]

it seems google has revealed themselves to be idiotic statists

Not Google ... Google's VERY RICH CEO.  The state protects the ultra-Rich.  In the absence of a state can you imagine what Schmidt would need to spend on private security forces?

I reckon probably not much. Likely much less than they pay in taxes to subsidize public military. Who the heck is going to come after Google, state or none? Even if someone wanted to steal all the data, they'd have a much easier time doing it remotely than by breaking into their facilities and jacking up the hardware anyway. Surely their private records aren't just sitting there unencrypted.

If anyone wants the data, Google is more than willing to sell it to anyone with the money. They've as much as said so - to the government, no less.

No, D&T is speaking of how much they would have to shell out to protect the CEO..

[Phinnaeus Gage]

There could be a private anti-drone business. This could be great fun until someone loses an eye.

Shooting it down would be fun, but capturing it would be even more fun. It might even be easy to interfere with the control signal and send that plane to the ground.

The fun would be short-lived if you don't disconnect its GPS quickly enough. But, if you were able to do that, then hold it for ransom, payable via Bitcoin only.

[Lethn]

It's got to be regulated... It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen.

I think I'm turning into a chaos space marine from warhammer because the second I read this I thought "Loyalist scum!" no person, government entity or even alien or private organisation has the right to spy on me in my own backyard, if people are going to go around buying drones I'm going to find out how to build one specifically to shoot them down, governments can't justify this, they are supposed to protect the people, not spy on everything they're doing.

[myrkul]

It's got to be regulated... It's one thing for governments, who have some legitimacy in what they're doing, but have other people doing it... it's not going to happen.

I think I'm turning into a chaos space marine from warhammer because the second I read this I thought "Loyalist scum!" no person, government entity or even alien or private organisation has the right to spy on me in my own backyard, if people are going to go around buying drones I'm going to find out how to build one specifically to shoot them down, governments can't justify this, they are supposed to protect the people, not spy on everything they're doing.

If they can see it simply by poking their heads over the fence, it's hard to call doing the same from 1000 ft up any different.

There's a reason all my windows have their shades down.

[Rassah]

no person, government entity or even alien or private organisation has the right to spy on me in my own backyard, if people are going to go around buying drones I'm going to find out how to build one specifically to shoot them down, governments can't justify this, they are supposed to protect the people, not spy on everything they're doing.

Hey, you're the one scattering your photons all over the place. Don't want people to spy on you? Don't throw your photons into their back yards.

[Richy_T]

I remember when they were called remote-controlled-airplanes.

<--- getting old.

[Rassah]

I remember when they were called remote-controlled-airplanes.

<--- getting old.

I think the reason the name changed was because the drone drones can take off, fly to waypoints, and land completely automatically without anyone radio controlling them.

[Richy_T]

True. But I think that's mostly not what people are talking about when they're talking about "drones" in the hands of the public or the police.

[myrkul]

True. But I think that's mostly not what people are talking about when they're talking about "drones" in the hands of the public or the police.

Then the difference lies in the camera and two-way communication capabilities.

[Richy_T]

True. But I think that's mostly not what people are talking about when they're talking about "drones" in the hands of the public or the police.

Then the difference lies in the camera and two-way communication capabilities.

I think the difference is more in the "cool factor". I knew a guy who was doing this stuff 3-4 years ago and the word "drone" never came out of his mouth.

[myrkul]

True. But I think that's mostly not what people are talking about when they're talking about "drones" in the hands of the public or the police.

Then the difference lies in the camera and two-way communication capabilities.

I think the difference is more in the "cool factor". I knew a guy who was doing this stuff 3-4 years ago and the word "drone" never came out of his mouth.

Yes, but what came out of his mouth was probably considerably longer and harder to say than "drone."

[Rassah]

I remember when "pivot" used to be not a thing... 

[Richy_T]

True. But I think that's mostly not what people are talking about when they're talking about "drones" in the hands of the public or the police.

Then the difference lies in the camera and two-way communication capabilities.

I think the difference is more in the "cool factor". I knew a guy who was doing this stuff 3-4 years ago and the word "drone" never came out of his mouth.

Yes, but what came out of his mouth was probably considerably longer and harder to say than "drone."

Yes. But I think the gain in accuracy greatly compensated for the extra 500ms

I think Rassah is correct. If it has a pilot, whether he be onboard or on the ground, it's not a drone. Though I may be missing the definition. I should look it up.

[Richy_T]

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/04/12/what-is-a-drone-anyway/

[DeathAndTaxes]

I think Rassah is correct. If it has a pilot, whether he be onboard or on the ground, it's not a drone. Though I may be missing the definition. I should look it up.

Then there are no drones anywhere in active service and ever use of the definition from the media to the Pentagon is incorrect.

For example this drone ...



Has a 2 man operating team on the ground (actually 6 man so they can take shifts for continual operation)

[Richy_T]

ever use of the definition from the media to the Pentagon is incorrect.

And your point is?

[myrkul]

Per Wikipedia, a drone is any unmanned (that includes programmable and remotely operated) vehicle.

So the Predator is a drone, and technically so is a toy airplane or a quadcopter.

As are underwater ROVs and the Google Car.

[Richy_T]

Per Wikipedia, a drone is any unmanned (that includes programmable and remotely operated) vehicle.

So the Predator is a drone, and technically so is a toy airplane or a quadcopter.

As are underwater ROVs and the Google Car.

I like wikipedia but I wouldn't necessarily trust it for definitions.

Dictionary.com says:

drone
1 [drohn] Show IPA
noun
1. the male of the honeybee and other bees, stingless and making no honey. See illus. under bee.
2. a. an unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight: the GPS of a U.S. spy drone.
    b. (loosely) any unmanned aircraft or ship that is guided remotely: a radio-controlled drone.
3. a person who lives on the labor of others; parasitic loafer.
4. a drudge.

[myrkul]

I like wikipedia but I wouldn't necessarily trust it for definitions.

Looks like definition 2 matches pretty well. (the wiki disambiguation page for "drone" also includes references to the bee)

[Rassah]

5. An over-excited bitcoiner who was asked "What is a bitcoin?" for the following 15 to 60 minutes.

[Richy_T]

I like wikipedia but I wouldn't necessarily trust it for definitions.

Looks like definition 2 matches pretty well. (the wiki disambiguation page for "drone" also includes references to the bee)

I concur. Though "loosely" indicates, to me, that it's not strictly being used correctly. But language drifts and it's pointless to rail against it.

[myrkul]

I like wikipedia but I wouldn't necessarily trust it for definitions.

Looks like definition 2 matches pretty well. (the wiki disambiguation page for "drone" also includes references to the bee)

I concur. Though "loosely" indicates, to me, that it's not strictly being used correctly. But language drifts and it's pointless to rail against it.

Sounds about right. 

[Anon136]

Per Wikipedia, a drone is any unmanned (that includes programmable and remotely operated) vehicle.

So the Predator is a drone, and technically so is a toy airplane or a quadcopter.

As are underwater ROVs and the Google Car.

wait a second. If the google car is really unmanned what do they do when it runs out of gas?

[myrkul]

Per Wikipedia, a drone is any unmanned (that includes programmable and remotely operated) vehicle.

So the Predator is a drone, and technically so is a toy airplane or a quadcopter.

As are underwater ROVs and the Google Car.

wait a second. If the google car is really unmanned what do they do when it runs out of gas?

Well, you do have a point. Do passengers count as "manned?"

[Richy_T]

I'd imagine automated gas stations will certainly be in place.