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Author Topic: We need decentralized Mixers services  (Read 1596 times)
Kprawn
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January 29, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
 #1

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

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January 29, 2017, 07:20:07 PM
 #2

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

How would an idea like this work (a decentralised mixer)?
Is it not easier to send a transaction through multiple mixers instead. I think you could probably add a recieving address of one to the sending address of another and then finannly output the actual transaction afterwards.

Do you mean having multiple people/client computers running the service in many different locations - doesn't it always require a central place for the website's interface (unless you use the PM system of a forum or an email)?

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January 30, 2017, 12:51:53 AM
 #3

There is coinjoin - used by http://samouraiwallet.com/


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January 30, 2017, 05:31:56 PM
 #4

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

How would an idea like this work (a decentralised mixer)?
Is it not easier to send a transaction through multiple mixers instead. I think you could probably add a recieving address of one to the sending address of another and then finannly output the actual transaction afterwards.

Do you mean having multiple people/client computers running the service in many different locations - doesn't it always require a central place for the website's interface (unless you use the PM system of a forum or an email)?

Yes, centralized services can be taken down, but decentralized services will resist interference from government intervention. Bitcoin

is decentralized, and the essential services linked to it, should also be decentralized. We should have decentralized tumblers and also

exchanges to support it.  Grin ..... We have seen moderate resistance from the governments so far, but as soon as they have replaced

Fiat with their own Blockchain based currencies, it would will become a whole other story... They WILL become more aggressive.  Angry

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January 30, 2017, 07:02:22 PM
 #5

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

How would an idea like this work (a decentralised mixer)?
Is it not easier to send a transaction through multiple mixers instead. I think you could probably add a recieving address of one to the sending address of another and then finannly output the actual transaction afterwards.

Do you mean having multiple people/client computers running the service in many different locations - doesn't it always require a central place for the website's interface (unless you use the PM system of a forum or an email)?

Yes, centralized services can be taken down, but decentralized services will resist interference from government intervention. Bitcoin

is decentralized, and the essential services linked to it, should also be decentralized. We should have decentralized tumblers and also

exchanges to support it.  Grin ..... We have seen moderate resistance from the governments so far, but as soon as they have replaced

Fiat with their own Blockchain based currencies, it would will become a whole other story... They WILL become more aggressive.  Angry

There's little they'll be able to do anyway (until data anaysis from uantum computers maybe)...
Any sort of thing with bitcoin would be questionableas evidence and it's already fairly unknown who sends the coins anyway.

What you could do is have a thread here and say a cmmunity of people will send/recieve the funds instead.
So someone says either on the chat or by PM "can someone send 0.1BTC to [reciever address], There's 0.101BTC in escrow for the task".
That'd be quite unique here and if there was only one address that everyone sent the coins to per user then it would work.

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January 30, 2017, 07:31:30 PM
 #6

There is coinjoin - used by http://samouraiwallet.com/

CoinJoin seems very promising. It lets you mix btc without giving control of your btc to any other person. I'm not sure if it is decentralized or how it finds people to mix with.
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January 31, 2017, 05:39:18 PM
 #7

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

How would an idea like this work (a decentralised mixer)?
Is it not easier to send a transaction through multiple mixers instead. I think you could probably add a recieving address of one to the sending address of another and then finannly output the actual transaction afterwards.

Do you mean having multiple people/client computers running the service in many different locations - doesn't it always require a central place for the website's interface (unless you use the PM system of a forum or an email)?

Yes, centralized services can be taken down, but decentralized services will resist interference from government intervention. Bitcoin

is decentralized, and the essential services linked to it, should also be decentralized. We should have decentralized tumblers and also

exchanges to support it.  Grin ..... We have seen moderate resistance from the governments so far, but as soon as they have replaced

Fiat with their own Blockchain based currencies, it would will become a whole other story... They WILL become more aggressive.  Angry

There's little they'll be able to do anyway (until data anaysis from uantum computers maybe)...
Any sort of thing with bitcoin would be questionableas evidence and it's already fairly unknown who sends the coins anyway.

What you could do is have a thread here and say a cmmunity of people will send/recieve the funds instead.
So someone says either on the chat or by PM "can someone send 0.1BTC to [reciever address], There's 0.101BTC in escrow for the task".
That'd be quite unique here and if there was only one address that everyone sent the coins to per user then it would work.

Nope, there is a lot they can do, once they figure out who is behind these mixers. They can shut it down, seize all equipment and then

run forensic software to extract deleted information and track all money that were send through these services. The Blockchain is

the best evidence you would ever need, because it is not something that can be tampered with, once it was confirmed.  Wink

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January 31, 2017, 06:27:38 PM
 #8

This is true. It is one of the reasons the government it's so scared about BTC. I am just a new member, also I have just some months "eating info" to put it into practice. So far I can say We really need to open up somehow BTC. I mean make it more achievable for more users. So far the only concern I have is the level of technical knowledge you need to get things right.
Somebody told me once: "If you can explain something to your grandma, then you can tell it to everyone, and they will get it"

It should be like a division of tech people and a division of users. So you could decide depending on your skills.

I respect every opinion, but I think keep building/designing/creating, new systems in order to protect, it would make the situation worst. Is like when you try to hide something even that you do not have a thing, somebody would think you are really hiding something and will try too go after it. I will give you my personal example. Just since 3 months ago I have been into the "crypto world", it's been easier for me because I'm engineer and a programmer. Also I heard about BTC around 2010 for the very first time, when I was in college. But at that time BTC was for me like a digital idea, not a fact. And there is the big breach what I call "poor countries cannot even afford good internet so btc will come in some years for them"
Today it is very real but I can see some "holes". This is why I believe that hiding/protecting is not the answer, maybe the answer is opening and giving it a massive usage and kicking all governments asses  Angry

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February 01, 2017, 03:02:35 PM
 #9

There is coinjoin - used by http://samouraiwallet.com/


CoinJoin is a good choice and developed based on bitcoin protocol. There is a new anonymous technology developed by Etahn Heilman, which is called TumbleBit, but it only implements on SegWit, otherwise the blockchain size ain't big enough to support TumbleBit feature. LN and TB are both awesome features, but we need to wait for SegWit implementation first.

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BuySomeBitcoins
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February 01, 2017, 04:39:08 PM
 #10

There is coinjoin - used by http://samouraiwallet.com/


CoinJoin is a good choice and developed based on bitcoin protocol. There is a new anonymous technology developed by Etahn Heilman, which is called TumbleBit, but it only implements on SegWit, otherwise the blockchain size ain't big enough to support TumbleBit feature. LN and TB are both awesome features, but we need to wait for SegWit implementation first.

Thank you for the link, I will take a deep look at the paper.


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February 01, 2017, 04:50:24 PM
 #11

The problem lies in the fact that criminals are given a capability to mix their coins very easily. Whether criminals use bitcoin mixers or not is another story. I don't see a big time criminal sending all of his money to some anonymous website but I don't know how a criminal thinks I guess.
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February 01, 2017, 05:10:30 PM
 #12

The problem lies in the fact that criminals are given a capability to mix their coins very easily. Whether criminals use bitcoin mixers or not is another story. I don't see a big time criminal sending all of his money to some anonymous website but I don't know how a criminal thinks I guess.

Funny thing is, these same criminals are using the internet.... so do we shut down the internet, because CRIMINALS use it? ....Nope,

because the internet is used for more "legal" business. The same is true for mixers... most of us is only using it to protect out financial

privacy.... If the government wants to know more about your transactions.. then they will have to use the channels afforded to them,

by the laws of their countries. { Why do they need to know how you spend your money?...they do not even know this with cash tx's }

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February 01, 2017, 05:24:29 PM
 #13

The problem lies in the fact that criminals are given a capability to mix their coins very easily. Whether criminals use bitcoin mixers or not is another story. I don't see a big time criminal sending all of his money to some anonymous website but I don't know how a criminal thinks I guess.

Funny thing is, these same criminals are using the internet.... so do we shut down the internet, because CRIMINALS use it? ....Nope,

because the internet is used for more "legal" business. The same is true for mixers... most of us is only using it to protect out financial

privacy.... If the government wants to know more about your transactions.. then they will have to use the channels afforded to them,

by the laws of their countries. { Why do they need to know how you spend your money?...they do not even know this with cash tx's }

If the government said "we're going to raid everyone's property in a certain country an wanted to publish the inventory so everyone can access it, would you not have anything you wanted to hide?
If you were a criminal, would you not instantly try to spend the stolen coins somewhere or even make more believable small transactions. If someone stole 1000000 btc and made a transaction of that to a mixer, someone's going to notice that transaction and trace it back.

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February 01, 2017, 06:32:19 PM
 #14

...

Kprawn and everybody

Yes, a solid & secure decentralized BTC mixing technology would be a great thing.  Better more than one such service.

The only I would add is that it would have to be secure and easy to use -- to attract users.
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February 01, 2017, 07:55:37 PM
 #15

Look at something we have already - decentralized bitcoin exchanges, like for example Bitsquare. It should be so good... So why I don't know anyone who uses that exchange?
If decentralized services are our future and are that good then Bitsquare should be top bitcoin exchange by far. Instead it is nothing more that less popular alternative to standard totally centralized markets.
So why decentralized mixers would be any different?
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February 02, 2017, 01:21:48 PM
 #16

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

At first, there many different ways to keep your financial privacy without mixer. Mix your coin by yourself and be happy. (there many ways how to do it)
At second,  goverment really can't know who is legal user and who not. And it just get down mixer because it's the best way for goverment.
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February 02, 2017, 01:36:45 PM
 #17

So now what for others?

Desiring for bitcoin mass adoption, bitcoin acceptance from the government and yet want a decentralized thing. Government focused much on the downsides of bitcoin rather than the advantages. But you know if you will look at the brighter picture, we really need protection that's why bitcoin or mixers must be centralized if ever bitcoin will be truly used worldwide. The mass adoption will not happen if all are not regulated.

That's why for me, Id rather like what bitcoin is today rather than it become a currency for all people. Expect regulations once it become globally used.


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February 02, 2017, 04:08:40 PM
 #18

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

At first, there many different ways to keep your financial privacy without mixer. Mix your coin by yourself and be happy. (there many ways how to do it)
At second,  goverment really can't know who is legal user and who not. And it just get down mixer because it's the best way for goverment.

Ok, enlighten us with your methods to mix coins without mixers? You said, there are MANY right? You can use monero and other

Alt coins, but they can be compromised too. You could use "fly-by-night" casinos, but those are centralized too... so I am curios to

know, how you going to do this.  Roll Eyes ... A truly anonymous/decentralized mixer service, will be our best bet.  Roll Eyes

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February 02, 2017, 07:13:17 PM
 #19

We have recently seen governments going into serious talks about clamping down on Mixer services. Their excuse is that these Mixer

services are  being used to fund terrorism and for money laundering. {the usual Bull shit excuses} The real reason is their inability to

control the financial flow of money. In many instances these Mixer services are our last option to keep our finances private.

Unfortunately, our financial privacy is linked with "bad actors" using these services and we {legal users} of these services, will have to

sacrifice our financial privacy, if this last bastions falls.

We need decentralized mixer services to protect our financial data and transactions. { Why do they need to know how much money

you have, and what you spend it on? } Anyone??

At first, there many different ways to keep your financial privacy without mixer. Mix your coin by yourself and be happy. (there many ways how to do it)
At second,  goverment really can't know who is legal user and who not. And it just get down mixer because it's the best way for goverment.

Ok, enlighten us with your methods to mix coins without mixers? You said, there are MANY right? You can use monero and other

Alt coins, but they can be compromised too. You could use "fly-by-night" casinos, but those are centralized too... so I am curios to

know, how you going to do this.  Roll Eyes ... A truly anonymous/decentralized mixer service, will be our best bet.  Roll Eyes

Make decentralized mixer it's very hard task. There must be a point (server in centralized mixer) where mixing happen. How do you make it in decentralized mixer?
Also, there many different ways to mix you coins. But i can't tell it to you or someone else. It confidencial information  Wink
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February 03, 2017, 04:38:45 AM
 #20

Look at something we have already - decentralized bitcoin exchanges, like for example Bitsquare. It should be so good... So why I don't know anyone who uses that exchange?
If decentralized services are our future and are that good then Bitsquare should be top bitcoin exchange by far. Instead it is nothing more that less popular alternative to standard totally centralized markets.
So why decentralized mixers would be any different?
Majority of bitcoin traders don't know about bitsquare and as they are still in beta phase big traders don't like to risk trading high amount of bitcoin there. They don't have enough fund to have active development and bug fixing, so development process is really slow.

Along with this there is some technical difficulty on using bitsquare, trading there is way different than trading in normal platform.

Decentralized mixer may not work like mixers we have right now or atleast it can't be instant mixing. We may have to wait for longer period to get someone else who will try to mix his coins and system can send us those coins rather than from mixer's cold bitcoin address.

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