This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

[myrkul]

No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.

Awesome. Please implement this as soon as possible, I look forward to laughing as your society collapses.

[kokjo]

No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.

Awesome. Please implement this as soon as possible, I look forward to laughing as your society collapses.

why would i collapse? please explain.

[kokjo]

your AnCap society is just as much a fairyland as mine NoPP one.

[myrkul]

No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.

Awesome. Please implement this as soon as possible, I look forward to laughing as your society collapses.

why would [it] collapse? please explain.

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

[kokjo]

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

[kokjo]

the way i see you AnCap people:

[myrkul]

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?

[kokjo]

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

children: no.
younger siblings: yes. (and yes they are annoying)

and yet i have this discussion with you.

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?

then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.

[myrkul]

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

children: no.
younger siblings: yes. (and yes they are annoying)

So, who taught your younger sibling "Mine" when they were two? Was it you? Your mother?

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?

then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.

What if nobody ever wants to clean it, because now it's too dirty?

[kokjo]

Well, first, "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff." - Frank Zappa

not true, we are trained from the beginning of our lives by the society to "like to own stuff", its a construction.

You've clearly never had a child. Or a younger sibling for that matter.

children: no.
younger siblings: yes. (and yes they are annoying)

So, who taught your younger sibling "Mine" when they were two? Was it you? Your mother?

ME!!! (and my mother of course)

your point being?

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?

then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.

What if nobody ever wants to clean it, because now it's too dirty?

who would do it in a capitalistic society? what if there was a insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?

someone will always in the end clean the toilet! it is no big deal.

[myrkul]

your point being?

That it's a developmental stage, and if children were indoctrinated with it, presumably some would not exhibit that stage. Yet, all do.

But let's assume you manage to get a group of people together that all rejected personal property.

Who's going to clean the toilets?

the people who shit in them, just as now.

OK, so everyone cleans the toilet they just used.

What if someone doesn't?

then someone else does, when its gets too dirty.

What if nobody ever wants to clean it, because now it's too dirty?

who would do it in a capitalistic society? what if there was a insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?

someone will always in the end clean the toilet! it is no big deal.

Apparently you don't have these people in your country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janitor

The idea is that you pay him enough to go around and clean all the toilets (and floors, walls, etc) daily, so that they do not get too dirty.

And you see, it is a pretty big deal, because these are exactly the sorts of problems that destroy socialist societies. It's almost never the big things. It's the tiny little details that do it.

[kokjo]

your point being?

That it's a developmental stage, and if children were indoctrinated with it, presumably some would not exhibit that stage. Yet, all do.

point taken. but its also human nature to make wars...

Apparently you don't have these people in your country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janitor

The idea is that you pay him enough to go around and clean all the toilets (and floors, walls, etc) daily, so that they do not get too dirty.

And you see, it is a pretty big deal, because these are exactly the sorts of problems that destroy socialist societies. It's almost never the big things. It's the tiny little details that do it.

you did see the "insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?" part didn't you.

anyways, the janitor have not yet been around my toilet. i have done it myself.

[kokjo]

pic related?

[myrkul]

your point being?

That it's a developmental stage, and if children were indoctrinated with it, presumably some would not exhibit that stage. Yet, all do.

point taken. but its also human nature to make wars...

Actually, no. It is human nature to occasionally become violent. To make war requires governments.

Apparently you don't have these people in your country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janitor

The idea is that you pay him enough to go around and clean all the toilets (and floors, walls, etc) daily, so that they do not get too dirty.

And you see, it is a pretty big deal, because these are exactly the sorts of problems that destroy socialist societies. It's almost never the big things. It's the tiny little details that do it.

you did see the "insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?" part didn't you.

You did see the "pay him enough that he is willing to do it before it gets too dirty" part, didn't you? And clearly, since people are willing to take that job for pay, your worry is unfounded.

anyways, the janitor have not yet been around my toilet. i have done it myself.

That's great! Would you like a cookie?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

No, we currently have some private property laws in Denmark(well, there are bikes you can lend for a small deposit that you get back when you park it again.).

We are currently discussing a fairyland where the concept of private property does not exist, ownership have no meaning, and people will look at you as if you just escaped the mental institution if you speak about it.

Awesome. Please implement this as soon as possible, I look forward to laughing as your society collapses.

There have been several attempted implementations of these ideas in the 20th century, resulting in over 100 million deaths.  No laughing matter.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

your point being?

That it's a developmental stage, and if children were indoctrinated with it, presumably some would not exhibit that stage. Yet, all do.

point taken. but its also human nature to make wars...

Actually, no. It is human nature to occasionally become violent. To make war requires governments.

Apparently you don't have these people in your country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janitor

The idea is that you pay him enough to go around and clean all the toilets (and floors, walls, etc) daily, so that they do not get too dirty.

And you see, it is a pretty big deal, because these are exactly the sorts of problems that destroy socialist societies. It's almost never the big things. It's the tiny little details that do it.

you did see the "insufficient amount of money in the world to pay for it?" part didn't you.

You did see the "pay him enough that he is willing to do it before it gets too dirty" part, didn't you? And clearly, since people are willing to take that job for pay, your worry is unfounded.

anyways, the janitor have not yet been around my toilet. i have done it myself.

That's great! Would you like a cookie?

Arguing with socialists is a waste of time, but I do admire your intestinal fortitude.  In general, if you ask one "How many fingers am I holding up?", they will answer that " 'Up' is a social construct", or "That depends on what you mean by 'holding' ", or other such nonsense.

[myrkul]

Arguing with socialists is a waste of time, but I do admire your intestinal fortitude.  In general, if you ask one "How many fingers am I holding up?", they will answer that " 'Up' is a social construct", or "That depends on what you mean by 'holding' ", or other such nonsense.

Oh, my god, you don't even know how accurately that describes my conversations with Kokjo. Of course, if I turn it back around on him, sparks start coming out of his ears, that's always funny to watch.

[Mike Christ]

"That depends on what you mean by 'holding' "

lmao that's exactly spot on.  Let's not forget the part about being a brain in a vat.

[myrkul]

"That depends on what you mean by 'holding' "

lmao that's exactly spot on.  Let's not forget the part about being a brain in a vat.

You want to see the sparks? Very worthwhile conversation starts here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180345.msg1896675#msg1896675

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Arguing with socialists is a waste of time, but I do admire your intestinal fortitude.  In general, if you ask one "How many fingers am I holding up?", they will answer that " 'Up' is a social construct", or "That depends on what you mean by 'holding' ", or other such nonsense.

Oh, my god, you don't even know how accurately that describes my conversations with Kokjo. Of course, if I turn it back around on him, sparks start coming out of his ears, that's always funny to watch.

I know, I read the exchange.  On of the first things that those who impose socialism do is start messing with the meaning of words, look at what the left has done to the word "Liberal", or "Progressive", or making up qualifiers for words that essentially negate the whole meaning like "Social Justice", or "Human Rights" or "Minority Rights".  It's SOP for authoritarians to divide and conquer the population into disparate groups, where as we AnCaps want to unify the population in the common goal of permitting each individual to seek wealth and otherwise do as they please, as long as they don't infringe on the freedom of others.

Even though you and I disagree wrt IP rights, I'm willing to pay a bit more for an arbitration company that defends my IP rights, you're willing to pay a bit more for the freedom to copy and exploit data, and it all works out in the end.