This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

[Stampbit]

If bitcoins volatility is the result of a free market give me a banking cartel and ill give you my coins.

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[FreedomEqualsRiches]

For the third time:
Markets existed in Ireland when it had no state, and in Iceland, when it had free-market law.  So your premise that "some non-voluntary monopoly (e.g.: a government) might be necessary in order to create suitable conditions for markets." has already been dis-proven by history.

And then they invented alcohol.
Don't their tribal mini-kingdoms count as governments? Seems like you're arguing semantics.

Voluntary, non-contiguous tribal mini-kingdoms. ie, not a non-voluntary monopoly. 

Gee, what a strange society it must have been... So many people 'volunteered' to be peasants, and hardly anyone 'volunteered' to be king.... Too much inbreeding?

Once again, you imply that AnCap = theft and/or lawlessness.  There is no doubt that you are being disingenuous.

[myrkul]

For the third time:
Markets existed in Ireland when it had no state, and in Iceland, when it had free-market law.  So your premise that "some non-voluntary monopoly (e.g.: a government) might be necessary in order to create suitable conditions for markets." has already been dis-proven by history.

And then they invented alcohol.
Don't their tribal mini-kingdoms count as governments? Seems like you're arguing semantics.

Voluntary, non-contiguous tribal mini-kingdoms. ie, not a non-voluntary monopoly. 

Gee, what a strange society it must have been... So many people 'volunteered' to be peasants, and hardly anyone 'volunteered' to be king.... Too much inbreeding?

Odd that today, so many people would volunteer to be employees, and so few to be employers... Too much inbreeding?

And still waiting on this:

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So they do. We've established communication is one, and that a State is not needed for communication. What other foundations are required for Markets, and how do they require a State?

[Rassah]

Gee it must suck being a government. If you interfere -- you're evil. If you don't interfere -- you're evil.

Come to think of it, the Chinese government seems to have a strong Libertarian streak. As I pointed out, they're obviously trying to keep their interference to a minimum, lest all those pesky regulations get in the way of capitalists being profitable.

Chinese government is very far from being libertarian. It's not that theory are trying to keep interference to a minimum. Quite the opposite. The government is very nationalistic, and wants to show the world that China is a powerful producer. It wants to show off the country's wealth. So they set up factories, which the government owns or sponsors (remember, they're still communist), and directs them to be as productive as possible, damn pollution and the local population. If regulations would prevent them from showing how powerfully wealthy the country is, they just change them.

But we are living with a government that has laws and regulations. Sadly, this company that's polluting your air is not breaking laws, and is complying with regulations, likely because they bought a politician, and wrote the regulations themselves. And if you go and protest them or try to fight them with sabotage our violence, they will be defended by government police. Police which, by the way, you paid for with your taxes. So, they write the laws, and get you to pay for that law enforcement yourself. Sweet deal for them, but sucks for you.

You know this for sure? Even if that's the case, that "government" entity (which consists of millions of people) must be acting as a group of cooperating security agencies working on behalf of the capitalists. If the slaves get out and protest instead of working, that could be a breach of the voluntary contracts they signed.

Yes, I do. We know that police closely monitors protests and quells riots. We know that we pay taxes to pay for police. China isn't working on behalf of capitalists as stated above. The government just wants to show off. There, if the slaves protest, they don't get subdued by police, they get carted off to jail as enemies of state. If the slaves protest and breach their contracts, then... What? A contact is just an agreement. In China and statist countries, the slaves pay the salaries of their own guards who force them to get back to work. In AnCap, the company would have to pay for it's own guards. It's cheaper to keep the slaves happy than to keep them subdued 24/7.

[myrkul]

Odd that today, so many people would volunteer to be employees, and so few to be employers... Too much inbreeding?

I'm going back to ignoring you until go to fucking rehab and start talking sense.

Just because the point went over your head doesn't mean that I'm not talking sense. Maybe you can have someone explain it to you.
In the meantime:

Still waiting on this:

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So they do. We've established communication is one, and that a State is not needed for communication. What other foundations are required for Markets, and how do they require a State?

[hawkeye]

Odd that today, so many people would volunteer to be employees, and so few to be employers... Too much inbreeding?

I'm going back to ignoring you until you go to fucking rehab and start talking sense.

For those who aren't Australian
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spit%20the%20Dummy

[No 1]

Buy something, Sell something. Get Bitcoin ->> repeat cycle.... Sounds like the best market ever seen

[Anon136]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

[kokjo]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

Look, kok, you have very little intuitive understanding of how markets work, as indicated by your "Dog-eat-Dog" mentality.  Have you even sold goods in a market?  Sounds to me like you collect state dole, so it's doubtful that you have even sold your labor to pay for your bread.

[Anon136]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

The point is that the state isnt providing enforcement of contracts or the catching of criminals in the bitcoin community yet we still have an economy none the less. So markets are not dependent upon enforcement of contracts and catching of criminals. They do however depend on communication, something that the internet provides but could also be achieved verbally if we all lived in proximity to one another and the state is not needed for communication.

[kokjo]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

The point is that the state isnt providing enforcement of contracts or the catching of criminals in the bitcoin community yet we still have an economy none the less. So markets are not dependent upon enforcement of contracts and catching of criminals. They do however depend on communication, something that the internet provides but could also be achieved verbally if we all lived in proximity to one another and the state is not needed for communication.

mybitcoin, GOXED, bitcoinica, scammerboard, pirate.

Going pretty good, don't you think?

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

[hawkeye]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

[kokjo]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

no, the governement hunts scammers and hold them to justice.

governements can be good. <- this is what you people fail to understand.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

no, the governement hunts scammers and hold them to justice.

governements can be good. <- this is what you people fail to understand.

The government does nothing to prevent scammers.  Look at the 2008 meltdown, all the government did then was take taxpayer's (ie mine) money and gave it to the big banks.

[hawkeye]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

no, the governement hunts scammers and hold them to justice.

governements can be good. <- this is what you people fail to understand.

No, the government institutionalizes scamming.  It calls it laws and regulations.  And then scamming is now capable on a much larger scale than otherwise, because people are trained to think it is valid.

Governments can be good but rarely are.  It's just not in their best interests most of the time.   Like any monopoly, they give an illusion of good service.  In their case they give an illusion of protection.  They don't have to put much effort into it because they don't have any competitors.

[Rassah]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

no, the governement hunts scammers and hold them to justice.

governements can be good. <- this is what you people fail to understand.

Government is not a nebulous god-like entity, government is people who decided to give themselves extra powers with consent of those they rule over. So if people are generally bad, corrupt, and can be bribed, government is generally bad, corrupt, and can be bribed. If people are generally good, then they don't need government to interact peacefully with each other in the first place. Government is just whatever you think people are like, plus extra powers, plus incentives to be bribed in return for political favors.

[Anon136]

Markets still require foundations on which they can be built.

So how do you explain the bitcoin community? there is no foundation for our economy here, we have no governments to enforce bitcoin related contracts, no police to catch bitcoin fraudsters, yet somehow trade miraculously happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

The point is that the state isnt providing enforcement of contracts or the catching of criminals in the bitcoin community yet we still have an economy none the less. So markets are not dependent upon enforcement of contracts and catching of criminals. They do however depend on communication, something that the internet provides but could also be achieved verbally if we all lived in proximity to one another and the state is not needed for communication.

mybitcoin, GOXED, bitcoinica, scammerboard, pirate.

Going pretty good, don't you think?

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Jesus fuckin christ, why is it statists constantly strawman. seriously you could try atleast mixing up your logical fallacies try some other logical fallacy every now and then.

pointing out the obvious fact that scamers exist in the bitcoin community is not an argument that markets cant form with out a governmental foundation or that the bitcoin economy is not an example of markets forming without a governmental foundation. Which if you will remember is what we were discussing, what we were not discussing is whether or not there are scamers in the bitcoin community, which there obviously are, no shit.

How would you like it if i tried to respond to your points by saying "no you are wrong my dog is not white its brown" then proceeded to claim that i won the discussion by producing a picture that proved unequivocally that my dog was infact brown.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

im waiting for government involvement to stabilize things, have a nice day.

Sounds great.  Then we can get back to how it should be.  A monopoly system with a group of privileged bankers.

no, the governement hunts scammers and hold them to justice.

governements can be good. <- this is what you people fail to understand.

The government does nothing to prevent scammers.  Look at the 2008 meltdown, all the government did then was take taxpayer's (ie mine) money and gave it to the big banks.

So your American government happens to suck. That's fascinating! So, how does that refute kokjo's point?

The Europeans and Canadians did the same thing.

[TomUnderSea]

...
How would you like it if i tried to respond to your points by saying "no you are wrong my dog is not white its brown" then proceeded to claim that i won the discussion by producing a picture that proved unequivocally that my dog was infact white.

You are wrong.