-

[kaerf]

Great.

I missed the 0.1.3.33 upgrade, and at the same time, BTC-e appeared to have missed it too.

I ended up mining on a forked chain, depositing to BTC-e (which they accepted, also being on my fork), and selling for BTC.

Now that they've upgraded, they have locked my account for withdrawls, and say that I now owe them 6921 in "double-spent" TRC.

I "fought" to have my fork win, but I gave up after it fell 200 blocks behind.

It looks like I'm not the only one.  I've seen lots of other BTC-e users posting saying that their accounts are also locked for withdrawls.  They probably have no clue the fork even occurred.


Now I didn't see this 0.1.3.36 announcement until now.  I wonder if BTC-e will see it in time this time...


IMO, pushing out a mandatory update with a 2-3 day window to apply it is asking for this kind of trouble.

Same for me.

[niteryder]

Ugg, was so pissed when I saw all my coins vanish.

Anyway, 38 is already out.

[roy7]

I expressed my concerns to BTC-E about coins not appearing on the web site even after 150+ confirms but support just told me TRC was having issues and to give it more time. I finally wrote back, spelled out the fork situation and the .33 mandatory update, and asked them to reply and confirm what version of terracoind they were running. I told them I was worried what was happening to people buying and selling TRC for BTC if the exchange was on a forked chain.

They never replied to that one, but within like 30 minutes my coins appeared so they must have went and upgraded. I thought I'd read the dev did contact all exchange site owners about the update. So it might be BTC-E's issue for not bothering to upgrade their daemon. Plus you'd assume the exchanges would be on all of the announce mailing lists, since staying up to date is critical for them.

[Moray]

Same for me. Forked chain - BTC-E want "refund". They gladly accepted my coins, took their commision. They shoudn't make us buy TRC now, it's not fair, after the price tripled. I made 0.21 btc from the forked chain, if I "refund" them- I'll have to pay 0.53 btc. Fair ?

[Mastergerund]

Any particular reason you don't close your BTC-e account and just trade elsewhere? Since they are clearly at fault, I don't see any ethical reason not to walk away from it.

[fcmatt]

isn't the true person at fault the one who solo mined using an outdated client or used a pool with an outdated client?

i mined trc at coinotron and sold at btc-e.. i can login and i see no problem. it seems coinotron upgraded. and btc-e not
upgrading was irrelevant.

right?

[roy7]

isn't the true person at fault the one who solo mined using an outdated client or used a pool with an outdated client?

Well, two different issues, with plenty of blame to go around.

If you were solo mining with the wrong client, that's on you for mining into a forked chain.
If you were pool mining into a forked chain, that's on the pool.

If you transfer forked coins into an exchange that is on the right chain, they would simply never show up. Good job exchange.

If you transfer forked coins into a forked exchange, then you sell them for USD/BTC and things will get ugly when the exchange eventually upgrades to correct chain. Bad job exchange, but you or the pool are also partially to blame for mining forked coins in the first place.

If you transfer valid coins into an exchange that is on the forked chain, they would simply never show up. This is what happened to me. So no harm done to me unless the exchange never updated to correct chain so they saw they owed me coins. (Well, there's also opportunity cost for price I could have sold at went down.) Once they finally updated and joined correct chain, my coins appeared.

The highest priority is for exchanges to be on correct chain. Way too much fallout for many users and potentially whole market as trades/prices are based on invalid coins.
Next is for pools to be on correct chain, so you don't hurt your (few, many) miners.
Lately is for solo miner to be on correct chain, they are only hurting themselves.

[Bogart]

Any particular reason you don't close your BTC-e account and just trade elsewhere? Since they are clearly at fault, I don't see any ethical reason not to walk away from it.

I could do that.  I'd lose about 3.2 BTC that's in the account.

But I like being able to trade on BTC-e.  They have far more volume than vircurex, and far more currencies than mtgox.  I could open a new BTC-e account, but they might figure out that it's me and lock that one too and seize its assets.

Plus I don't want to piss off the Russians. 

I knew what was happening at the time, with the fork.  I had kinda hoped I could have my fork win (by being longer) and be accepted by 0.1.3.33, validating all those coins and many more still in my wallet, but that didn't happen.

I think I'll mine the TRC and pay BTC-e off over time.

I don't know precisely where fault lies, but BTC-e (or its users) potentially face a very real loss over this.  There were users on the other side of those trades expecting to receive TRC for their purchases.  TRC which BTC-e accepted for deposit, but now no longer has in their wallets due to it being "forked away".

[Mastergerund]

It sounds like your best bet is to do the right thing and pay off your "debt." It's unfortunate, but it happens. Maybe you will get lucky and the exchange rates will move in your favor while you are trying to mine them and you can just pay it off early.

[kaerf]

I don't know precisely where fault lies, but BTC-e (or its users) potentially face a very real loss over this.  There were users on the other side of those trades expecting to receive TRC for their purchases.  TRC which BTC-e accepted for deposit, but now no longer has in their wallets due to it being "forked away".

Because the TRC were forked away, BTC-E should reverse the trades. Those who bought the TRC don't have valid TRC...the forked away TRC cannot be transfered out of the exchange. If BTC-e still has those TRC in the system then they are letting people trade invalid coins and there is an inbalance in system.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

These patches do nothing, as soon as difficulty drops a miner with a lot of GH/s exploits this difficulty bug to mine at low diff, then when the difficulty increases by a factor of 3, he stops and waits.

Just look at the blocks at diff 5k

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

It seems you are still on old abandoned blockchain and / or have wrong miner setup. Also, network still not passed block 110322 required for new patch
to kick in so you should not judge on how good or bad newest difficulty retargeting works.

I installed 0.1.3-38 from the official website

getinfo yields

{
"version" : 80000,
"protocolversion" : 70001,
"walletversion" : 60000,
"balance" : 0.99000000,
"blocks" : 109377,
"timeoffset" : 214,
"connections" : 8,
"proxy" : "",
"difficulty" : 123013.74119264,
"testnet" : false,
"keypoololdest" : 1351971027,
"keypoolsize" : 101,
"paytxfee" : 0.00000000,
"errors" : ""
}

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Where are you mining anyway? Switch to Coinotron TRC for a while and check if mining works properly with such setup. For me it works fine.

I never said I was having trouble mining, I was saying that it's still being exploited with a person with a lot of hashing power. He mines till the difficulty goes up by like x10, waits for it to drop to 5k, and mine again. Then you will see a classical dump on the market. This miner likely has a few thousand blocks, if he sells those, he would get a nifty chunk of btc, which is a few grand.

[crazy_rabbit]

Where are you mining anyway? Switch to Coinotron TRC for a while and check if mining works properly with such setup. For me it works fine.

I never said I was having trouble mining, I was saying that it's still being exploited with a person with a lot of hashing power. He mines till the difficulty goes up by like x10, waits for it to drop to 5k, and mine again. Then you will see a classical dump on the market. This miner likely has a few thousand blocks, if he sells those, he would get a nifty chunk of btc, which is a few grand.

Yeah, I mean there is nothing wrong with this technically- he is mining and selling. But it's tricky I agree....

[roy7]

Not much can be done about that, except more people mine so the impact of any one person entering/leaving is lowered. But still you just have to figure, if you mine for 24 hours, is the expected reward better or worse than mining BTC. The calculators out there right now aren't the best for rapidly changing difficulty levels, but great for things where difficulty only rarely changes (ie: bitcoin). I'd like to see graphs on historical profitability levels to make a decision about TRC farming, other than just random point in times when I happen to pull up web page.

[Bogart]

I don't know precisely where fault lies, but BTC-e (or its users) potentially face a very real loss over this.  There were users on the other side of those trades expecting to receive TRC for their purchases.  TRC which BTC-e accepted for deposit, but now no longer has in their wallets due to it being "forked away".

Because the TRC were forked away, BTC-E should reverse the trades. Those who bought the TRC don't have valid TRC...the forked away TRC cannot be transfered out of the exchange. If BTC-e still has those TRC in the system then they are letting people trade invalid coins and there is an inbalance in system.

I do believe that is the situation.  If BTC-e were to reverse the trades, I would owe them BTC instead of TRC.

I would prefer to owe them the BTC, actually, since I sold the TRC around 0.00225.  To buy it back now would cost about double the BTC.

I "fought" to have my fork win, but I gave up after it fell 200 blocks behind.

Even if you went 200 blocks ahead, you would be banned by all new nodes the moment you would attempt to publish your blocks to legit chain.

Why?  What would have made the nodes reject my chain?

These patches do nothing, as soon as difficulty drops a miner with a lot of GH/s exploits this difficulty bug to mine at low diff, then when the difficulty increases by a factor of 3, he stops and waits.

I believe the past 2 TRC updates have made efforts to "fix" the oscillating difficulty, and that 0.1.3.36 and/or .38 make further attempts towards that.

Note that previous sha256-based altchains have only been able to solve this problem by implementing merged-mining with the BTC blockchain.

[coinotron]

Coinotron is on new version

[LightningFury]

settings for solo mining with cgminer?