Boston Marathon Explosions

[FirstAscent]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=moon-landing-faked-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

[MikeH]

so what do you believe when it comes to whistleblowers?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trWcqxrQgcc

there are plenty of people that put their jobs and reputation on the line for no apparent gain in regards to events like 9/11 but it seems you choose to ignore them or don't even know they exist through blindly rejecting the conspiracy and not doing any research.



"The mocking of conspiracy theories in the American press and Western media is based on the simplistic argument that reason is on the side of the government and officialdom, not on the fringe of society and civilization.

Anti-conspiracy proponents ludicrously claim that conspiracy theorists are prey to paranoia and irrational thinking without explaining their own faulty reasoning. They put a huge emphasis on labels and none on facts. But they’re not unique. Apparently, name-calling is enough to win a court case in a 21st century American courtroom."

[MikeH]

Funny, just reading some random articles - Senator McCain sounds just like Charlie Sheen and others talking about 9/11 here:
http://rt.com/usa/mccain-hagel-benghazi-attack-522/

"Of the information concerning the deaths of four brave Americans," McCain fired back. "The information has not been forthcoming. You obviously believe that it has. I know that it hasn't. And I'll be glad to send you a list of the questions that have not been answered, including 'What did the president do and who did he talk to the night of the attack on Benghazi?'"

what a nut!

[Rassah]

Funny, just reading some random articles - Senator McCain sounds just like Charlie Sheen and others talking about 9/11 here:
http://rt.com/usa/mccain-hagel-benghazi-attack-522/

"Of the information concerning the deaths of four brave Americans," McCain fired back. "The information has not been forthcoming. You obviously believe that it has. I know that it hasn't. And I'll be glad to send you a list of the questions that have not been answered, including 'What did the president do and who did he talk to the night of the attack on Benghazi?'"

What in the actual fuck!? McCain was specifically invited to meetings where Benghazi would be discussed, including closed-door meetings where they would discuss secret stuff, and he HIMSELF refused to go, and now he's claiming that the "information isn't forthcoming?" Who the hell is to blame for not geting the information, when it was offered MULTIPLE TIMES, if not him? What a f'in dumbass...


As for conspiracy theorists, they're idiots for the exact same reason religious apologists and science deniers are: They start from a conclusion (it was an inside job, or god did it, or it's all a hoax), and work their way backwards, specifically looking for things that support their hypothesis while ignoring everything else. Rational, scientific-minded people start with "I don't know," and take all evidence into consideration before coming to a conclusion.

[myrkul]

As for conspiracy theorists, they're idiots for the exact same reason religious apologists and science deniers are: They start from a conclusion (it was an inside job, or god did it, or it's all a hoax), and work their way backwards, specifically looking for things that support their hypothesis while ignoring everything else. Rational, scientific-minded people start with "I don't know," and take all evidence into consideration before coming to a conclusion.

Which makes people who believe the official story without question just as bad, doesn't it?

[Rassah]

As for conspiracy theorists, they're idiots for the exact same reason religious apologists and science deniers are: They start from a conclusion (it was an inside job, or god did it, or it's all a hoax), and work their way backwards, specifically looking for things that support their hypothesis while ignoring everything else. Rational, scientific-minded people start with "I don't know," and take all evidence into consideration before coming to a conclusion.

Which makes people who believe the official story without question just as bad, doesn't it?

You have people who don't question, who stay silent. We don't really know about those, since they are silent, but they are just as bad, yes
You have people who do question, but since they don't have answers yet, they stay silent. Or people who already questioned, researched, and came to the most plausible conclusion (occam's raizor), and they also have no reason to speak up, because they know what they need to know
You have people who start with questioning, reach a conclusion, and then start to research, looking for things to support their conclusions. Those are usually the most loud and obnoxious, and stupid/misinformed/ignorant types that we hear from the most. They're the conspiracy theorists, the fire and brimstone preachers and protestors, the AM radio hosts, etc.

The last group is just vocally stupid, so they're easy to spot, and they're all idiots, no exceptions.
The first two groups are just more difficult to spot and discern between the stupid sheep and the smart silent types.

[myrkul]

The last group is just vocally stupid, so they're easy to spot, and they're all idiots, no exceptions.
The first two groups are just more difficult to spot and discern between the stupid sheep and the smart silent types.

What about the loud stupid sheep? 

[Richy_T]

I'm just waiting for more info. I don't trust the govt much but this doesn't pass the smell test for some kind of conspiracy but on the other hand, there are some things which just don't seem to add up. *shrug*.

[Rassah]

The last group is just vocally stupid, so they're easy to spot, and they're all idiots, no exceptions.
The first two groups are just more difficult to spot and discern between the stupid sheep and the smart silent types.

What about the loud stupid sheep? 

Again, how can you discern loud stupid sheep from loud people who did the research and know what they are talking about, but who are concerned about idiots spreading idiocy?

Oh yeah, you can review their research and scientific analysis. Sadly, the vocally stupid of the third group think science is "just a far" made up to confuse us.

Personally, I haven't heard too many sheep being loud about things told to them they didn't question. Even Fox News that regurgitates government propaganda is more of a third category than the first.

[Rassah]

By the way, one of my coworkers is in on this conspiracy. She is claiming that her cousin was one of the people severely injured in that explosion, and put up posters with info and pictures, asking for donations to help with the hospital bills. But, since the whole thing was staged, obviously she's just scamming everyone here, right? 

[myrkul]

By the way, one of my coworkers is in on this conspiracy. She is claiming that her cousin was one of the people severely injured in that explosion, and put up posters with info and pictures, asking for donations to help with the hospital bills. But, since the whole thing was staged, obviously she's just scamming everyone here, right? 

I believe the current conspiracy theory goes that the second bomb was real, or some such. As I said before, it's much more likely (Occam's razor again) that TPTB are simply making good use of a real incident, or at worst, trained and equipped a couple of patsies. The latter theory would require such a minor modification to their usual SOP that it's actually kinda scary. (Normally, the bomb is fake.)

A third, "mixed" theory is: They were going to "foil" a "terrorist plot" to bomb the Boston marathon, but the operation got out of control, the guys made real bombs, actually set them off, and the people involved panicked. I think this one fits all the available data best.

[Rassah]

I think the thing that fits all available data best is that one crazy guy had his brain turned to mush by religious extremism, convinced his younger brother to play along, and they made bombs and detonated them in a highly populated area during a highly populated event, which, due to having a lot of people around, needed extra security to police. Note how there are also larger than normal police presences during marches and peaceful gatherings, but no one is claiming that those police are fake, or that they are there to stage a bombing.

[myrkul]

I think the thing that fits all available data best is that one crazy guy had his brain turned to mush by religious extremism, convinced his younger brother to play along, and they made bombs and detonated them in a highly populated area during a highly populated event, which, due to having a lot of people around, needed extra security to police. Note how there are also larger than normal police presences during marches and peaceful gatherings, but no one is claiming that those police are fake, or that they are there to stage a bombing.

The two men involved had been on the FBI's "radar" for some time, yet they still asked the public to identify them.
FBI regularly does these sorts of stings, where they find a susceptible individual, and convince him to try and blow something up. They then give him a fake bomb to plant, and a cell number to call, or a button to push, and tell him that doing so will blow up that bomb. When he does so, they arrest him for attempting to blow up whatever he planted the "bomb" at.
When you think about it, it is inevitable that, sooner or later, one of these things is going to get away from them. Perhaps this is that case.

[MikeH]

when false flags don't fly  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgv39GtcJ0

[Rassah]

The two men involved had been on the FBI's "radar" for some time, yet they still asked the public to identify them.

Hundreds of people are on FBI's radar. Couldn't a simpler explanation be that they just needed public's help to identify which ones out of the hundreds are the ones they are looking for?

FBI regularly does these sorts of stings, where they find a susceptible individual, and convince him to try and blow something up. They then give him a fake bomb to plant, and a cell number to call, or a button to push, and tell him that doing so will blow up that bomb. When he does so, they arrest him for attempting to blow up whatever he planted the "bomb" at.
When you think about it, it is inevitable that, sooner or later, one of these things is going to get away from them. Perhaps this is that case.

Yeah, I'm aware. There have been a few cases of this, but not too many, unless they keep it secret, which would be pointless, since the whole point of that BS is to show the public that they are doing their job and are needed. So, maybe this was that, maybe this was just people acting on their own. I would say we don't know. Not sure if it's relevant, either, since the only thing FBI would have been able to contribute was to give them information and materials, but they can just as easily get it off the internet. It's intent and action of the bombers that counts.

[Rassah]

when false flags don't fly  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgv39GtcJ0

I fully agree, we shouldn't freak out and overreact with giving government too much power in hopes of gaining protection when this stuff happens. Way more damage from 9/11 came from us passing rights-infringing homeland security laws and going to stupid wars, than was done by the 9/11 hijackers themselves. But that doesn't require conspiracies.

[myrkul]

I would say we don't know. Not sure if it's relevant, either, since the only thing FBI would have been able to contribute was to give them information and materials, but they can just as easily get it off the internet. It's intent and action of the bombers that counts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

[Rassah]

I would say we don't know. Not sure if it's relevant, either, since the only thing FBI would have been able to contribute was to give them information and materials, but they can just as easily get it off the internet. It's intent and action of the bombers that counts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

Does this make good people decide to do bad things? Or does this make bad people decide that it's easier for them to do bad things than they thought it would be?

[FirstAscent]

so what do you believe when it comes to whistleblowers?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trWcqxrQgcc

there are plenty of people that put their jobs and reputation on the line for no apparent gain in regards to events like 9/11 but it seems you choose to ignore them or don't even know they exist through blindly rejecting the conspiracy and not doing any research.



"The mocking of conspiracy theories in the American press and Western media is based on the simplistic argument that reason is on the side of the government and officialdom, not on the fringe of society and civilization.

Anti-conspiracy proponents ludicrously claim that conspiracy theorists are prey to paranoia and irrational thinking without explaining their own faulty reasoning. They put a huge emphasis on labels and none on facts. But they’re not unique. Apparently, name-calling is enough to win a court case in a 21st century American courtroom."

Investigative journalism is not what conspiracy theorists do. If only conspiracy theorists would engage in investigative journalism.

As for your last two paragraphs: The mocking of conspiracy theories is not due to the simplistic argument you've stated. Read the article I posted.

[myrkul]

I would say we don't know. Not sure if it's relevant, either, since the only thing FBI would have been able to contribute was to give them information and materials, but they can just as easily get it off the internet. It's intent and action of the bombers that counts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

Does this make good people decide to do bad things? Or does this make bad people decide that it's easier for them to do bad things than they thought it would be?

It makes easily swayed and manipulated people decide to do something they wouldn't have done on their own. You'd be surprised what power the phrase "the greater good" has over even the most moral of weak minds.