Requesting proof of trade between Zepher and TMAN[Zepher engaging in fake trades

[Zepher]

I think that Zepher might be breaking the law. I got this PM from him:

!!! WARNING: This user is a newbie. If you are expecting a message from a more veteran member, then this is an imposter !!!
Hi,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1786017.0

If I buy your BTCC coins for 4.425 BTC then will I need to pay any customs/import taxes/duties?

How quick will UPS ship to Seattle, WA?

Thank you,
xxxxx

Hey there,

I ship these as "Titanium Coins" or "Collectible Coins" or "Novelty Tokens" (you get the point!) with a value of $25 each. There is no mention of the word "Bitcoin". I must have shipped 100 packages containing loaded coins, and not one has ever been stopped. You won't have an issue.

So, to answer your questions, no, you won't have anything extra to pay apart from the 4.425 BTC as I don't declare Bitcoin value.

I will ship these on Monday via UPS Express 48hr, so you will have these by end of day on Wednesday. I'll actually pay that bit extra to guarantee delivery by 10:30am on Wednesday morning. So, you'll have these pretty quick

Check my feedback so you know you are dealing with a serious collector and trader, and someone who has competency in what they do. I am also part of the Default Trust (DT) on the forum under Blazed.

Hope that answers everything (and more haha).

Kind Regards,

xxxx

I think he might be lying to me because he posted this thread :/

I don't want to get in trouble for any kind of tax evasion or anything like that.

I told you in a separate message several hours later that I would not do this for you, I am not doing it for anyone. I no longer ship to the USA. I considered what I had already posted, and am sticking to it. My reshipping to the US is over. By the way, this was a personal sale, and not a case of me reshipping items.

As for your "getting in trouble for tax evasion", you would have had the choice of having them declared full value, or just the basic material value.

In the first case, you would be fully insured, and would likely have customs and import fees to pay. In the second, you would not be covered insurance wise, and the items would be declared at their basic metal value.

Why you felt the need to post my name in a public forum, is very annoying, and it breaks my privacy. I would appreciate that being edited out. As a result, I will be tagging you for doing that. You didn't NEED to post that - hell, you didn't need to post anything, because I told you I wasn't doing it anyway. I'll post the PM soon.

Hi again,

After further thought I have decided that I won't be shipping to the US, not for this kind of value anyway. Sorry about that. It appears that I have a buyer but I had changed my mind anyway. Again - apologies.

Good luck with getting a nice coin by BTCC.

Zepher

Edit: Can't help but feel I was being set up here. You gave me a weird feeling to begin with.

Posting my name is out of order. This fucking forum gets worse every day.

Edit 2: Also, what you wanted to buy was the coins I had personally listed for sale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1786017.0

This has nothing to do with reshipping, nor am I breaking any laws by selling my own coins.

Edit 3: You posted this:

I think he might be lying to me because he posted this thread :/

A newbie to this forum does not know how to do that with the [url=.

Hence, you are not a newbie. You are someone we all know quite well...

[Lauda]

Do we know someone who uses alts to manipulate others via various methods (e.g. harassment, privacy intrusion, et. al)?

I think it is pretty obvious what the case here was. I got the impression of a setup as soon as I've read the post (which was long before anyone else responded).

[Seattle420]

As for your "getting in trouble for tax evasion", you would have had the choice of having them declared full value, or just the basic material value.

In the first case, you would be fully insured, and would likely have customs and import fees to pay. In the second, you would not be covered insurance wise, and the items would be declared at their basic metal value.

So you are going to lie for me so I can avoid paying taxes? That sounds like the very definition of tax evasion to me, and is not something I want to have any part of.

Why you felt the need to post my name in a public forum, is very annoying, and it breaks my privacy. I would appreciate that being edited out. As a result, I will be tagging you for doing that. You didn't NEED to post that - hell, you didn't need to post anything, because I told you I wasn't doing it anyway. I'll post the PM soon.

I did not post anything that was not intended to be private? I think you maybe forgot to read the note at the bottom of the message: "Note: PM privacy is not guaranteed. Encrypt sensitive messages"

Hi again,

After further thought I have decided that I won't be shipping to the US, not for this kind of value anyway. Sorry about that. It appears that I have a buyer but I had changed my mind anyway. Again - apologies.

Good luck with getting a nice coin by BTCC.

Zepher

I think you said you would still ship to the US for a lower amount? I think that is still tax evasion.

Edit 2: Also, what you wanted to buy was the coins I had personally listed for sale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1786017.0

This has nothing to do with reshipping, nor am I breaking any laws by selling my own coins.

If you are lying to help someone avoid pay taxes, then I think you are engaging in tax evasion, or at least are an accessory to tax evasion. I think you are breaking the law and/or helping others break the law. Am I the only one who thinks this is not okay?

Edit 3: You posted this:

I think he might be lying to me because he posted this thread :/

A newbie to this forum does not know how to do that with the I am not sure what you are trying to say? There is a button on every page to insert a hyperlink. It is not like this place is the only place that BB code is used. There are thousands of forums that utilize BB code.

[TheNewAnon135246]

BTCC are doing the same by not declaring the BTC value on the invoice. This is well known but yet you show interest in the coins. Aren't you being hypocritical by blaming Zepher for it?

[Seattle420]

BTCC are doing the same by not declaring the BTC value on the invoice. This is well known but yet you show interest in the coins. Aren't you being hypocritical by blaming Zepher for it?

I had no idea that BTCC was doing this too. Can you point me in the right direction to see evidence of this?

I just saw Zepher selling something that I thought would look like a nice coin and sent him a message about it.

Even if Zepher's employer, BTCC were to direct him to engage in tax fraud, this does not mean that Zepher did nothing wrong. If my employer told me to break the law, I would refuse to do so, and would resign if necessary if the request continued. I think that maybe Zepher was whoring himself out for his/BTCC's customers by agreeing to commit tax fraud for them.

I only wanted to spend my Christmas bonus on something shiny, I don't want to get involved in any kind of illegal activity, or anything like that.

[owlcatz]

Stop being a moron and learn to read:

https://mint.btcc.com/faq

Edit - Most if not all bitcoin / physical companies do the same thing, it's nothing new.

[Zepher]

Seattle420, or Qui... cough - whoever you are.

Let me make it perfectly clear that I am not, nor have I ever been, employed by BTCC.

As for the rest of your crap - EVERYONE in the collectors community does not declare the Bitcoin value unless specifically asked to, this is so the receiving party does not have import duties to pay. Bitcoin is still a grey area in most countries tax wise, so until the whole community starts declaring everything at full value, then stirring shit with me is a waste of your time, as I am not going to bother responding after this.

BTW, if you aren't who I strongly suspect you are, good luck getting anyone to deal with you now in the Collectibles section. You might need a new account.

Take care now.

[Sweeet]

This thread became a negative trust trading platform.

[Zepher]

This thread became a negative trust trading platform.

It would appear so.

Don't ask for things that have absolutely nothing to do with you (this isn't aimed at you by the way). If a request was fair and reasonable, and had merit behind it, then I have zero problem providing the "evidence". This was an intrusion of my privacy.

(QS should know that my rating for TMAN would have no effect on the negative left before that. Why, do you ask? Because only your first ever positive rating has an affect on someone's score. QS should know this by now anyway).

I don't know who finally edited my name out of that post, but thank you. Seattle420, if it was you, then let me know by PM and I will remove the negative rating I left you.

Bare in mind that I will check that it was actually you who did it by checking with the mods of this section, so don't attempt to lie to me.

That's me done here. Have fun.

[moooonu]

First thing first and that is privacy. It the personnel matter between traders. I think people have the right to do what they wants to do.
I understand your point but let them keep doing what they are doing unless they harm others.

[minifrij]

Even if Zepher's employer

You keep making this mistake. Zepher is not employed by BTCC and never has been.

Even if Zepher's employer, BTCC were to direct him to engage in tax fraud, this does not mean that Zepher did nothing wrong. If my employer told me to break the law, I would refuse to do so, and would resign if necessary if the request continued. I think that maybe Zepher was whoring himself out for his/BTCC's customers by agreeing to commit tax fraud for them.

This isn't BTCC's idea, it is common throughout the community to declare an 'incorrect' value when shipping coins. In addition, you could very easily request for the full amount to be declared on the parcel. You wouldn't do that though, since it is obvious that you had no actual intention of buying anything.

Also, while we're on the topic of the value, what is the full value of a loaded coin like the ones that BTCC offer?
Should you include the value of the Bitcoins on the coin? There is no Bitcoin on the coin, since Bitcoin is not a physical entity. The loaded value of the coin is nothing but letters on a piece of paper, does that mean that the 'value' of this paper should be marked? If so, what should it be marked as? If I stuck a piece of paper containing my bank details onto a piece of metal and shipped it, does that mean that I would have to declare the amount in my bank account as the value?
Let's assume that you do mark the Bitcoins as part of the value, what value would you mark it as? The value of the Bitcoin at the time you are sending it? If so, let's assume that between the UK and US borders the package gets lost for 3 months. In that 3 months, the price of 1 Bitcoin rises by $200. The person shipping that coin from the UK would then be committing tax evasion because the declared price is not the actual value of the coins loaded, correct?
Now let's get onto the metal. How would you value it? As far as spot price, the titanium on a BTCC coin would be worth a few dollars at absolute maximum. Do you include the workmanship put into the coin? If so, who's to value the workmanship put into that coin? BTCC values it at about 0.15BTC, which has the same problem as I mentioned previously with BTC. Also, what if I (or the person shipping it) thinks the workmanship is worth more/less?

I only wanted to spend my Christmas bonus on something shiny

BTCC coins aren't that shiny.

I don't want to get involved in any kind of illegal activity, or anything like that.

Then don't; request for the full value to be listed on the package. Not a difficult thing to if you were actually interested in buying something.

[Seattle420]

I don't know who finally edited my name out of that post, but thank you. Seattle420, if it was you, then let me know by PM and I will remove the negative rating I left you.

Bare in mind that I will check that it was actually you who did it by checking with the mods of this section, so don't attempt to lie to me.

I PM'ed you this many weeks ago, but received no response, and I still have this horrible warning on my account just because I wanted to buy a BTCC coin.

To recap:
*Zepher is engaging in tax fraud.
*Zepher lied about ceasing to reship coins to the USA when he was called about his tax fraud
*Zepher used coercion to get people to remove information he does not want posted
*Zepher lied about removing the mark on my account if I edited his name from my post
*Zepher says that he is not employed by BTCC, but someone else says he was offered employment by BTCC doing the same that Zepher was is doing, only to have his employment offer taken away after he told Zepher about this offer

It looks like Zepher is dishonest and a liar who I would not think is a good idea to trust. I think he has been trying to get as much reputation as possible very quickly.

I know a long term con artist when I see one....

Anyhow I guess I won't be spending my money here, so see you guys later.

[Seattle420]

Also, while we're on the topic of the value, what is the full value of a loaded coin like the ones that BTCC offer?
Should you include the value of the Bitcoins on the coin? There is no Bitcoin on the coin, since Bitcoin is not a physical entity. The loaded value of the coin is nothing but letters on a piece of paper, does that mean that the 'value' of this paper should be marked? If so, what should it be marked as? If I stuck a piece of paper containing my bank details onto a piece of metal and shipped it, does that mean that I would have to declare the amount in my bank account as the value?
Let's assume that you do mark the Bitcoins as part of the value, what value would you mark it as? The value of the Bitcoin at the time you are sending it? If so, let's assume that between the UK and US borders the package gets lost for 3 months. In that 3 months, the price of 1 Bitcoin rises by $200. The person shipping that coin from the UK would then be committing tax evasion because the declared price is not the actual value of the coins loaded, correct?
Now let's get onto the metal. How would you value it? As far as spot price, the titanium on a BTCC coin would be worth a few dollars at absolute maximum. Do you include the workmanship put into the coin? If so, who's to value the workmanship put into that coin? BTCC values it at about 0.15BTC, which has the same problem as I mentioned previously with BTC. Also, what if I (or the person shipping it) thinks the workmanship is worth more/less?

The coins are loaded with a total of 4 BTC. Zepher was selling them for a total of 4.425 BTC with free shipping. He said that he will list the value at $25 each, I guess this means $100 total. The difference between Zepher's price of 4.425 and the face value is 0.425 BTC, and at the time this was worth about $425.

Your logic is wrong, and is contradictory to the law anyway. Zepher knows what he is doing is wrong because he is saying that the coins might get seized by customs.

I don't want to get involved in any kind of illegal activity, or anything like that.

Then don't; request for the full value to be listed on the package.

I think you just contradicted yourself bro

[Lauda]

Wake me up once you post from your main account. Then this may be worth responding to. Some of us are well informed about long term BTCTT con artists, self escrowing and such.

*Zepher says that he is not employed by BTCC, but someone else says he was offered employment by BTCC doing the same that Zepher was is doing, only to have his employment offer taken away after he told Zepher about this offer

Someone else also says I'm satoshi.

[Zepher]

I don't know who finally edited my name out of that post, but thank you. Seattle420, if it was you, then let me know by PM and I will remove the negative rating I left you.

Bare in mind that I will check that it was actually you who did it by checking with the mods of this section, so don't attempt to lie to me.

I PM'ed you this many weeks ago, but received no response, and I still have this horrible warning on my account just because I wanted to buy a BTCC coin.

Can we see this PM please? Because you most certainly didn't PM and ask me to remove the tag because you had edited out my name. You didn't do it, so I don't see why I should remove the tag.

To recap:
*Zepher is engaging in tax fraud.
*Zepher lied about ceasing to reship coins to the USA when he was called about his tax fraud
*Zepher used coercion to get people to remove information he does not want posted
*Zepher lied about removing the mark on my account if I edited his name from my post
*Zepher says that he is not employed by BTCC, but someone else says he was offered employment by BTCC doing the same that Zepher was is doing, only to have his employment offer taken away after he told Zepher about this offer

It looks like Zepher is dishonest and a liar who I would not think is a good idea to trust. I think he has been trying to get as much reputation as possible very quickly.

Anyhow I guess I won't be spending my money here, so see you guys later.

I am not going to answer all your bullshit, and I am not going to repeat what I have already posted regarding the shipping of coins internationally.

Are you just dumb, or do you have selective memory?
I have not done any USA reships since posting that thread. Please note that selling my own coins is not reshipping. Get that clear, okay? Idiot.

Yes, I was offered employment by BTCC, and I personally declined the offer. Feel free to contact them and ask if this is the case, these words serve as my permission for them to answer - if they'll give you the time of day that is. Interesting that you obtained that information though, I only told a couple of people. Thanks for letting me know.

You are doing your best to drag my name through the mud here, and all you are doing is making yourself look more delusional than you usually do. Seriously, get a life.

I know a long term con artist when I see one....

I am known in real life by a couple of upstanding, reputable forum members. I have been entrusted with hundreds of thousands of dollars of others' money, and have never let anyone down. If you hadn't noticed, I have actually pretty much stopped trading on this forum due to assholes like you, who take the fun out of everything. I have better things to do with my time.

Now, I suggest you find something to do that you are good at, like account farming and self escrowing.

And please post from your main account next time. Thanks

Edit:

but someone else says he was offered employment by BTCC doing the same that Zepher was is doing, only to have his employment offer taken away after he told Zepher about this offer

Now I have read that a couple of times, I realise that I had read it wrong to begin with.

Lol, really?? I know of no one else who was offered employment by BTCC. I was, and I declined as I have already stated.

Interesting info though....

[minifrij]

snip

You didn't answer my question, and in general you made a pretty confusing post.

The difference between Zepher's price of 4.425 and the face value is 0.425 BTC, and at the time this was worth about $425.

So is this what you think the proper declared value of the parcel would be? In which case, would you not then be incorrectly declaring value due to the loaded BTC on the coin (of which makes up the majority of all value)? If we are not counting the Bitcoin loaded onto the coin, then why should anything other than the metal's spot price be declared? What's to stop someone else valuing said coin higher and shouting about tax fraud as you are now?

Your logic is wrong, and is contradictory to the law anyway.

I fail to see how, care to explain?

Zepher knows what he is doing is wrong because he is saying that the coins might get seized by customs.

That is because a certain someone may or may not have sent a tip off to said customs. Not that you'd know anything about that.
Also, even if he marked his BTCC coins as $25 each there would be no reason for customs to seize the coins. The coins have no face value (in USD or any other FIAT currency) and are essentially just a hunk of metal with a sticker on it to anyone unsure on how physical bitcoins work.

I think you just contradicted yourself bro

I don't think I did bro

You said that you didn't want to engage in any 'illegal activity', or at least what you considered to be as such. I suggested that you didn't, and instead request for the 'full value' of the coins to be marked on the shipping (whatever you and/or Zepher decide that may be).

[Rmcdermott927]

Also, while we're on the topic of the value, what is the full value of a loaded coin like the ones that BTCC offer?
Should you include the value of the Bitcoins on the coin? There is no Bitcoin on the coin, since Bitcoin is not a physical entity. The loaded value of the coin is nothing but letters on a piece of paper, does that mean that the 'value' of this paper should be marked? If so, what should it be marked as? If I stuck a piece of paper containing my bank details onto a piece of metal and shipped it, does that mean that I would have to declare the amount in my bank account as the value?
Let's assume that you do mark the Bitcoins as part of the value, what value would you mark it as? The value of the Bitcoin at the time you are sending it? If so, let's assume that between the UK and US borders the package gets lost for 3 months. In that 3 months, the price of 1 Bitcoin rises by $200. The person shipping that coin from the UK would then be committing tax evasion because the declared price is not the actual value of the coins loaded, correct?
Now let's get onto the metal. How would you value it? As far as spot price, the titanium on a BTCC coin would be worth a few dollars at absolute maximum. Do you include the workmanship put into the coin? If so, who's to value the workmanship put into that coin? BTCC values it at about 0.15BTC, which has the same problem as I mentioned previously with BTC. Also, what if I (or the person shipping it) thinks the workmanship is worth more/less?

The coins are loaded with a total of 4 BTC. Zepher was selling them for a total of 4.425 BTC with free shipping. He said that he will list the value at $25 each, I guess this means $100 total. The difference between Zepher's price of 4.425 and the face value is 0.425 BTC, and at the time this was worth about $425.

Your logic is wrong, and is contradictory to the law anyway. Zepher knows what he is doing is wrong because he is saying that the coins might get seized by customs.

I don't want to get involved in any kind of illegal activity, or anything like that.

Then don't; request for the full value to be listed on the package.

I think you just contradicted yourself bro

The biggest question is, why do you care what zepher does and why is this still going on?   It's an old dead issue, everyone should  just ignore responses from the alt army.

[Vod]

 It's an old dead issue, everyone should  just ignore responses from the alt army.

I have no idea why Legendary members respect these newbie alt accounts enough to reply to them.  If they don't have the guts to post with their main account, their words mean nothing.

[Quickseller]

Unfortunately, it seems that Zepher and many of his friends do not like it when people even ask questions about Zepher's trades.

For those who can read the Wall Street Journal, here is a very interesting and relevant editorial --> https://www.wsj.com/articles/critics-try-to-smear-trumps-election-integrity-commission-1501709170 (pay wall)

I would avoid doing any kind of business with Zepher after seeing his reaction to this thread.

[Lauda]

I would avoid doing any kind of business with Zepher after seeing his reaction to this thread.

Why would someone care what a , proven, scammer thinks?