bitcoin is done.

[Crazy]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again. But we probably will, just with a new batch of idiots. I'd much prefer slow to moderate growth that is coupled with adoption and innovation.

[BubbleBoy]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again. But we probably will, just with a new batch of idiots. I'd much prefer slow to moderate growth that is coupled with adoption and innovation.

That can't be, efficient market and all. If bitcoin looks like it's on track for major adoption, fools will throw their money at it treating it as a "store of value". Therefore causing volatility, therefore breaking bitcoin as a currency. It's a self defeating prophecy caused by the hard limit on supply.

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

[piramida]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again.

Bitcoin bubbles are a good thing, they let people who believe in the idea to grow their holdings without spending much money, and also I'm sure we got some new faces this time who'll stick around. Iterative development is a very valid approach, too

[Crazy]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again. But we probably will, just with a new batch of idiots. I'd much prefer slow to moderate growth that is coupled with adoption and innovation.

That can't be, efficient market and all. If bitcoin looks like it's on track for major adoption, fools will throw their money at it treating it as a "store of value". Therefore causing volatility, therefore breaking bitcoin as a currency. It's a self defeating prophecy.

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

Well, what these bubbles do is educate the masses. Don't be stupid is the message. A lot of people received it, and they won't repeat it. Ideally this will become a less common occurrence, to the point where it never happens (20+ years from now if it succeeds). People are getting an education, which I consider the silver lining on all this.

[freedomno1]

Well as a true compliment of sorts
Bitcoin is acting like any normal stock

[Twerka]

The prices are fake, we must to aknowledge it.
The real price of a BTC will be taken when people really use it for transaction; buying real things.

Now, with all these "market" out there, there is only a game of speculators who play to raise and fall to get profit. Those markets are based on nothing more than offer and demand. Those market ignore dollar inflation, dollar devaluation, bitcoin deflation, difficulty, etc; that is the reason why it's volatile; the price seems to be the will of some speculators playing stock games.

Even, reading the BTCe chat, you know that the value of BTC is based on the health of MtGox servers: If they lag, BTC go down. Ridiculous. If a guy with 1 million dollars buy all the sell orders from 50 to 200, then the BTC will cost 200 magically. And then he can sell all for 199. What do you think? Is not it nonsensical?

[noedaRDH]

The prices are fake, we must to aknowledge it.
The real price of a BTC will be taken when people really use it for transaction; buying real things.

Now, with all these "market" out there, there is only a game of speculators who play to raise and fall to get profit. Those markets are based on nothing more than offer and demand. Those market ignore dollar inflation, dollar devaluation, bitcoin deflation, difficulty, etc; that is the reason why it's volatile; the price seems to be the will of some speculators playing stock games.

Even, reading the BTCe chat, you know that the value of BTC is based on the health of MtGox servers: If they lag, BTC go down. Ridiculous. If a guy with 1 million dollars buy all the sell orders from 50 to 200, then the BTC will cost 200 magically. And then he can sell all for 199. What do you think? Is not it nonsensical?

Good to see some common sense.

[dego]

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

Are you talking about Freicoin there?

[BubbleBoy]

Not really. I don't think demurrage can be sold to regular people. Inflation is simple, everyone can understand that: put your money to work or they will lose value. But having 100 Fc in the account, preparing to buy a car, then see you just missed that price and you have 99.5Fc ? Say whaaat ? "Unit of account" and all that.

Also, they burn the money they collect as miner fees. That just isn't right, it's a very expensive way for society to mint it's money. It's digital gold with demurrage. I think it's better to just gift those money to people who need it - and the Ripple experiment will show if proof of work is really necessary for security.

Otherwise, I 100% concur with the philosophical goals of Freicoin. We should not strive to give rich people an inflation hedge. They should invest, risk and create value. I'm not against wealth, I'm against self-perpetuating wealth, also know as feudalism.

Think of this example: a calamity hits society and everything is harder to produce, be it goods, services, food, etc. Since there are less stuff than before for the same amount of money, increasing prices across the board (aka inflation) are the natural way to restore balance and both wealthy and poor get a share of the goods proportional to their assets, like before. If you strive to maintain the same purchasing power for the holders of wealth, there's no logical outcome other than poor people getting less - because poor people spend most of their wealth while rich people hold it. A more complex argument can be made that even in normal times a 0% guaranteed real return is too high, since no human activity has zero risk.  Zero risk inflation hedges for rich people are always at the expense of poor people.

[piramida]

If a guy with 1 million dollars buy all the sell orders from 50 to 200, then the BTC will cost 200 magically. And then he can sell all for 199. What do you think? Is not it nonsensical?

Try that one day. Want to know what will happen? You will buy all orders from 50 to 200 then the next sell of 0.1 coin would bring the price back down to 50 and you just lost 3/4 of your million, and the orders will get replenished quickly to wait for the next idiot with a million, that's all that is going to happen.

[neotenie]

I bought very late, I know before, but needed (too much) time to understand the principle.
Since, as long as I don't sell my btc back, I cannot say that I lost anything. If I would sell now, yes of course.
I prefer to wait. Maybe at the end the btc dies and I lost all, maybe it will come back and have a future in a few years, so I can spend them to buy stuff or keep a part of it. I think selling now (and loosing 70%) will participate to kill the btc, so I stay.
Cheers, Neo

[afbitcoins]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again. But we probably will, just with a new batch of idiots. I'd much prefer slow to moderate growth that is coupled with adoption and innovation.

That can't be, efficient market and all. If bitcoin looks like it's on track for major adoption, fools will throw their money at it treating it as a "store of value". Therefore causing volatility, therefore breaking bitcoin as a currency. It's a self defeating prophecy caused by the hard limit on supply.

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

Well you are entitled to your opinion but I think you sound like a banker. During the gold standard money was a reliable store of value and inflation virtually non-existant. This happy state of affairs lasted for centuries, benefiting ordinary people but not the elite class. Look at the divergence between the wealthy and the rest today, its at levels never seen before. In free market competition good money drives out bad. Bitcoins will see off the paper ponzi and a good job too.

[afbitcoins]

The prices are fake, we must to aknowledge it.
The real price of a BTC will be taken when people really use it for transaction; buying real things.

Now, with all these "market" out there, there is only a game of speculators who play to raise and fall to get profit. Those markets are based on nothing more than offer and demand. Those market ignore dollar inflation, dollar devaluation, bitcoin deflation, difficulty, etc; that is the reason why it's volatile; the price seems to be the will of some speculators playing stock games.

Even, reading the BTCe chat, you know that the value of BTC is based on the health of MtGox servers: If they lag, BTC go down. Ridiculous. If a guy with 1 million dollars buy all the sell orders from 50 to 200, then the BTC will cost 200 magically. And then he can sell all for 199. What do you think? Is not it nonsensical?

This is only because the market is still small. As it gets bigger and bigger this kind of manipulation will become harder and harder to achieve.

[freequant]

I honestly feel all the btc is dead/done threads are an attempt to pick up some cheap coins. Oh well, if it works I'll be right there with you cleaning up.

No it's really dead. Not quite as much dead as last time, but definitely more dead than next time it dies again.

[proudhon]

I think it's gonna make it, after all.  New and professionally run exchanges are in the works as we speak.  MtGox is doing a lot of work, and will be better than ever in a few weeks.  In a few months we could be approaching highs again.

[Gabi]

C'mon guys we had a bubble in 2011, we now had a bubble in 2013, bitcoin didn't die in 2011, why the hell should it die now??? Did fundamentals change? NO

[BitcoinAshley]

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

... Lrn2money.
Money "SHOULD" be a store of value. How the heck else are you going to save? Didn't your mommy teach you when you were a teenager and you got your first checking account that you need at least 6 months of expenses saved in case of emergency/lost job/etc? That's just RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. What about retirement savings? How the heck am I going to save up many hundreds of thousands of $$ for retirement if the money I use is not a STORE OF VALUE?
A statement like "money should not be a store of value" is absolutely retarded and completely ignorant.
Furthermore, the "deflation = bad cuz people don't spend" is a neo-keynesian myth easily disproved by looking at the success of bitcoin businesses and businesses that accept bitcoin for goods/services. And the fact that gold and silver, both deflationary exchanges of value, were used as currency for thousands of years. Is Private Internet Access filing for bankruptcy because people 'aren't spending their deflationary coins?' Wipe Paul Krugman's semen off of your face before your next post, you sound like a bankster. 

I think it's gonna make it, after all.  New and professionally run exchanges are in the works as we speak.  MtGox is doing a lot of work, and will be better than ever in a few weeks.  In a few months we could be approaching highs again.

PROUDHON BEARISH!
I can't tell whether he actually believes that, or if he's purposely acting as a contrarian indicator to annoy people who actually do believe in the success of bitcoin

BTW, y'all, go back to the 2011 crash and I guarantee you there are a million threads "bitcoin is done." Most of those idiots are probably gone now, and it's safe to ignore the new ones.

[Wuji]

I hope we NEVER see a bubble again. But we probably will, just with a new batch of idiots. I'd much prefer slow to moderate growth that is coupled with adoption and innovation.

That can't be, efficient market and all. If bitcoin looks like it's on track for major adoption, fools will throw their money at it treating it as a "store of value". Therefore causing volatility, therefore breaking bitcoin as a currency. It's a self defeating prophecy.

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

Well, what these bubbles do is educate the masses. Don't be stupid is the message. A lot of people received it, and they won't repeat it. Ideally this will become a less common occurrence, to the point where it never happens (20+ years from now if it succeeds). People are getting an education, which I consider the silver lining on all this.

People are not being educated at all and most buyers/sellers probably have never seen this site. PT Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute".  The masses will always be fools and smart people will make money.  The earth keeps spinning and rotating around the sun.  These are law of the universe, not subject to ever change.

The problem is every time you get in a bubble the masses are too dumb to remember history (last week) and can't believe they are in a bubble.  Go back and read posts from a few weeks ago.

[piramida]

I think it's gonna make it, after all.  New and professionally run exchanges are in the works as we speak.  MtGox is doing a lot of work, and will be better than ever in a few weeks.  In a few months we could be approaching highs again.

Just as you turned bear too early in the bull run, you turn bull when we just started the bear decline. You always have to play against the market don't you?

[afbitcoins]

Money should not be a "store of value", especially high risk internet money. You should have a guaranteed inflation of 3-5% a year so that you don't keep more than you are willing to spend in the short run. The inflation tax should go to a charity you select.

... Lrn2money.
Money "SHOULD" be a store of value. How the heck else are you going to save? Didn't your mommy teach you when you were a teenager and you got your first checking account that you need at least 6 months of expenses saved in case of emergency/lost job/etc? That's just RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. What about retirement savings? How the heck am I going to save up many hundreds of thousands of $$ for retirement if the money I use is not a STORE OF VALUE?
A statement like "money should not be a store of value" is absolutely retarded and completely ignorant.
Furthermore, the "deflation = bad cuz people don't spend" is a neo-keynesian myth easily disproved by looking at the success of bitcoin businesses and businesses that accept bitcoin for goods/services. And the fact that gold and silver, both deflationary exchanges of value, were used as currency for thousands of years. Is Private Internet Access filing for bankruptcy because people 'aren't spending their deflationary coins?' Wipe Paul Krugman's semen off of your face before your next post, you sound like a bankster. 

I think it's gonna make it, after all.  New and professionally run exchanges are in the works as we speak.  MtGox is doing a lot of work, and will be better than ever in a few weeks.  In a few months we could be approaching highs again.

PROUDHON BEARISH!
I can't tell whether he actually believes that, or if he's purposely acting as a contrarian indicator to annoy people who actually do believe in the success of bitcoin

BTW, y'all, go back to the 2011 crash and I guarantee you there are a million threads "bitcoin is done." Most of those idiots are probably gone now, and it's safe to ignore the new ones.

Well said