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lukestokes
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April 16, 2013, 12:23:22 PM
 #1

I've only been around a few months, but it seems like most people involved in Bitcoin who are vocal about it really want to see it succeed. Are we willing to see it succeed even if it costs us money?

When the price was above $200 I knew there would be a correction. Just about everyone did. But I didn't sell. I'm interested in the long term success of Bitcoin. When my friends compared Bitcoin to a single stock, I always corrected them and explained the problem and how Botcoin solves it. Now, I feel my argument is much harder to make.

When I see the price dropping so much, I have to ask myself, who is selling? The more people that participate in the swings, the bigger the swings will be. Sure, you might increase your holdings a bit, but will that be at the expense of the general public adopting bitcoin sooner? If day traders' holdings are increasing because of new people panic selling (which creates more volatility), aren't we just hurting ourselves?

I believe in Bitcoin's long term value. That said, Betamax was arguably a better technology than VHS. It still didn't win the adoption battle. Good money drives out bad, but with this volatility, Bitcoin isn't looking like good money at the moment. If day trading contributes to volatility, why are those who want Bitcoin to succeed day trading?

These are just my current thoughts. What do you think?

Do you think day trading slows adoption?

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April 16, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
 #2

I've only been around a few months, but it seems like most people involved in Bitcoin who are vocal about it really want to see it succeed. Are we willing to see it succeed even if it costs us money?

When the price was above $200 I knew there would be a correction. Just about everyone did. But I didn't sell. I'm interested in the long term success of Bitcoin. When my friends compared Bitcoin to a single stock, I always corrected them and explained the problem and how Botcoin solves it. Now, I feel my argument is much harder to make.

When I see the price dropping so much, I have to ask myself, who is selling? The more people that participate in the swings, the bigger the swings will be. Sure, you might increase your holdings a bit, but will that be at the expense of the general public adopting bitcoin sooner? If day traders' holdings are increasing because of new people panic selling (which creates more volatility), aren't we just hurting ourselves?

I believe in Bitcoin's long term value. That said, Betamax was arguably a better technology than VHS. It still didn't win the adoption battle. Good money drives out bad, but with this volatility, Bitcoin isn't looking like good money at the moment. If day trading contributes to volatility, why are those who want Bitcoin to succeed day trading?

These are just my current thoughts. What do you think?

Do you think day trading slows adoption?

The largest BTC addresses did not move an inch during the last bubble.  No sells, no buys, no movement at all.  This tells me that the entirety of the last month has been new adopters chasing a tiny amount of coins -->  pushing price up the wazoo.  

These BTC whale addresses cared not one iota.  The weak hands (the day traders you speak of) took a hit because they bought in and then immediately freaked and sold.  Strong hands have remained strong.  

Some sold at the top to buy back in at the bottom.  It doesn't seem to hinder adoption except by those too stupid to do their homework before buying a $262 digital nothing.  Those guys can stay out of it for all I care.

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April 16, 2013, 12:31:19 PM
 #3

When speculators bring the price up they are praised. When they bring it down they are hated. The problem with many bitcoiners is that they just hold bitcoins and think the value will rise if they convince enough people that 1 BTC will be 10000$ in a few years. What they don't realize is that they aren't helping the bitcoin economy at all. The way to help the economy grow is by spending and doing business with bitcoins. Don't get me wrong, there are alot of people doing just that and they deserve respect. But while speculators sometimes drive price up and sometimes down, hoarders are doing nothing at all. I mean, i could just buy bitcoins and lose my wallet and i have contriibuted as much to the economy as a hoarder.
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April 16, 2013, 12:44:23 PM
 #4

When speculators bring the price up they are praised. When they bring it down they are hated. The problem with many bitcoiners is that they just hold bitcoins and think the value will rise if they convince enough people that 1 BTC will be 10000$ in a few years. What they don't realize is that they aren't helping the bitcoin economy at all. The way to help the economy grow is by spending and doing business with bitcoins. Don't get me wrong, there are alot of people doing just that and they deserve respect. But while speculators sometimes drive price up and sometimes down, hoarders are doing nothing at all. I mean, i could just buy bitcoins and lose my wallet and i have contriibuted as much to the economy as a hoarder.
Sorry but if people would not hoard then price will be even lower and speculators could buy more and even more make price volatile. Imagine what would happend if everyone that is hoarding now would decide to sell their bitcoins. The higher price the less volatile market will be.

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April 16, 2013, 01:06:39 PM
 #5



when bitcoins were a penny a piece, and hashing out like breath mints

were people asking the same question?



i guess your question isn't new

and, in a short time has been answered daily.
BubbleBoy
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April 16, 2013, 01:12:41 PM
 #6

Quote from: The wise BubbleBoy
Such actions help stabilize the price, buy when it's cheap and sell on the tip of bubble. People playing the bubble are preventing it from happening.

So it's not the cold blooded speculators that ruin the bitcoin market, looking for a short time profit. It's the greed of long term bulls: "there's a limited amount of bitcoins so if I get in early I will be RICHER THAN GEORGE FUCKING SOROS !". Such stupidity attracts sharks like a bloody fresh kill, and they stabilize the market back by feasting on the dumb money. Without the long bulls and the "store of wealth" promise (an economic impossibility), there would be no speculation and BTC price will stay rock solid.

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April 16, 2013, 02:23:27 PM
 #7

Quote
When the price was above $200 I knew there would be a correction. Just about everyone did. But I didn't sell. I'm interested in the long term success of Bitcoin. When my friends compared Bitcoin to a single stock, I always corrected them and explained the problem and how Botcoin solves it. Now, I feel my argument is much harder to make.
It would have been good if more people would have sold at $200 instead of at $250.

The speculators who brought at $200 are the problem. They got punished for it by the market.
If new people comes into the market someone has to take the opposing site of the trade and sell them the bitcoins that the want to buy at $200.

Daytrading by smart investors who can reliably predict the further worth of something reduces votility.
A lot of people who try now to daytrade will lose money to people with skills at daytrading. After a
while they will leave the market and the votality goes down.

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April 16, 2013, 02:41:37 PM
 #8

...they aren't helping the bitcoin economy at all.

I beg to differ. When a "hoarder" (actually saver is the more appropriate term) buys Bitcoins, they are forgoing future consumption. The price they pay represents a claim on society's output which they have elected not to consume. This output now becomes liberated and can seek out usefulness in the role of capital, forming a base upon which to further increase the production of total goods and services. Bitcoin savers provide another useful function, they create a market for Bitcoins and a way for other people to sell.

If you think that having a limited supply of 21 million coins is good, then you must also agree that when a saver takes a chunk of Bitcoins out of circulation by not spending them for a period of time, this is also good (since it further limits supply). It is true that eventually they will sell, but for the entire time they held the Bitcoin position, the money they spent to obtain the coins has been busy creating gains for other people in the economy.

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April 16, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
 #9

The problem with many bitcoiners is that they just hold bitcoins and think the value will rise if they convince enough people that 1 BTC will be 10000$ in a few years.

+1

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April 16, 2013, 03:19:16 PM
 #10

Im' not sure day trading does any good or bad to bitcoin. In the end what will really matter is the size of the bitcoin economy, not expressed in dollars, but expressed in quantity and quality of goods and services exchanged.

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April 16, 2013, 03:44:34 PM
 #11

It wasn't daytraders who brought the price to 250, it was new "just heard of bitcoin" money,
perhaps smarter traders would have stopped the uptrend at 225, reducing volatility.
(but who knows what would have happened without the exchange crashing, Btc going to 1k and stabilizing?)
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April 16, 2013, 03:55:02 PM
 #12

It wasn't daytraders who brought the price to 250, it was new "just heard of bitcoin" money,
perhaps smarter traders would have stopped the uptrend at 225, reducing volatility.
(but who knows what would have happened without the exchange crashing, Btc going to 1k and stabilizing?)

Daytraders don't care what the price is. They make money from volatility and are sometimes able to use tricks to cause it. Yes, daytraders could have been using small trades to make the price jump at strategic points.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 17, 2013, 01:46:03 AM
 #13

i guess your question isn't new

and, in a short time has been answered daily.

Sorry, I'm slow. What's the daily answer been?

Im' not sure day trading does any good or bad to bitcoin. In the end what will really matter is the size of the bitcoin economy, not expressed in dollars, but expressed in quantity and quality of goods and services exchanged.

I agree. We're doing our part to get more merchants on board with online stores.


...they aren't helping the bitcoin economy at all.

If you think that having a limited supply of 21 million coins is good, then you must also agree that when a saver takes a chunk of Bitcoins out of circulation by not spending them for a period of time, this is also good (since it further limits supply). It is true that eventually they will sell, but for the entire time they held the Bitcoin position, the money they spent to obtain the coins has been busy creating gains for other people in the economy.

Interesting way to look at it. Thanks everyone.

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April 17, 2013, 01:52:42 AM
 #14

People who are 'day-trading' and 'speculating' actually help bitcoins. They give liquidity to the markey and help smooth out price fluctuations. It looks like we actually need more speculators, the current ones we have are just not managing to keep the market stable.

People who are 'hoarding' or 'saving', those who buy bitcoins and hold, also help bitcoins. The amount they put in contributes to the total monetary value of bitcoins, setting the value for what a bitcoin is worth.

Just to be thorough, people who use bitcoins for transactions or sending money also help bitcoins. They give meaning to the system, and they pay the transaction fees which go to the miners who keep the whole thing going.

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July 25, 2018, 06:43:33 PM
 #15

Good thinking, lots of people do day trading but they want bitcoin success, they say "Bitcoin will go up" but they sell it, should they hold together support real bitcoin instead of just declare



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August 10, 2018, 05:57:05 AM
 #16

Good thinking, lots of people do day trading but they want bitcoin success, they say "Bitcoin will go up" but they sell it, should they hold together support real bitcoin instead of just declare

for now, trading daily is not recommended because market trends are now experiencing price declines.
beg for all of it, because it takes some time to restore the existing market.
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August 15, 2018, 12:16:09 AM
 #17

In my opinion there are powers, those banks and the power that be, that controls the world because they create fiat money were the ones that bringing down the price of BTC. Since they have deep pockets, they basically can print money for free, they can now manipulate the price of bitcoin however way they want. They are suppressing the price of bitcoin because they want to buy more and so others will see bitcoin as just a bubble.
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