Someone on Ebay offering 10 Bitmain S9's & 10 Bitmain T9's

[wmabern]

I was browsing Ebay to see what crazy prices are being asked for the newer generation miners. I might even have grabbed one if they were anywhere close to reasonable.

Imagine my surprise to see these listing by the same person.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Bitmain-T9-bitcoin-miners-ANTMINER-IN-HAND-111-5TH-mini-farm-BRAND-NEW-/132081502154?hash=item1ec0abc7ca:g:guYAAOSw241YkMNL

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Bitmain-S9-Batch-22-16nm-Bitcoin-miners-ANTMINER-IN-HAND-111TH-mini-farm-/132087248625?hash=item1ec10376f1:g:m9MAAOSw5cNYl5vx

Of course this: "PAYMENT IS TO BE  BITCOIN/BTC , CASH  IN PERSON, OR BANK DEPO (NO CHECKS). NOTE WE WILL REFUND ANY PAYPAL PAYMENT OR CC PAYMENT ATTEMPTED  FOR THIS AUCTION."

Both sets of miners are priced at $19,999.99.

And part of the listing reads: "Up for grabs is 10 Bitmain batch 22 11TH S9 16nm bitcoin miners currently running strong for 9 weeks now.  Bitmain ANTMINER S9 111 TH/s mini farm money maker."

So they are USED.
Beside the fact that they are requiring payment in terms Ebay does not allow - BTC and Bank Deposits.

I smell a scam of some sort and wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
I reported both listings as in violation of EBay's payment policy. I'll do anything I can to help prevent people from being ripped off.

Maybe if we all do our part in some way, we can help to bring down these crazy prices for ASIC miners. [Wishful thinking, I know]

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[leowonderful]

Too bad even the lower priced units are ridiculously overpriced and are also used in most cases. It's a shame but people have got to make profit in this world; unless you nut, always buy direct or from members of this forum as you will almost certainly get better prices.

I made around twenty bucks selling a Spondoolies Sp20E unit for 80 bucks with the buyer paying shipping just a few days ago, and even that was a low price compared to other items. eBay is just a terrible place to buy miners.

[wmabern]

Too bad even the lower priced units are ridiculously overpriced and are also used in most cases. It's a shame but people have got to make profit in this world; unless you nut, always buy direct or from members of this forum as you will almost certainly get better prices.

I made around twenty bucks selling a Spondoolies Sp20E unit for 80 bucks with the buyer paying shipping just a few days ago, and even that was a low price compared to other items. eBay is just a terrible place to buy miners.

Oh I agree completely with both points. But every now and then I get curious to see what kind of miner is being peddled on Amazon and Ebay. So I have to take a look to satisfy my curiosity - always hoping for a legit, fairly priced item. (I do not DISBELEIVE in Unicorns  )

I have not run across one of those deals yet and would be very surprised to find one.

[Biodom]

Not sure why you think that it is a scam.
Unlikely, in my opinion due to his high ratings (unless the account is hacked)
bitmain sells for 1508+54=1562; add at least $150 due to shipping delay=1712, multiply by 1.13 (ebay+paypal fees)=1934, not that far from 1999, which includes shipping, incidentally.

A little overpriced, but not grossly so...there are other machines for $2300, so i just don't see it.

[wmabern]

Not sure why you think that it is a scam.
Unlikely, in my opinion due to his high ratings (unless the account is hacked)
bitmain sells for 1508+54=1562; add at least $150 due to shipping delay=1712, multiply by 1.13 (ebay+paypal fees)=1934, not that far from 1999, which includes shipping, incidentally.

A little overpriced, but not grossly so...there are other machines for $2300, so i just don't see it.

I guess my main concern was that he is only accepting BTC, Bank Deposit or cash. All of those are against EBay's payment rules and terms of service. And would make most people think twice.
None of those give you any recourse once the funds are delivered.

Buying from Bitmain or Avalon with those payment terms is different. Those are the payment option you expect.

Yes, you never can tell if someone is using another vendors name and reputation. I have seen that a number of times on Ebay in the not-so-distant past.

Anyway, if Ebay doesn't like it or it is a fraudulent listing, it will be removed.

If the listing is valid and it's just the payment options that are invalid, it can be relisted with payment methods that give the buyer some protections.

Just my $.02.

EDIT: Both listings now show: This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

[Biodom]

Not sure why you think that it is a scam.
Unlikely, in my opinion due to his high ratings (unless the account is hacked)
bitmain sells for 1508+54=1562; add at least $150 due to shipping delay=1712, multiply by 1.13 (ebay+paypal fees)=1934, not that far from 1999, which includes shipping, incidentally.

A little overpriced, but not grossly so...there are other machines for $2300, so i just don't see it.

I guess my main concern was that he is only accepting BTC, Bank Deposit or cash. All of those are against EBay's payment rules and terms of service. And would make most people think twice.
None of those give you any recourse once the funds are delivered.

Buying from Bitmain or Avalon with those payment terms is different. Those are the payment option you expect.

Yes, you never can tell if someone is using another vendors name and reputation. I have seen that a number of times on Ebay in the not-so-distant past.

Anyway, if Ebay doesn't like it or it is a fraudulent listing, it will be removed.

If the listing is valid and it's just the payment options that are invalid, it can be relisted with payment methods that give the buyer some protections.

Just my $.02.

EDIT: Both listings now show: This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

if you sell through ebay, this fact is all that matters, see below.
you can always return an item if it is not as described, hence many people return items that they themselves messed up, making the whole experience less than optimal for both parties.
he can actually request bank deposit, which is perfectly reversible for a while.
btc maybe not according to their current rules, but it really does not matter as $$ value is always reversible for some time.
ebay/paypal will just take $$ out of his account, if needed (return), providing that it was not a fraudulent posting from a hacked account.

[wmabern]

if you sell through ebay, this fact is all that matters, see below.
you can always return an item if it is not as described, hence many people return items that they themselves messed up, making the whole experience less than optimal for both parties.
he can actually request bank deposit, which is perfectly reversible for a while.
btc maybe not according to their current rules, but it really does not matter as $$ value is always reversible for some time.
ebay/paypal will just take $$ out of his account, if needed (return), providing that it was not a fraudulent posting from a hacked account.

If it is a fraudulent seller, ebay/paypal wouldn't have access to retrieve any funds.

Anyway, here are ebays allowed payment methods. The only methods this seller was accepting are disallowed.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html


Doesn't matter now because both listings are gone because it was either sold or removed.

[Biodom]

if you sell through ebay, this fact is all that matters, see below.
you can always return an item if it is not as described, hence many people return items that they themselves messed up, making the whole experience less than optimal for both parties.
he can actually request bank deposit, which is perfectly reversible for a while.
btc maybe not according to their current rules, but it really does not matter as $$ value is always reversible for some time.
ebay/paypal will just take $$ out of his account, if needed (return), providing that it was not a fraudulent posting from a hacked account.

If it is a fraudulent seller, ebay/paypal wouldn't have access to retrieve any funds.

Anyway, here are ebays allowed payment methods. The only methods this seller was accepting are disallowed.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html


Doesn't matter now because both listings are gone because it was either sold or removed.

Yes, listing was removed and was possibly hacked since ebayer with experience knows that you cannot pay with btc there.
However, you are covered if seller is fraudulent, ebay will return the money eventually (after a while).
i had this situation when i bought an item, then seller disappeared with the money from more than 100 buyers.
In about 2 weeks, money was returned. I assume that ebay had to reach into their own pocket for this.

I had even stranger case when there was a fraudulent buyer of my item.
He/she pretended to pay, ebay told me to ship, I shipped, then 24 hr later, i got a barrage of frantic messages that i should not ship because payment was fraudulent somehow. They even put a hold on these $$ (which were now in my account). I simply called ebay and told them that the item was shipped already, provided tracking numbers and that was it, money returned after shipment reached the destination.

[adaseb]

Well if he sells you an Antminer S9 and it breaks, you can get a full refund in 6 months if you pay by Paypal. He will even have to pay shipping both ways. Even if the doesn't break, difficulty can quadruple in 6 months and you can get a full refund.

If you pay cash, bank deposit, btc, then they are safe against refunds or exchanges which the S9 has a huge probability of failure.

Alot of auctions on eBay are like this, they were probably burnt before and don't want to take that risk again. So they only accept methods that are non-refundable, but I am sure they will ship you the miner if you paid.

[leowonderful]

Well if he sells you an Antminer S9 and it breaks, you can get a full refund in 6 months if you pay by Paypal. He will even have to pay shipping both ways. Even if the doesn't break, difficulty can quadruple in 6 months and you can get a full refund.

If you pay cash, bank deposit, btc, then they are safe against refunds or exchanges which the S9 has a huge probability of failure.

Alot of auctions on eBay are like this, they were probably burnt before and don't want to take that risk again. So they only accept methods that are non-refundable, but I am sure they will ship you the miner if you paid.

There's guys that even mine miners to death and return them or return bricks to the seller, and in most cases the seller can't do anything about it. It makes sense for these people to price things higher as they're going through such risks constantly. Of course like you just said there's also guys that scam, but going with a trusted buyer AND USING ESCROW can prevent such risks on your side if you choose to buy with bitcoin.

[tntdgcr]

Well if he sells you an Antminer S9 and it breaks, you can get a full refund in 6 months if you pay by Paypal. He will even have to pay shipping both ways. Even if the doesn't break, difficulty can quadruple in 6 months and you can get a full refund.

If you pay cash, bank deposit, btc, then they are safe against refunds or exchanges which the S9 has a huge probability of failure.

Alot of auctions on eBay are like this, they were probably burnt before and don't want to take that risk again. So they only accept methods that are non-refundable, but I am sure they will ship you the miner if you paid.

There's guys that even mine miners to death and return them or return bricks to the seller, and in most cases the seller can't do anything about it. It makes sense for these people to price things higher as they're going through such risks constantly. Of course like you just said there's also guys that scam, but going with a trusted buyer AND USING ESCROW can prevent such risks on your side if you choose to buy with bitcoin.

so true. the amount of mining fraud among some of the new small consumers is amazing to me.

[wmabern]

Well if he sells you an Antminer S9 and it breaks, you can get a full refund in 6 months if you pay by Paypal. He will even have to pay shipping both ways. Even if the doesn't break, difficulty can quadruple in 6 months and you can get a full refund.

"PAYMENT IS TO BE  BITCOIN/BTC , CASH  IN PERSON, OR BANK DEPO (NO CHECKS). NOTE WE WILL REFUND ANY PAYPAL PAYMENT OR CC PAYMENT ATTEMPTED  FOR THIS AUCTION."

If you pay cash, bank deposit, btc, then they are safe against refunds or exchanges which the S9 has a huge probability of failure.

None of these forms of payment are allowed on Ebay. You MUST offer at least one of the electronic forms of payment such as PayPal or CC

Alot of auctions on eBay are like this, they were probably burnt before and don't want to take that risk again. So they only accept methods that are non-refundable, but I am sure they will ship you the miner if you paid.

I'm done with this thread. No use beating a dead horse.
Cheers. Mine on!