Bitcoin for the rich, not the poor - We are talking about the miners fees

[SvenBomvolen]

   Bitcoin as another currency is for all of us, but people with more wealth can earn more, and they can spend money in every form on fancy things, privilege of the rich people.
   Its the system, we cant beat that, we can only try to find a way to get rich.

i guess it will be always like that no matter currency, money will make money, rich will richer

And bitcoin cant do nothing to change all that.

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[Kprawn]

Yea, it might look like Bitcoin is getting more expensive, but this is just while we are under a spam attack... things will soon return to normal and

then everyone will be paying lower fees. I do not know how long it will take for these people's funds to run dry, but they will eventually run out of

funds to spam the network. We might also see some scaling solution soon... so let's not run into senseless conclusions like this. 

[cpfreeplz]

Hahahahahahhaha. I must be fucking rich. I just spent like 15 cents on a transaction. Only peasants spend 5 cents. Holy shit it's like anything else in the world, higher fees will take priority. There's no rich or poor it's just being a cheap bastard vs paying what you need to for the TX to go h in a decent amount of time. You can still pay your 20 sat/byte. Just don't expect it to be a priority transaction. Fuck you whiney butches are annoying. It's still the cheapest way to send money. Let us know if you find a 100% efficient method to send coins overseas with a zero fee that can be produced millions of times.

[Victorycoin]

Well to an extent maybe, I suppose the transaction fee for 50 million btc is the same a 0.0005 btc. But it's not like the current fee problems are eternal, and the fees are still lower than other fiat options.

That's true, fee is still lower compared to fiats, but cheap fee is one of the corner stones of Bitcoin and now it has started to increase, if not properly addressed, someday there would be little or no difference with fees we see with the fiat currencies. It should be called to mind, that the root cause of the myriad of problems confronting our financial systems in the first place, is the fact they were structured to favor the rich to get richer at the expense of the sweat and blood of the poor. My belief however, is that Bitcoin is different and actually came to address all those anomalies. Bitcoin is classless!

[daddybios]

It is not necessary to shift all their misfortunes on somebody else, country, power, fate, miners fee... Poverty is a deliberate choice of the person. Bitcoin is also not a curse. That's all I wanted to say.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Yes because free market isn't "fair". You can afford a computer, internet and have the knowledge to use Bitcoins (not to mention having the BTC for the transaction) yet complain about a measly 10-20 cents?

[dothebeats]

The thing is, even though the fees are increasing for the current time, still we can't deny the fact that these increases for the fees are still sustainable and still is nice for moving large sums of money. Though it sucks that it would take a couple hours before you get your tx confirmed if you pay for a small sum but it is what it is; you get the service that you paid for.

[South Park]

The situation with the Blockchain <higher miners fees> lately, reminds me of the Air line industry. If you are rich, you can pay for first class treatment and you advance past the plebs in the queue, directly to the VIP area. Money <higher miners fees> will make sure that you are treated like a VIP.

This is how the Blockchain is for poor people :




And this is what it is like to have enough money to pay the higher fees :



The poor people cannot even afford to fly in economy class, so they will have to be satisfied with this :



Bitcoin is no different than any other technology, because it still favors the rich. ^hmmmmmmm^

Edit : For the people who are too lazy to read the content of the thread, we are talking about the miners fees, not about the price of Bitcoin. ^grrrrrrr^

That is the way any new technology begins, at first cell phones were big and very expensive, you needed to have a car and 3000 dollars, which was a lot more money back in the day to have one, now they are really cheap and affordable to more people, give time to bitcoin and it will eventually be able to reach the masses.

[Creepings]

That my friend is the sad part of our world. Everyone I mean anyone would really favors the rich and I think the technology is till swinging in favor of them. Who can buy good gadgets, who can buy sweet cars, who can buy houses with voice recognitions, who can have a WiFi in their houses, rich people are. Mostly poor people are satisfied with the simple things that they have because they are more humble than the rich, and mostly they are the most helpful than the rich.

[LeGaulois]

The guy is talking about the fees, not about the bitcoin price and if bitcoin is for rich or poor.
Nor the technology used or what friends are able to buy  as gadgets ect, it's not the point... He got a point and summarized pretty well with the images. I found it funny, better than a long text article. It's true the fees are making 2 different groups

[franky1]

the problem of fee's is the old 'priority mechanism

(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes
target = 57,600,000

where someone with say 10btc($10,000)

100000000 *144 / 250 = 57,600,000 - gets priority

but someone with just 1btc($1000) with the exact same 'bloat' has to wait 10 days.
but someone with just 0.1btc($10) with the exact same 'bloat' has to wait 100 days.

the other thing is sgwit solves NOTHING
malicious spammers and scammer even after segwit activation will avoid using segwit keys. and so they can still bloat, malleate and spam the network.
malicious spammers and scammer even after LN public release will avoid using LN contracts. and so they can still bloat, malleate and spam the network.

rather than segwit. which only benefits those that use segwit keys (meaning malicious people just avoid segwit keys to remain malicious)
rather than LN. which only benefits those that use LN (meaning malicious people just avoid LN to remain malicious)

i see a new 'priority formulae' being used onchain of bitcoins mainnet.
this is what i see as the logical punishment for bloating/respending spammers. whilst rewarding moral normal transactors, whether rich or poor

one which includes a CLTV voluntary option. where users gain priority points if they voluntarily agree to put their funds into a 1-day maturity. but those avoiding the one day before respend or have bloated transactions pay more to get into a block sooner.

EG
if you really need priority you agree that once confirmed you cant respend for a day.
it also means you can be selective of priority. by only putting a 142block wait if your happy to wait a couple blocks because it wont be priority for a couple blocks by not paying quite enough fee. allowing the age/maturity/fee variables to give a better flag of desire.

obviously those moral users that actually need to spend more than once a day could see the niche of LN as a way to transact often and cheaper.
and those that dont spend every day get priority and not need LN or to CLTV mature funds, because they are not spending everyday, anyway.

here is one example of a formulae that does not care about how much people are spending (not a rich gets priority, poor are victimised old formula), but rewards people willing to wait a day, have lean transactions. and penalises those that want to respend often or have bloated transactions



basically
if your transaction is 2x a lean tx. you pay twice as much. if 44x a lean tx you pay 44x
if you dont want to mature your funds for 144 blocks and only want to wait 1 block you pay 144x.
if the tx is both 44x bloated and wants to respend the very next block after getting confirmed then it costs 44x*144X


though my formulae is not finalised or perfect for every utility. i see how changing the priority formulae can cause more benefits for good people and penalise the bad, without making it used just to be snobby about rich vs poor. due to it no longer rewarding the rich with points just for being rich, which the old formulae done

[buwaytress]

Perhaps not using the choiciest of words (or perhaps this is franky's deliberate choice!) but I am all for a revision, or at least, a reexamination of the fee formula(e).

Yes, it represents among the lowest of digital currency but that simply means it's the best among competitors. There needs to be more incentive for miners to mine lower priority txs... not just with coins?

[Kakmakr]

Hahahahahahhaha. I must be fucking rich. I just spent like 15 cents on a transaction. Only peasants spend 5 cents. Holy shit it's like anything else in the world, higher fees will take priority. There's no rich or poor it's just being a cheap bastard vs paying what you need to for the TX to go h in a decent amount of time. You can still pay your 20 sat/byte. Just don't expect it to be a priority transaction. Fuck you whiney butches are annoying. It's still the cheapest way to send money. Let us know if you find a 100% efficient method to send coins overseas with a zero fee that can be produced millions of times.

Arrogance is surely one of your strong points, you must be an American. ^lol^ Bitcoin is not just about remittance, you idiot, it is a payment network. If we wanted free transactions, we can sign up with Xapo or one of those services that offer off-chain solutions, but then we have to sacrifice privacy and security. < centralized service are less secure & and has to adhere to AML/KYC regulations >

At this stage, even M-Pesa is looking better than Bitcoin. The whiney bitches < or butches?> of the world, will fill your big pockets even more, because there are billions of them out there. < but I reckon, they are supposed to be excluded, because they do not count? >

[Senor.Bla]

I really wonder how people post in this Thread opinions like "It is just xy cents. Who cares? That is nothing...". There is a bigger picture to it. Just because you do not see it, does not mean it is not there. The best part is when the same people post hoe great Bitcoin is, how bright its future will be. They mention the coming mass adoption and the low fees.
The fees are rising and this will continue with a growing user base. Ironically it is a good thing for the rest of the users, if the poor have to drop out because of to high fees, as the drop in users will be a small relief to the growing user base. But this is still not a good thing. Also Banks and other Payment systems are not just watching, they are developing them ad their solutions too. The head start Bitcoin had with its fast and cheap transactions is melting and lately Bitcoin is running in the wrong direction. 

[poplolnman]

The thing is, even though the fees are increasing for the current time, still we can't deny the fact that these increases for the fees are still sustainable and still is nice for moving large sums of money. Though it sucks that it would take a couple hours before you get your tx confirmed if you pay for a small sum but it is what it is; you get the service that you paid for.

if you compare bitcoin fee with another altcoin transaction fee you will see a contrast difference on what op said was unfortunately correct , for examle look at dogecoin , it provide very small transaction fee as low as $ 0.00025 ! see? sometimes people move to altcoin because of this situation and also a very long time your transaction to be confirmed often recently.

[hajimasan]

no that much expensive if we compare it with fait currency and its online transfer process. and poor people would not have laptop or smartphone to use bitcoin and they would keep away from bitcoin. but while transacting in bitcoin we pay only $0.5 for $30 so its not that expensive the we think and obviously spending $1 and $2 with bitcoin is foolish act.

[ReLieD]

Bitcoin doesnt go that way. I have friends who are poor who are now millionaires due to bitcoin. With just a few dollars they bought bitcoin last 2009 and some collect religiously in faucets to get more. And right now they are millionaires they have huge houses. Bitcoin is for the people who believe in the power of bitcoin. I am not rich yet I do bitcoin and with bitcoin I have met many online opportunities and that gave me hundred of dollars additional profit which is very helpful to my family. Thanks to bitcoin I dont have huge debt today.

Well it's kinda hard to believe that your poor friendS became so rich that they can buy houses because of bitcoin.
That's kinda hard to believe infact impossible to believe.
Well they can have enough money to live a basic life for around 10 years or so depending on the amount of bitcoins they have.
Well in the year 2009 when bitcoin was not even trusted that much , how much did your poor friends buy bitcoin .
A max of 20 or so.
Well that's around 20k USD and with that money you cannot buy lavish things for yourself.

[vnvizow]

Bitcoin doesnt go that way. I have friends who are poor who are now millionaires due to bitcoin. With just a few dollars they bought bitcoin last 2009 and some collect religiously in faucets to get more. And right now they are millionaires they have huge houses. Bitcoin is for the people who believe in the power of bitcoin. I am not rich yet I do bitcoin and with bitcoin I have met many online opportunities and that gave me hundred of dollars additional profit which is very helpful to my family. Thanks to bitcoin I dont have huge debt today.

Well it's kinda hard to believe that your poor friendS became so rich that they can buy houses because of bitcoin.
That's kinda hard to believe infact impossible to believe.
Well they can have enough money to live a basic life for around 10 years or so depending on the amount of bitcoins they have.
Well in the year 2009 when bitcoin was not even trusted that much , how much did your poor friends buy bitcoin .
A max of 20 or so.
Well that's around 20k USD and with that money you cannot buy lavish things for yourself.

Tell that to the miner who threw away a harddrive with a wallet containing 1500 coins back in 2009 cause he didn't believe in bitcoin's potential and then searched in the dumps for months. Or the guy who paid 50,000 bitcoins for a pizza way back.

[Amph]

Yea, it might look like Bitcoin is getting more expensive, but this is just while we are under a spam attack... things will soon return to normal and

then everyone will be paying lower fees. I do not know how long it will take for these people's funds to run dry, but they will eventually run out of

funds to spam the network. We might also see some scaling solution soon... so let's not run into senseless conclusions like this. 

are you sure this is a spam attack and not a genuine increase of the numbers of transaction per seconds? there is even a way to tell this? i don't think so

if they are still doing all these spam attacks after so many time it only means that it is actually "profitable" to do and they have no real incentive to stop

also it doesn't make sense for the miners to increase the fee because of spammers, when the spammers are actually spamming because fee is high and bitcoin don't scale, see the nosense...

[ASHLIUSZ]

In one of the quote its been described that his friend a poor guy became rich through bitcoin. This happened due to the price difference that took place from 2009. In my view such scenarios are very rare, because at the early days only few people knew about it and the potential is realized by the users few years back. At that time rich people were found much into it as they have good capital. Now little by little poor people were getting into bitcoin network.