Bitcoin Forum
May 04, 2024, 02:49:23 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: The invisible hand of the market  (Read 1158 times)
Luckybit (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 510



View Profile
April 16, 2013, 11:13:47 PM
 #1

It's an arms race between high frequency traders who want to game the system and those who want functioning Bitcoin exchanges for price discovery. If Bitcoin cannot win the algorithms arms race it's over for Bitcoin.

Here is an article below which highlights the problem which exists in traditional markets and which came to Bitcoin when Bitcoin went mainstream.

http://theconversation.com/out-of-our-hands-the-hidden-dangers-of-high-frequency-trading-3750

Most of us remember that as soon as the so called "big money" and "big boy" players got involved with Bitcoin then suddenly there have been DDOS attacks, high frequency trading, and other hostile algorithm based manipulation. The only solution is to come up with algorithms to prevent hostile algorithms but that enters us into the domain of whitehat vs blackhat. The blackhats currently are turning Bitcoin into a speculative game to test out their new trading algorithms.
1714834163
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714834163

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714834163
Reply with quote  #2

1714834163
Report to moderator
You get merit points when someone likes your post enough to give you some. And for every 2 merit points you receive, you can send 1 merit point to someone else!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
Jutarul
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 16, 2013, 11:20:11 PM
 #2

It's an arms race between high frequency traders who want to game the system and those who want functioning Bitcoin exchanges for price discovery. If Bitcoin cannot win the algorithms arms race it's over for Bitcoin.

Here is an article below which highlights the problem which exists in traditional markets and which came to Bitcoin when Bitcoin went mainstream.

http://theconversation.com/out-of-our-hands-the-hidden-dangers-of-high-frequency-trading-3750

Most of us remember that as soon as the so called "big money" and "big boy" players got involved with Bitcoin then suddenly there have been DDOS attacks, high frequency trading, and other hostile algorithm based manipulation. The only solution is to come up with algorithms to prevent hostile algorithms but that enters us into the domain of whitehat vs blackhat. The blackhats currently are turning Bitcoin into a speculative game to test out their new trading algorithms.
The per-order fee is already a huge barrier to high-frequency trading.

The failure of Mtgox seems to be their trading algorithm. However, the other exchanges are not doing any better. It's what you get when you let computer experts write market making software: rollercoasters. Of course it's gonna be exploited by people who know how to ride them.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
BitDreams
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 503
Merit: 501



View Profile
April 16, 2013, 11:46:55 PM
 #3

Except there is no invisibility with bitcoin - at least not the type Wall Street likes - there are no dark pools, no hidden volume. Everyone sees everything or nobody sees anything.
whydifficult
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 287
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
April 17, 2013, 12:21:21 AM
 #4

Except there is no invisibility with bitcoin - at least not the type Wall Street likes - there are no dark pools, no hidden volume. Everyone sees everything or nobody sees anything.

AFAIK The math guys on Wallstreet focus, among other things, on how to move large shares through the market without letting others know that you're doing it by using algo's. This could be practically copied over to BTC if it wasn't for the fees.

Gekko a nodejs bitcoin trading bot!
Realtime Bitcoin Globe - visualizing all transactions and blocks
Tip jar (BTC): 1KyQdQ9ctjCrGjGRCWSBhPKcj5omy4gv5S
Luckybit (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 510



View Profile
April 17, 2013, 12:25:20 AM
 #5

Except there is no invisibility with bitcoin - at least not the type Wall Street likes - there are no dark pools, no hidden volume. Everyone sees everything or nobody sees anything.

AFAIK The math guys on Wallstreet focus, among other things, on how to move large shares through the market without letting others know that you're doing it by using algo's. This could be practically copied over to BTC if it wasn't for the fees.

What makes you think a small fee would stop them from doing it? It's not big enough of a fee to work.
BTC Books
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 17, 2013, 12:30:36 AM
 #6

Except there is no invisibility with bitcoin - at least not the type Wall Street likes - there are no dark pools, no hidden volume. Everyone sees everything or nobody sees anything.

Ummm... no.

There are dark pools, and plenty of hidden volume.  It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that hidden volume was greater than that on the exchanges.

Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
BitDreams
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 503
Merit: 501



View Profile
April 21, 2013, 07:41:18 PM
 #7

Correct me if I'm wrong, we may not know the owner of a wallet but we can know if the wallet is reduced in size?
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!