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Author Topic: Two newbie questions about anonymity and pump and dumps  (Read 887 times)
FleckerlTurn
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February 11, 2017, 08:55:06 PM
 #1

Hello, I am a newbie, but I have followed this forum on and off for a few years. I have these two question perhaps some folks could shed some light on. Maybe they are obvious and/or already have been answered: if so, sorry for a dumb post.

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!
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February 11, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
 #2

What pumps & dumps are you referring to?
With alts, pumps & dumps are a common occurrence but the market price behind BTC is actually determined by multiple factors. Financial legislation for example has a big impact on it.
When BTC rises, it's then normal to see other alts rise too.
If an alt randomly skyrockets then it's fair to say that it'll fall just as quickly as it rose.

Back to your question, how is BTC a pump & dump?



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ArdiPrabowo
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February 11, 2017, 11:31:47 PM
 #3

if you say about pump and dump bitcoin price is nothing one person can do it, because must big money
dump and pump bitcoin price only bitcoin community can do it
and nothing you can trace who is pump and dump bitcoin price
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February 11, 2017, 11:43:02 PM
 #4

Bitcoin is same anonymous like you can be anonymous in internet.Bitcoin pump and dumps,whan chinse miners were joining forces thay didnt have competition,after some time chinise were pumpng bitcoins wit bot use than thay were turning bots on sell and there was dump


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rogerwilco
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February 12, 2017, 01:30:36 AM
 #5

One factor you have to consider is the psychology of the people watching such "pump and dumps". How much of it is really what you say?

It could be the same effect as when people used to believe the movement of the sun was caused by some guy riding a chariot across the sky. People have a bad habit of attributing significant events to one or few agents deliberately making said event happen, when in fact that may not be what's going on at all.
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February 12, 2017, 01:46:47 AM
 #6

For one, consider the fact that people can easily mix bitcoins and make it at least more difficult for people to find out where the coins are coming from. Second, most people don't buy when coins are pumping but there's always demand for coins so it's safe to assume that during a P+D whales don't keep buying up coins. Of course everybody has different motives so it's impossible to know for sure; we can't look inside somebody's brain.














 

 

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February 12, 2017, 02:04:58 AM
 #7

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

What is the point? They aren't doing anything which would be punishable by law.
In most cases, Chinese exchanges would lead the price movements (whether it is a surge or crash).

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February 12, 2017, 02:06:24 AM
 #8

A others have pointed out, there's no "pump and dump".

"Pump and dump" is a fraudulent stock market scam in which a worthless company's stock's value is artificially inflated by insider trading until it becomes valuable enough for the insiders to sell to unsuspecting victims for a large profit. The victims are left with overpriced shares in a worthless company.

Bitcoin is not a company. There are no shareholders and no insiders with sufficient resources to do a pump and dump, except for perhaps Satoshi and his coins are closely watched without any sign of movement.

Any upward movements are the result of people choosing to buy bitcoins, often driven by FOMO, and downward movements are the result of people choosing to sell bitcoins, often driven by panic. Many people lose money but many others profit, usually by taking advantage of the cycles of greed (FOMO) and fear (panic) in others.

There is no central conspiracy to "pump and dump", it's as decentralized as Bitcoin itself. There are many participants worldwide.
______

As for identifying the buyers and sellers in the kind of trades that can move the market, that's why most governments insist on exchanges adhering to AML/KYC regulations.

The exchange operators could identify them if they wanted. Likewise governments can force them to disclose their identities.

Most people, on the other hand, must be content with following the coins on the blockchain, without being privy to the confidential identity information possessed by the exchanges and available to governments.
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February 12, 2017, 06:54:37 AM
 #9

Hello, I am a newbie, but I have followed this forum on and off for a few years.
i have a feeling that we won't see you again in here, since this looks like a throw away account!

Quote
1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?
first of all what pump and dumps? the last pump was in 2013 which was fake rise to $1200 by mtgox and we all know that clearly.
unless you want to call any rise as a pump (which is a wrong definition) there have never been any other pumps.

Quote
2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?
again you are assuming there is pump and dump!
volatility does not mean pump and dump. the fact that size of the orderbooks are much smaller than other markets makes the swings bigger. otherwise swinging price is a perfectly normal thing.

and besides nobody is preventing anyone from buying or not buying bitcoin. it is an open market and you can choose to buy when you think there was a "dump" and take the coins out of the whales hands.

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February 12, 2017, 04:26:38 PM
 #10

Hello, I am a newbie, but I have followed this forum on and off for a few years. I have these two question perhaps some folks could shed some light on. Maybe they are obvious and/or already have been answered: if so, sorry for a dumb post.

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!

It's not that easy. All an exchange has is:

1) the address that the bitcoins came from
2) the ip address of the session logins

I assume big whales are using Tor/VPN's to not leave ip traces, and also if the bitcoin address has no info attached to it, like the whale's name or something, it's just useless and they could have mixed the coins for all we know.

So no, nobody is going to bother trying to find who is pumping what.

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February 12, 2017, 06:13:37 PM
 #11

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

you can't trace back the pumpers if you see all the address on that are connected with an exchanged, but then how can you link that address to a particular person? it's impossible unless they leave their ID at the exchange

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!

i think they just buy back to have more, this the whole point of a pump and dump from whales after all, if they would lose money each time it would be stupid

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February 12, 2017, 07:16:25 PM
 #12

Hello, I am a newbie, but I have followed this forum on and off for a few years. I have these two question perhaps some folks could shed some light on. Maybe they are obvious and/or already have been answered: if so, sorry for a dumb post.

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!

Trading is happening on exchanges. and exchanges are centralised just like banks. They can see exactly what you did and trade when and to whom. So there is no anonymity or secret to them. With decentralised exchanges is different. There if we will want to find who traded will need to use some block chain analytic tools that are being developed now. 

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BillyBobZorton
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February 13, 2017, 12:59:24 PM
 #13

Nobody gives a fuck about people pump and dumping altcoins, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise.

All the money cares about is that you pay your taxes once you cash out on fiat, so the moral of the story is, keep making bitcoins and never cash out unless you have enough to retire once you cash out, otherwise you will keep losing money by paying taxes every time you cash out.


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amacar2
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February 13, 2017, 06:31:14 PM
 #14

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!

1. Bitcoin can provide complete anonymity if the one who uses bitcoin doesn't post his bitcoin address details anywhere, where bitcoin end up can be tracked but if tumbling service is used in middle of the transaction it will be really hard to reach the end point.

2. All of the alts that pump and dumps really quick will rest as shit coin without any volume after whales & devs completely dumps all their holdings.

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February 13, 2017, 08:32:03 PM
 #15

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?
I can assure you that exchange operators are perfectly aware who is the big whale and who is behind the flow of coins.

Will it help you when you will know who owns the coins? What will you do if you know that 'Jon Snow' is selling 882 BTC?

You can still see the see sell/buy orders just without names behind it.

DomainMagnate
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February 13, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
 #16

Hello, I am a newbie, but I have followed this forum on and off for a few years. I have these two question perhaps some folks could shed some light on. Maybe they are obvious and/or already have been answered: if so, sorry for a dumb post.

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?

2. It seems to me that having fewer coins amongst a larger number of holders would be a good thing, as opposed to whales holding hordes. Do the pump and dumps help spread the coins around, or do they just get bought up by the whales agains?

Thanks!
Bitcoin is freely available in market to buy.If you want to buy just head to any exchange and you can buy as many btc as your budget allow.If same whales were buying back all the bitcoins they sold.it wouldnt be available for us to buy.
pooya87
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February 14, 2017, 08:00:42 AM
 #17

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?
I can assure you that exchange operators are perfectly aware who is the big whale and who is behind the flow of coins.

Will it help you when you will know who owns the coins? What will you do if you know that 'Jon Snow' is selling 882 BTC?

You can still see the see sell/buy orders just without names behind it.

you have a good point. although you can not tell if a wall is from one person or from multiple orders belonging to multiple people, all you can see is the order total.

but it doesn't matter if you can see it, what matters is what you are going to do about it.
i keep saying whales dumping or manipulators selling means all the rest of the investors can take their coins out of their hands for cheap price since they are giving it away.

Harry Callahan
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February 14, 2017, 09:46:11 AM
 #18

if you say about pump and dump bitcoin price is nothing one person can do it, because must big money
dump and pump bitcoin price only bitcoin community can do it
and nothing you can trace who is pump and dump bitcoin price
Let me tell you one thing that i understand nothing what you just said.If you are telling that one person cannot influence a major pump and dump how about big mining farms as they are holding a huge amount of coins and what about early miners who had thousands of bitcoin they could make some changes to the traders mind if they see a huge amount of coins being sold. The owners of the exchanges does have a pretty idea who is holding majority of the coins even though the users are not able to see.
Catmony
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February 14, 2017, 02:53:50 PM
 #19

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?
Bitcoin transaction can be tracked but the one who is holding those bitcoin addresses can't be tracked so we can't know person behind any of the dumps/pumps/scams/ponzis. But in most of the dumps/pumps of alt, Dev himself will be the one who will dump all his holdings when his coin get listed on exchanger.

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February 14, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
 #20

1. Bitcoin is referred to a quasi-anonymous, in that transactions to specific addresses are stored and can thus be tracked. Why doesn’t this provide a means to find out something about who/what is behind big pump and dumps?
I can assure you that exchange operators are perfectly aware who is the big whale and who is behind the flow of coins.

Will it help you when you will know who owns the coins? What will you do if you know that 'Jon Snow' is selling 882 BTC?

You can still see the see sell/buy orders just without names behind it.

This. You can track bitcoin via the blockchain only to the point where the coins go into the exchanges. The exchanges trade off-blockchain, and they are the only ones who know who are making the trades.

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