Dear Environmentalists, please stop ranting about global warming

[RodeoX]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.
In the past it has been warmer and colder. That is perfectly natural. But so is the death of 90% of all life on Earth. It has happened at least 5 times before.
My concern is that even though I love nature, it does not love me. There is no reason to think that the warming will stop before our extinction. In fact it may be to late. The permafrost is now melting and that is very worrying. The methane that is now being released could dwarf the effect humans directly have on the sky. At the same time the oceans are soaking up less and less CO2 as the reefs die. With all this evidence I consider anything less than alarm to be a weak response.

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[FirstAscent]

And... ?

The above quote sums up beautifully my entire position on global warming, anthropogenic or not.

Gaea is a big girl. She can take care of herself.

Way to sidestep the points and give a useless answer. We know the Earth isn't going to disappear. That isn't the point of the efforts against AGW. To point out the obvious, the point is to bring things back to a state where the Earth's natural climate changes are the norm.

[myrkul]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.

There's the flaw in your experiment.

Bet you can even guess why.

[myrkul]

And... ?

The above quote sums up beautifully my entire position on global warming, anthropogenic or not.

Gaea is a big girl. She can take care of herself.

Way to sidestep the points and give a useless answer. We know the Earth isn't going to disappear. That isn't the point of the efforts against AGW. To point out the obvious, the point is to bring things back to a state where the Earth's natural climate changes are the norm.

And my point is that She can do that Herself. Trying to fuck with a self-regulating system is only going to cause problems.

[FirstAscent]

And... ?

The above quote sums up beautifully my entire position on global warming, anthropogenic or not.

Gaea is a big girl. She can take care of herself.

Way to sidestep the points and give a useless answer. We know the Earth isn't going to disappear. That isn't the point of the efforts against AGW. To point out the obvious, the point is to bring things back to a state where the Earth's natural climate changes are the norm.

And my point is that She can do that Herself. Trying to fuck with a self-regulating system is only going to cause problems.

Then we should stop fucking with the self regulating system, shouldn't we?

Obviously, the extreme of not fucking with the self regulating system would be the absence of any humanity induced output. Something between our current output and no output would be less fucking with the self regulating system, no?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Post not making much that sense RodeoX, you do realise I'm talking about a solution to global warming that's actually real and could work if there's enough money behind it right? You seem to be in troll mode.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Al Gore have a hand in creating some sort of stock exchange, thus creating, of sorts, a flow of money to stop global warming.

In regard to the meteor that hit Península de Yucatán eons ago, thanks to plate tectonics, the peninsula's current location is no longer near its location when the meteor hit, let alone its shape.

Speaking of plate tectonics, the climate of the Earth would have been much different a billion plus years ago even if then the relative conditions we have today were the same, simply due to a larger disconnect ocean interacting with the sun and moon (as in tides), coupled with the conveyor system being completely different.

[RodeoX]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.

There's the flaw in your experiment.

Bet you can even guess why.

I don't see it. Is it sealing the tanks? That is just so the air won't float away. Not the same seal as the earth, gravity does that IRL. But basically we live on a wet rock with a bubble around it, so the sky is sequestered.  

[FirstAscent]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.

There's the flaw in your experiment.

Bet you can even guess why.

I don't see it. Is it sealing the tanks? That is just so the air won't float away. Not the same seal as the earth, gravity does that IRL. But basically we live on a wet rock with a bubble around it, so the sky is sequestered.

If you didn't seal the tanks, you wouldn't have a valid experiment, as it would simply mix with the outside environment.

[myrkul]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.

There's the flaw in your experiment.

Bet you can even guess why.

I don't see it. Is it sealing the tanks? That is just so the air won't float away. Not the same seal as the earth, gravity does that IRL. But basically we live on a wet rock with a bubble around it, so the sky is sequestered.  

OK, maybe this will get you to understand. What happens when water boils?

[John Self]

I dislike being 'preached at' as much as anybody.

But if people don't hear about global warming from pushy environmentalists, they'll hear about it from fruitloops like Alex Jones, the right wing press, the left wing press (which is usually pretty inaccurate too), silver tongued representatives of the oil and coal lobbies, people who believe that global warming won't happen because God promised Noah there wouldn't be a second flood (Republican congressmen), people who say que sera sera, car salesman and travel agents. Actually who needs a list, let's just say every group which has an investment in the current economic system which is based on carbon expenditure and ever expanding production and consumption.

In this situation it doesn't much matter who brings the problem up or how, so long as it's being discussed as a problem. Solutions will be embraced once we widely recognise warming to be a problem within our power. Anyone who recognises it as a problem and raises awareness is alright with me.

P.s. Here is a great Ted Talk on the importance for cattle grazing for global warming. The speaker argues that if we use cattle to reverse desertification, then we can begin to reverse climate change!

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html

[FirstAscent]

But again, how is it possible that one can add CO2 to the atmosphere without driving up heat retention. You can try it at home. Get two fishtanks and seal them. In one put some air, in the other put some air and some extra CO2. Now place a thermometer in both and shine a lamp on them. Within an hour you will notice that the CO2 tank is heating up more.

There's the flaw in your experiment.

Bet you can even guess why.

I don't see it. Is it sealing the tanks? That is just so the air won't float away. Not the same seal as the earth, gravity does that IRL. But basically we live on a wet rock with a bubble around it, so the sky is sequestered.  

OK, maybe this will get you to understand. What happens when water boils?

What happens when we reduce our global footprint - i.e stop trying to fuck with the self regulating system. I'm awaiting your answer from my last post. And let me point out that it was you who just advocated that we should indeed reduce the level of fucking we do with the Earth's natural self regulation.

[myrkul]

And... ?

The above quote sums up beautifully my entire position on global warming, anthropogenic or not.

Gaea is a big girl. She can take care of herself.

Way to sidestep the points and give a useless answer. We know the Earth isn't going to disappear. That isn't the point of the efforts against AGW. To point out the obvious, the point is to bring things back to a state where the Earth's natural climate changes are the norm.

And my point is that She can do that Herself. Trying to fuck with a self-regulating system is only going to cause problems.

Then we should stop fucking with the self regulating system, shouldn't we?

Obviously, the extreme of not fucking with the self regulating system would be the absence of any humanity induced output. Something between our current output and no output would be less fucking with the self regulating system, no?

You assume that humanity is not part of that self-regulating system. We are not outside of nature. We are part of nature. Therefore anything we do is part of that self-regulating system. You complain about the environment not having time to adjust. Imagine what would happen if we suddenly changed directions just as the environment started to adjust?

Put another way, which is worse, inflation, or inflation, then deflation?

[FirstAscent]

And... ?

The above quote sums up beautifully my entire position on global warming, anthropogenic or not.

Gaea is a big girl. She can take care of herself.

Way to sidestep the points and give a useless answer. We know the Earth isn't going to disappear. That isn't the point of the efforts against AGW. To point out the obvious, the point is to bring things back to a state where the Earth's natural climate changes are the norm.

And my point is that She can do that Herself. Trying to fuck with a self-regulating system is only going to cause problems.

Then we should stop fucking with the self regulating system, shouldn't we?

Obviously, the extreme of not fucking with the self regulating system would be the absence of any humanity induced output. Something between our current output and no output would be less fucking with the self regulating system, no?

You assume that humanity is not part of that self-regulating system. We are not outside of nature. We are part of nature. Therefore anything we do is part of that self-regulating system. You complain about the environment not having time to adjust. Imagine what would happen if we suddenly changed directions just as the environment started to adjust?

Put another way, which is worse, inflation, or inflation, then deflation?

Thank you for putting your foot in your mouth. If the new technology which mankind puts to use is part of the self regulating system, then please refrain from ever pointing to events prior to the technological age as analogies for climate change.

The bottom line is we are the only species which advances our tools at a rapid pace, thus constantly creating a change in the level of our effects. This rapid change is exactly the kind of thing which can throw a self regulating system out of balance. And that especially applies to the short term - i.e thousands of years.

[RodeoX]

Frankly, I wish the deniers were right. 

[FirstAscent]

Frankly, I wish the deniers were right. 

Unfortunately, they are not. Too bad they can't see that.

[myrkul]

Thank you for putting your foot in your mouth. If the new technology which mankind puts to use is part of the self regulating system, then please refrain from ever pointing to events prior to the technological age as analogies for climate change.

Right, because if the new stuff is part of the system, the old stuff clearly must not be.

Humans have been changing their environment since the first hominid picked up a burning stick and brought it back to the cave.

[FirstAscent]

Thank you for putting your foot in your mouth. If the new technology which mankind puts to use is part of the self regulating system, then please refrain from ever pointing to events prior to the technological age as analogies for climate change.

Right, because if the new stuff is part of the system, the old stuff clearly must not be.

Humans have been changing their environment since the first hominid picked up a burning stick and brought it back to the cave.

At ever changing rates, our technological changes are not necessarily things that our planet's self regulating system can deal with if your interest is a world rich in biodiversity, productive ecosystems, and by extension, ecosystem services.

You can clearly see the difference in 100,000 humans using fire vs. billions of cars today. Or are you not able to see that difference?

[Gimpeline]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL8HP1WzbDk

Think Carlin is spot on

[FirstAscent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL8HP1WzbDk

Think Carlin is spot on

He's not spot on. Not only are people fucked, but so are tens of thousands of other species, ecosystems, and so on. And we're the cause of it.

There is no baseline metric of what defines the planet as being fine. The best metric is the one in which the planet's systems proceed at the pace they normally do, which is not occurring right now.

[myrkul]

You can clearly see the difference in 100,000 humans using fire vs. billions of cars today.

Certainly. Progress. Eventually, we'll have a few trillion humans using space ships. Then some number of quadrillions using who knows what.

Or we can go back, and we'll still be back at 100,000 using fire when the sun bakes the planet dry.