China and price

[deisik]

I have read alot about China this and China that but I really dont understand why it has to be like that. Even if they have the farms over there, I believe its other countries that are even giving them the way because of the strict attitude towards bitcoin by other countries. How on earth can one country be deciding the direction of a currency that is even used all over the world. How I wish bitcoin can be strong enough to deflate all sorts of news coming from that end

Welcome to the US dollar, bro

Heres what I think on the whole PBOC keeping BTC below 1000 US dollars conspiracy. The higher the price of BTC is, the easier it is for money launderers to use it. Think of this, if you want to launder 1 million US dollars, would it be easier for you to launder via BTC if it was at 10 dollars or at 10,000 dollars?

I don't think it actually matters

At least, as long as we talk about the same amount of fiat money (US dollars, euro, yuans, etc). Really, 10,000 dollars will remain 10,000 dollars no matter what Bitcoin price might be. In other words, you don't need to launder bitcoins themselves since they are of no particular use on their own. You can't do much with them (if only gamble them away). You can multiply the coins through trading or other investments but to use them in real life you will still have to convert your bitcoins to fiat first. And this is where the size begins to matter

Of course it does matter. The value of your fiat would depend on it. If you want to launder millions, which in most cases the amounts are, a higher BTC price will not cause any spikes in volatility as compared to when its lower. Pumping millions in and then getting them out will abruptly make the price go up and down.

I think the reality is not quite in line with what you think

Higher prices usually mean there is less supply, that's the reason behind prices rising (apart from demand inflating, of course). The higher prices we see today are in great degree due to July reward halving now taking full effect (i.e. supply side contracting). In other words, with prices rising markets become thinner in general, and it is even truer in case of Bitcoin (since folks right now prefer holding to active trading and selling). So your millions of dollars will cause higher volatility (in both relative and absolute terms) with high prices and low supply in contrast with low prices and high supply

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[pseexh]

Current mild upward trend of bitcoin markets, is making me think that we may see an end of China dictating and slowing bitcoin by holding the price down.
Top 3 Chinese exchanges stopped withdrawals of BTC/LTC - normally this would cause huge uproar, chaos and panic sell. So why we are not seeing any decline?
But instead price is slowly gaining momentum?

Probably yes, but it would also be logical to think that the increase can be brought about precisely due to the impossibility of that they can make withdrawals of their funds which has led to a sudden drop in offer elsewhere, this coupled with the perspective of confidence that exists to maintain those levels.

China has the largest share of the hashing power when it comes to mining bitcoin and that gives us the general idea of how much it can control the price of the bitcoin because it all depends on their miners and how much are they willing to go before releasing those coins, the market is on high demand right now that is why the price is high these days.

Yes, you are right, China is a leader in the production of Bitcoin. In addition, China's stock exchanges was a big turnover cryptocurrency. But the Chinese government is now a negative attitude to Bitcoins. And I think if Bitcoin is banned in China, this is a very negative impact on its price

[pinkflower]

I have read alot about China this and China that but I really dont understand why it has to be like that. Even if they have the farms over there, I believe its other countries that are even giving them the way because of the strict attitude towards bitcoin by other countries. How on earth can one country be deciding the direction of a currency that is even used all over the world. How I wish bitcoin can be strong enough to deflate all sorts of news coming from that end

Welcome to the US dollar, bro

Heres what I think on the whole PBOC keeping BTC below 1000 US dollars conspiracy. The higher the price of BTC is, the easier it is for money launderers to use it. Think of this, if you want to launder 1 million US dollars, would it be easier for you to launder via BTC if it was at 10 dollars or at 10,000 dollars?

I don't think it actually matters

At least, as long as we talk about the same amount of fiat money (US dollars, euro, yuans, etc). Really, 10,000 dollars will remain 10,000 dollars no matter what Bitcoin price might be. In other words, you don't need to launder bitcoins themselves since they are of no particular use on their own. You can't do much with them (if only gamble them away). You can multiply the coins through trading or other investments but to use them in real life you will still have to convert your bitcoins to fiat first. And this is where the size begins to matter

Of course it does matter. The value of your fiat would depend on it. If you want to launder millions, which in most cases the amounts are, a higher BTC price will not cause any spikes in volatility as compared to when its lower. Pumping millions in and then getting them out will abruptly make the price go up and down.

I think the reality is not quite in line with what you think

Higher prices usually mean there is less supply, that's the reason behind prices rising (apart from demand inflating, of course). The higher prices we see today are in great degree due to July reward halving now taking full effect (i.e. supply side contracting). In other words, with prices rising markets become thinner in general, and it is even truer in case of Bitcoin (since folks right now prefer holding to active trading and selling). So your millions of dollars will cause higher volatility (in both relative and absolute terms) with high prices and low supply in contrast with low prices and high supply

I think youre wrong. Lets pretend BTC reached 10,000 US dollars. Are you saying that those super high BTC markets are now so thin, a slight push up will bring the price easily to 15,000 dollars with a less than a million in volume? Explain to me how that is so.

[Sanekavg13]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

[LittleBitFunny]

Well for one thing Chinese people own most of the mining power.  I would say that they want there to be less demand for other people to mine because the price is lower, when in fact they're going to push it up later through friendlier stances to Bitcoin.  There's also the matter of buying Bitcoin -I think China wants the price to be low to continue buying Bitcoin, which is why they keep scaremongering about their position on it, but their influence on the price is getting lower each time as investors are becoming more aware, like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf".

Eventually they're going to change their position to Bitcoin and make it friendly.  Then the price will go way up because there'll be less doubt.

[Barbut]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

There is a lot of Chinese generally, that is all about. There is more Chinese then Americans and Europeans together. Of course their impact is bigger then impact of my county with barely 8 million people, it`s like small village in China. I think here we talk just about number if people using bitcoin in some country, 1 % in my country and 1 % in China is big difference, they are huge and they will have one of important roles in bitcoin community.

Eventually they're going to change their position to Bitcoin and make it friendly.  Then the price will go way up because there'll be less doubt.

I would not call China a communist country, even they technically are communists. therefore it will be interesting what kind of laws they will create about bitcoin, and blockchain.

[deisik]

I think the reality is not quite in line with what you think

Higher prices usually mean there is less supply, that's the reason behind prices rising (apart from demand inflating, of course). The higher prices we see today are in great degree due to July reward halving now taking full effect (i.e. supply side contracting). In other words, with prices rising markets become thinner in general, and it is even truer in case of Bitcoin (since folks right now prefer holding to active trading and selling). So your millions of dollars will cause higher volatility (in both relative and absolute terms) with high prices and low supply in contrast with low prices and high supply

I think youre wrong. Lets pretend BTC reached 10,000 US dollars. Are you saying that those super high BTC markets are now so thin, a slight push up will bring the price easily to 15,000 dollars with a less than a million in volume? Explain to me how that is so

In fact, I have explained it many times already, on numerous occasions

And the explanation is pretty straightforward. You obviously don't take into account two things. First, the supply of new Bitcoins is limited, and it is not just limited but it is actually diminishing due to halvings, coins lost for good, and folks stashing their coins away. Second, if the price rises, it basically means two things again, i.e. that the supply of bitcoins diminishes (which is consistent with the first point) and that the demand for bitcoins increases. Any way you look at it, you have to agree that the Bitcoin market is necessarily thinning in any of these cases. Given that, it becomes more susceptible to heavier price fluctuations simply because the same number of coins can now move the price stronger (or less number can move it for the same change in the price, in relative terms)

[pinkflower]

I get your point. According to your explanation then there might be a case in saying that BTC should have reached 10,000 US $ by now seeing the increase in demand. Yet we see rising volume on the supply side in the exchanges making the price fall. Can you explain that? The laws of supply and demand is not constantly linear. There are other forces that makes one greater than the other.

[beerlover]

Not for long china can controlling bitcoin price, im sure now they on trouble due their efforts to make the price under $ 1000 always can not last long and now all trader are smart they not easy get in on the trap.

Honestly I used to believe that China is trying to control the price when  Bitcoin price go up more than $1000 but the last two press release of PBOC does not mean that they are or in a position of wanting to control Bitcoin price.  They are just after the implementation of the law regarding money laundering and possible support to the terrorist activities.  There is no way in their announcement that they are banning or want to control bitcoin price.  they are just preparing their exchanges for a more legal way of implementing rules on the transactions of Bitcoin.

It is true that they are not controlling it directly but since the majority of the miners are located in china since mining is profitable there because of how cheap electricity is makes them the ones that affect the price in some way like if they try to make strict laws about bitcoin transactions there means they want to come back more stronger than before.

[PokerFace3]

Now I know China has been accused of keeping the price of their fiat down, so this leads me to a question.

Why would china want to keep the price of btc at or below 1000? And I'm not asking for answers around curbing the use of it, because I don't believe they want that. I'm asking for genuine thoughts on how it would benefit china to keep the price low. What long term strategy would they have? Because we all know china doesn't just do things because they want to. They've probably had meeting after meeting on how best to optimize bitcoin for their benefit.

First how sure are we that China wants to keep the price of BTC at or below $1,000?  As I think of it China don't care about BTC, as the way you wanted to hear it, they only want to make sure that these exchanges that had been loose for some years to follow what the rule stated with regards to AML and  KYC stuff.  It is that these market manipulator take advantage of the news and twist the idea to suit what they wanted to the price of BTC.

yes these are just assumptions and there is no reality about this. in fact the it in is now become very difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin. because the number of bitcoin users are now increasing. therefore it is now become difficult for a single person or a group of people to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

Yes, I also do not think that Chinese are responsible for affecting the price of bitcoin. Although the number  and investors of bitcoin are more in China may be more than any other country of the world but I think now I think rest of world also having competitive traders and investors hence no one can influence in one direction nor manipulate the price of bitcoins.

[Ayers]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

i also believe this, because without miners there is no bitcoin, and to make miners keep running you need to give them the profit, which mean that bitcoin must have a certain profit to help their investment that is growing and that is securing the network, but the today value imho, is also related to bitcoin growing in the world and better adoption not only mining

[bajing]

Now I know China has been accused of keeping the price of their fiat down, so this leads me to a question.

Why would china want to keep the price of btc at or below 1000? And I'm not asking for answers around curbing the use of it, because I don't believe they want that. I'm asking for genuine thoughts on how it would benefit china to keep the price low. What long term strategy would they have? Because we all know china doesn't just do things because they want to. They've probably had meeting after meeting on how best to optimize bitcoin for their benefit.

First how sure are we that China wants to keep the price of BTC at or below $1,000?  As I think of it China don't care about BTC, as the way you wanted to hear it, they only want to make sure that these exchanges that had been loose for some years to follow what the rule stated with regards to AML and  KYC stuff.  It is that these market manipulator take advantage of the news and twist the idea to suit what they wanted to the price of BTC.

yes these are just assumptions and there is no reality about this. in fact the it in is now become very difficult to manipulate the price of bitcoin. because the number of bitcoin users are now increasing. therefore it is now become difficult for a single person or a group of people to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

Yes, I also do not think that Chinese are responsible for affecting the price of bitcoin. Although the number  and investors of bitcoin are more in China may be more than any other country of the world but I think now I think rest of world also having competitive traders and investors hence no one can influence in one direction nor manipulate the price of bitcoins.

Slowly investor from china will lost their bicoin and they always try to dump the price but it will not success due bitcoin user are waiting ETF aprroved to see the higher price.

[deisik]

I get your point. According to your explanation then there might be a case in saying that BTC should have reached 10,000 US $ by now seeing the increase in demand. Yet we see rising volume on the supply side in the exchanges making the price fall. Can you explain that? The laws of supply and demand is not constantly linear. There are other forces that makes one greater than the other

Sorry for the delay in answering your post

You seem to forget what you had been claiming and what specifically I was challenging. I didn't say that the price should be rising. All I said is that with markets thinning the Bitcoin volatility should increase. But volatility doesn't mean that price should necessarily increase. It means that price can as easily rise as drop. That's basically the major effect of growth in volatility, i.e. wider price swings, up and down. And this is pretty much consistent with prices falling, though it doesn't always mean that the supply of bitcoins increased in absolute terms, it just means that less increase is required for both supply and demand to move the price in either direction

[AUDREY23]

Now I know China has been accused of keeping the price of their fiat down, so this leads me to a question.

Why would china want to keep the price of btc at or below 1000? And I'm not asking for answers around curbing the use of it, because I don't believe they want that. I'm asking for genuine thoughts on how it would benefit china to keep the price low. What long term strategy would they have? Because we all know china doesn't just do things because they want to. They've probably had meeting after meeting on how best to optimize bitcoin for their benefit.

yes it's business, sometimes to sacrifice anyone, but China does not seem to be like that, chances china can indeed keep prices for users bitcoin there very much when compared to other countries, it seems to Total Project; ah multiple users, then the price could be on tap.
I was just thinking just take good ok

[deisik]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

i also believe this, because without miners there is no bitcoin, and to make miners keep running you need to give them the profit, which mean that bitcoin must have a certain profit to help their investment that is growing and that is securing the network, but the today value imho, is also related to bitcoin growing in the world and better adoption not only mining

There will always be miners and mining will always remain profitable, no matter what the price of Bitcoin might be (or fall to). It is a bit counterintuitive (I understand that), but if Bitcoin price fell twice or thrice for long enough, it could actually help the coin in the long run by throwing away the best part of today's miners, though it would be a hard blow to many Bitcoin users, of course. The premise for this assumption is that right now current Bitcoin miners have become an insurmountable hurdle on the road to future Bitcoin development and improvement. I can certainly see the frustration of people designing and developing SegWit and LN updates

And how much effort (and time) would be wasted if these updates won't get accepted eventually

[BigBall]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

i also believe this, because without miners there is no bitcoin, and to make miners keep running you need to give them the profit, which mean that bitcoin must have a certain profit to help their investment that is growing and that is securing the network, but the today value imho, is also related to bitcoin growing in the world and better adoption not only mining

Yea they have a really great impact but they will not have anymore because bitcoin is more and more popular in Europe and there are many projects with bitcoin with which Europe will have bigger affect to bitcoin then China.I know this because I know some really important businessmanns and I am also one of them.

[hurain]

Not for long china can controlling bitcoin price, im sure now they on trouble due their efforts to make the price under $ 1000 always can not last long and now all trader are smart they not easy get in on the trap.

Honestly I used to believe that China is trying to control the price when  Bitcoin price go up more than $1000 but the last two press release of PBOC does not mean that they are or in a position of wanting to control Bitcoin price.  They are just after the implementation of the law regarding money laundering and possible support to the terrorist activities.  There is no way in their announcement that they are banning or want to control bitcoin price.  they are just preparing their exchanges for a more legal way of implementing rules on the transactions of Bitcoin.

It is true that they are not controlling it directly but since the majority of the miners are located in china since mining is profitable there because of how cheap electricity is makes them the ones that affect the price in some way like if they try to make strict laws about bitcoin transactions there means they want to come back more stronger than before.

i think not only China but even not any other country have any control over bitcoin, and from time to time it is becoming more and more difficult to control bitcoin because its users are increasing continuously through out the world.

[RoommateAgreement]

I am sure that the Chinese miners have a great impact on Bitcoin. The price is related to the complexity of Bitcoin mining, and extract him most in China

i also believe this, because without miners there is no bitcoin, and to make miners keep running you need to give them the profit, which mean that bitcoin must have a certain profit to help their investment that is growing and that is securing the network, but the today value imho, is also related to bitcoin growing in the world and better adoption not only mining

Yea they have a really great impact but they will not have anymore because bitcoin is more and more popular in Europe and there are many projects with bitcoin with which Europe will have bigger affect to bitcoin then China.I know this because I know some really important businessmanns and I am also one of them.

i don't know if you are joking or not but you really don't need to be someone to know that China is not big and no other country can control bitcoin. it is just because they have a lot of hash rate and their share of the mining hashrate has been shrinking for a while because other places like Georgia is coming into mining scene with lots of hashrate.

[CyberKuro]

Now I know China has been accused of keeping the price of their fiat down, so this leads me to a question.

Keeping their fiat (CNY) down? Where did you read about this? It seems against economics rules to make their own currency rise up.

Why would china want to keep the price of btc at or below 1000? And I'm not asking for answers around curbing the use of it, because I don't believe they want that. I'm asking for genuine thoughts on how it would benefit china to keep the price low. What long term strategy would they have? Because we all know china doesn't just do things because they want to. They've probably had meeting after meeting on how best to optimize bitcoin for their benefit.

Are they ever state to keep bitcoin price below $1000? Because I don't think China will do that, not them (govs) but their citizens/bitcoiners/miners which sell out their bitcoin at higher price to get profits I guess. If China government wants to invest on bitcoin, they might be want to buy it at cheaper price and waiting for years to get decent profits.

[bravehearth0319]

Now I know China has been accused of keeping the price of their fiat down, so this leads me to a question.

Why would china want to keep the price of btc at or below 1000? And I'm not asking for answers around curbing the use of it, because I don't believe they want that. I'm asking for genuine thoughts on how it would benefit china to keep the price low. What long term strategy would they have? Because we all know china doesn't just do things because they want to. They've probably had meeting after meeting on how best to optimize bitcoin for their benefit.

I think the only reason I saw why they want it to keep it below its all about money matters. Of course once the price below 1000$ they will buy a huge volumes of bitcoin then keep and hold it til the value increase it  again.